Recommendations for a home safe ?

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by 47Fountain

About 6 months ago, I installed an in floor safe encased in concrete. It has a fair amount of internal space of two feet by 16 inches. Walls & floor are qtr inch thick solid steel, door is two inches thick on gas struts & internal hinges, Waterproof & air tight also. Dial/combination safe, no hokey digital keypad wanted. Took about 4 hours to cut the floor, dig out, line the opening in plastic & concrete in. The bottom floor kicks out three inches on the sides so it cannot be pried up out of the concrete, it's a step the concrete is poured over. I also sprayed a thick layer of cosmolene on the sides & bottom before installing. 140 lbs of concrete to finish off. Love it. Better than any bolt down safe you can ever have.

That’s a real good setup, and I mean that. BUT, you violated a major rule of security…..you posted all about it.

[TswaneNguni]

Use the safe as a decoy .

[Gab27]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Fire ratings are bogus.

I respectfully disagree. Well, with respect to UL fire ratings, at least.

If we are speaking about safes that are UL 72 class safes, these are not bogus ratings by any means. A safe with a 2 hour UL 350 (@ 1850 F) is generally going to protect the contents even in the worst of house fires (i.e., even if your house burns to the ground and is smoldering for hours). This type of safe is commonly going to use a poured composite matrix construction where the poured 'concrete' acts as a fireproofing materials that may also increase security depending on the nature of the material. For electronics, the protection can be further augmented by using an additional fire resistant container inside of the safe (e.g., protecting critical hard drives--mind you, there is also a UL rating for data safes if protecting electronics is the primary purpose of the safe.)

A lot of less expensive safes use ratings other than UL ratings. These may use different testing methodologies that generally are easier for the safe to pass. They may use lower external and internal test temps. They may measure the temps differently. Most of these safes are using fireboard and not a poured composite matrix--this is a much less desirable means of construction and the nature of how it works has some big downsides. It's questionable how these safes would perform in a fire.

Originally Posted by Blansky

In my opinion safes are merely the illusion of safe.

I also respectfully disagree.

[MrGoat]

https://sarasota.craigslist.org/hvo/...331288080.html https://sarasota.craigslist.org/hvo/...331286380.html


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[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Gab27

I respectfully disagree. Well, with respect to UL fire ratings, at least.

If we are speaking about safes that are UL 72 class safes, these are not bogus ratings by any means. A safe with a 2 hour UL 350 (@ 1850 F) is generally going to protect the contents even in the worst of house fires (i.e., even if your house burns to the ground and is smoldering for hours). This type of safe is commonly going to use a poured composite matrix construction where the poured 'concrete' acts as a fireproofing materials that may also increase security depending on the nature of the material. For electronics, the protection can be further augmented by using an additional fire resistant container inside of the safe (e.g., protecting critical hard drives--mind you, there is also a UL rating for data safes if protecting electronics is the primary purpose of the safe.)

A lot of less expensive safes use ratings other than UL ratings. These may use different testing methodologies that generally are easier for the safe to pass. They may use lower external and internal test temps. They may measure the temps differently. Most of these safes are using fireboard and not a poured composite matrix--this is a much less desirable means of construction and the nature of how it works has some big downsides. It's questionable how these safes would perform in a fire.

During the fires we had in Northern California a couple of years ago there were a lot of reports of people's safes not being able to withstand the intense heat and duration.

Perhaps in a "normal" house fire where the fire truck is there in a few minutes the ratings were working but in the California fires, there was major heat, houses (and bodies) burnt to ash, with nothing left but a standing fireplace, and people couldn't get back into the area for days. And one reason people weren't let back in because each house had to have the ashes sifted for human remains, because even bones were ash.

I think people believe that with a fire rated safe everything will be fine but many people found that all that was inside was also ash.

Possibly these are extreme cases and people didn't realize that the ratings wouldn't handle it but in reality one minute their house is standing and 5 minutes later it's just ash. And 5000 of their neighbors were the same. Reports of the fire temperatures were in and around 2000 degrees F.

I think a lot of so called safety measures are just illusion and give people a false sense of security.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Blansky

During the fires we had in Northern California a couple of years ago there were a lot of reports of people's safes not being able to withstand the intense heat and duration.

Perhaps in a "normal" house fire where the fire truck is there in a few minutes the ratings were working but in the California fires, there was major heat, houses (and bodies) burnt to ash, with nothing left but a standing fireplace, and people couldn't get back into the area for days. And one reason people weren't let back in because each house had to have the ashes sifted for human remains, because even bones were ash.

I think people believe that with a fire rated safe everything will be fine but many people found that all that was inside was also ash.

Possibly these are extreme cases and people didn't realize that the ratings wouldn't handle it but in reality one minute their house is standing and 5 minutes later it's just ash. And 5000 of their neighbors were the same. Reports of the fire temperatures were in and around 2000 degrees F.

I think a lot of so called safety measures are just illusion and give people a false sense of security.

