End of Crypto?

[huncho]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Admittedly not knowing much about this, how would he protect against the wild swings in the daily crypto price?

Maybe for folks like me who don’t understand this crypto stuff you could dumb it down

Using a watch that he’s selling for say $20K usd, am I correct in saying I’d pay him one Bitcoin and the extra in cash, or something like that?

I’m just trying to understand how it works is all. Thank you

bitcoin can be divided fractionally to an extremely small amount. you don't have to send full numbers or buy full numbers. the smallest amount you can send is 0.00000001 BTC

theoretically what i imagine happens is a watch is listed for 20k, you get sent an invoice that has a locked btc to usd value for a specific amount of time, lets say 1 hour. as of this minute that value would be $16970 so you'd have to send about 1.18 btc. once you send it they should see it within minutes and it would be fully confirmed maybe 10-15 mins later (versus a wire that confirms a day later). they then have some kind of process that converts the btc to usd (it can be done within bitpay or other wallet apps). the bigger greys might be able to keep a % of that btc as an investment, i guess it depends on their cash flow. crm said they do that though

[INC]

I called that kind of thing as gambling and not trading.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by huncho

bitcoin can be divided fractionally to an extremely small amount. you don't have to send full numbers or buy full numbers. the smallest amount you can send is 0.00000001 BTC

theoretically what i imagine happens is a watch is listed for 20k, you get sent an invoice that has a locked btc to usd value for a specific amount of time, lets say 1 hour. as of this minute that value would be $16970 so you'd have to send about 1.18 btc. once you send it they should see it within minutes and it would be fully confirmed maybe 10-15 mins later (versus a wire that confirms a day later). they then have some kind of process that converts the btc to usd (it can be done within bitpay or other wallet apps). the bigger greys might be able to keep a % of that btc as an investment, i guess it depends on their cash flow. crm said they do that though

Thank you. Starting to understand this better

[SDGT3]

If you want to know the real value of crypto, ask Bankman-Freed's lawyers what kind of payment they accepted on retainer to represent him.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by huncho

bitcoin can be divided fractionally to an extremely small amount. you don't have to send full numbers or buy full numbers. the smallest amount you can send is 0.00000001 BTC

theoretically what i imagine happens is a watch is listed for 20k, you get sent an invoice that has a locked btc to usd value for a specific amount of time, lets say 1 hour. as of this minute that value would be $16970 so you'd have to send about 1.18 btc. once you send it they should see it within minutes and it would be fully confirmed maybe 10-15 mins later (versus a wire that confirms a day later). they then have some kind of process that converts the btc to usd (it can be done within bitpay or other wallet apps). the bigger greys might be able to keep a % of that btc as an investment, i guess it depends on their cash flow. crm said they do that though

Thanks for this info.

[joeychitwood]

I saw Sam Bankman-Fried interviewed today on the morning news shows in the US. I'm frankly surprised that he could keep a neighborhood Dungeons and Dragons game going in his mom's basement, much less lead a world financial revolution. The more I see of the debacle, the more amazed I am that cryptocurrency actually exists.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

I saw Sam Bankman-Fried interviewed today on the morning news shows in the US. I'm frankly surprised that he could keep a neighborhood Dungeons and Dragons game going in his mom's basement, much less lead a world financial revolution. The more I see of the debacle, the more amazed I am that cryptocurrency actually exists.

That's precisely what they want you to think. Everything is not what it seems. He knows exactly what he was doing, who he was doing it for, and obviously what the repercussions would be (which mysteriously don't seem too bad for him.)

[superdog]

I’m seeing SBF everywhere right now.

I guess we are still talking about it.

Will be something if he doesn’t pay for this somehow.

[huncho]

guy is just running around like he did nothing wrong. that entire interview was cringeworthy. "look, i've had a bad month" *entire crowd laughs*...like yeah it's hilarious that he blew up 16b of people's funds + VC money through a ponzi scheme. i can't believe he even has the balls to talk about his "future" and how it's not the end for him. he's definitely made his deals already imo

[77T]

It was different than a Ponzi scheme - nobody was paid from subsequent investors. SBF simply converted funds for his own purposes.

Theft by conversion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[huncho]

Originally Posted by 77T

It was different than a Ponzi scheme - nobody was paid from subsequent investors. SBF simply converted funds for