My cousin is a battalion chief, and he tells me that they don’t give a rat’s ass about your safe….which more often than not, is a box full of ash by the time the fire is fully extinguished.

[Gab27]

Originally Posted by Blansky

During the fires we had in Northern California a couple of years ago there were a lot of reports of people's safes not being able to withstand the intense heat and duration.

Perhaps in a "normal" house fire where the fire truck is there in a few minutes the ratings were working but in the California fires, there was major heat, houses (and bodies) burnt to ash, with nothing left but a standing fireplace, and people couldn't get back into the area for days. And one reason people weren't let back in because each house had to have the ashes sifted for human remains, because even bones were ash.

I think people believe that with a fire rated safe everything will be fine but many people found that all that was inside was also ash.

Possibly these are extreme cases and people didn't realize that the ratings wouldn't handle it but in reality one minute their house is standing and 5 minutes later it's just ash. And 5000 of their neighbors were the same. Reports of the fire temperatures were in and around 2000 degrees F.

I think a lot of so called safety measures are just illusion and give people a false sense of security.

I would consider that a more extreme case. You're right that there is often an underlying assumption that fire resistance = effectively completely fire proof, which of course is not the case at all. Can a safe provide a false sense of security? Sure. So can a lot of other things, such as locks on your front door. But I would argue that a safe does also provide real protection against many contingencies--especially if you are selecting the right products for the right situations. It doesn't protect against everything, but pick the right one and it can protect against a lot.

UL-rated fire safes can survive pretty bad fire conditions. Here is an example of a 2-hour UL72 safe surviving a total loss of the house and being exposed to 8+ hours of fire and several hours of cool down. Pics are not mine and they come from a forum dedicated to sporting activities. There are safes with significantly more fire protection than this available, but this particular model is a very affordable safe using modern construction techniques that result in good fire and good burglary performance. As you can see, the safe performed quite well. If you had $100,000 worth of Rolexes in there, they would have survived and probably just needed an overhaul. (Edit - Electronics almost certainly would not have survived this situation, but this safe is a UL 350, and so it is not intended to protect electronics.)

[hcivic91]

Haven’t seen it said so thought I’d add my thoughts.

Step #1: Insurance
Step #2: Safe

Once everything is insured you can decide how serious of a safe you want. I prefer something relatively concealed but very easy for me to access. It isn’t high security but I use it. It keeps honest people honest and if robber makes off with it well, who really cares as the contents are insured.

Finally, for me, insurance and servicing costs are part of the purchase decision.

Hope this helps your decision.

[Colleen11]

I bought a fireproof safe FPSD66 from tigerking safe for $290. I usually put some jewelry and cash. It may not be suitable for everyone, but it is enough for me.

[Gladiat0r]

Only recommendation is to always get bigger than you think you need.

[JoeJoeBobo]

First and only post on a watch forum was to reopen a 1 1/2 year old thread about safes.

Classic

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBobo

First and only post on a watch forum was to reopen a 1 1/2 year old thread about safes.

Classic

Okay, but just because it's an older thread doesn't make the information itself outdated or irrelevant.

There's always that option of not posting if you don't like the thread or what the poster chose to do.

[Carguy87]

Well since we’ve brought this one back from the dead lol my recommendation (at least for US customers or anywhere they are sold) is a Fort Knox vault. Can be custom ordered with different thicknesses and fire ratings, and the fit/finish and quality are top notch. Have had mine for 2+ years and I couldn’t be happier with it. As has been said get bigger than you think you need; it fills up fast!

[Andy0331]

Originally Posted by Greg 59

Steer well clear of the brands you see in hotel rooms. They can be opened with a coat hanger

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I think "hotel safes" are excellent decoys. Place them in a relatively common area (bedroom/office closet) and leave some valuables (a few hundred in cash, unimportant papers, old checkbook, etc) in there. Let a thief have an easy win & leave quickly. This can work in both a regular burglary or armed home invasion.

Give it up & get them out! For 99% of us, anything truly valuable should first be well hidden, before considering how secure. Don't give anyone a reason to scour your house top to bottom.

That said, if you're in the 1% that would get hit by true pros, you need to spend enough to delay them for as long as possible. TR/TL30 or greater, excellent alarm, with backup and so on.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by dddrees

okay, but just because it's an older thread doesn't make the information itself outdated or irrelevant.

There's always that option of not posting if you don't like the thread or what the poster chose to do.

+1

[Jack T]

Originally Posted by dddrees

Okay, but just because it's an older thread doesn't make the information itself outdated or irrelevant.

There's always that option of not posting if you don't like the thread or what the poster chose to do.

I don’t see how he expressed dislike for the thread or what the poster chose to do. It was merely an observation about what is, indisputably, a peculiar first and only post.

[Rbdport]

Decide what the safe is for…is it for deterrence or preservation. Those are not necessarily compatible goals. If you are looking to deter the unskilled thief (and the vast majority are unskilled) then any safe that fits your designated space will work. Bolt it down. If your goal is preservation (think high risk fire zones) then your options are more limited and you may need to consider a multifaceted approach that will give HOURS of protection (sprinkler system, high fire rating, etc.)

As with most things….location, location, location. If your goal is deterrence, a lighter weight, less expensive safe may meet your needs if it is inconveniently placed (it was a pain in the ass for you and 6 of your best friends to get it there) and it is bolted down. If your goal is preservation, you may need to consider a purpose built space.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Jack T

I don’t see how he expressed dislike for the thread or what the poster chose to do. It was merely an observation about what is, indisputably, a peculiar first and only post.

I saw it slightly differently I guess.

It's an open forum on the internet, people do that as they come across information randomly and often don't mind sharing their opinion. Who cares since he didn't violate any rules anyway. Besides I think a good number of old threads have some very valuable information and are worth another go. In my opinion this one is a perfect example of that. Appears a few felt the same way since they decided to participate regardless of it's age.

Besides participation regardless as long as it doesn't break any rules should be encouraged anyway. Who knows how many of those just stopping by might be encouraged to participate in our little community. That new blood is actually the lifeline of a forum such as this.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by dddrees

I saw it slightly differently I guess.

It's an open forum on the internet, people do that as they come across information randomly and often don't mind sharing their opinion. Who cares since he didn't violate any rules anyway. Besides I think a good number of old threads have some very valuable information and are worth another go. IN my opinion this one is a perfect example of that. Appears a few felt the same way since they decided to participate regardless of it's age.

Besides participation regardless as long as it doesn't break any rules should be encouraged anyway. Who knows how many of those just stopping by might be encouraged to participate in our little community. That new blood is actually the lifeline of a forum such as this.

I agree 100%

[CFR]

Originally Posted by Jack T

I don’t see how he expressed dislike for the thread or what the poster chose to do. It was merely an observation about what is, indisputably, a peculiar first and only post.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. Adding the 2 emojis and the word "Classic" took it well beyond "merely an observation." I saw it as an obnoxious, unnecessary post by a new member here -- the kind of snark that adds zero value and detracts from collegiality and community. Glad people are calling this out publicly and hope that behavior continues.

[cm10005]

I second Fort Knox

[Gab27]

I'm just happy we have an active thread about safes.

If you ask me, one could not pick a better topic for their premiere post.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by cm10005

I second Fort Knox

I’m a big fan of Browning Pro Steel Safes. Not only because they have a TL-30 which the popular Liberty Safes do not but because Browning has one of the best configurable interiors in the business. Once you’ve met your security needs you’re going to quickly recognize your going to have to figure how you’re actually going to store those items in that safe.

In my opinion a little planning prior to purchase that safe would be best. Browning really has a pretty good system which is much better than the typical industry standard which most other safes both cheaper and most more expensive safes do not.

The only issue is their shelves are now much more expensive since Covid, but I’m lucky I bought mine mostly before Covid. They come with a standard config but I’ve purchased shelves based on what I store in my safe. Their shelves are made from steel with a rubberized coating and work and adjust just like refrigerator shelving. Extremely strong and a good number of different types available.

I think their pricing might be just a tad more than Liberty but given their storage system and how good it is to include it being extremely configurable with so many different options I would highly recommend Browning over most others any day of the week.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Gab27

I'm just happy we have an active thread about safes.

If you ask me, one could not pick a better topic for their premiere post.

Your posts are always very informative.

Thanks

[BLACKHORSE 6]

A family friend and mentor of mine passed recently. He had an old Remington safe that his family is gifting me as they are cleaning out his belongings. I tried to give them a few hundred dollars but they refused, as they just want it gone. Not sure about the security of the safe, but the size is exactly what I need and you can’t beat the price.

[ExplorerI]

Vast majority of consumer “safes” are just glorified lock boxes. Insurance should be your first layer of protection because any thief with basic tools can brute force their way into most safes you find in homes in about 45 seconds.

[Cliffnopus]

I have a Liberty safe for all my firearms. The fire rating is not that good so I purchased a locked fireproof document box that fits in the bottom of the Liberty safe.

[BLACKHORSE 6]

Originally Posted by Cliffnopus

I have a Liberty safe for all my firearms. The fire rating is not that good so I purchased a locked fireproof document box that fits in the bottom of the Liberty safe.

This is going to be my solution as well.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by ExplorerI

Vast majority of consumer “safes” are just glorified lock boxes. Insurance should be your first layer of protection because any thief with basic tools can brute force their way into most safes you find in homes in about 45 seconds.

I would think that would be more true for those big box store things they call safes in the under $1000 price range.

[rlj676]

A good safe for my watches and other “items” is long on my to do list. However the expense and hassle has me ending up with a hiding and insurance strategy.

Sorta wild as well that people jump on someone making a joke about a pretty obvious spam post. If someone posts a brand/store price and great satisfaction with it and little else as first, and only, post how does it not seem like someone googling safe discussions to do this exact thing. In most forums this is obvious, yet here making a joke about it gets attacked lol. How is that more civil than the first joke?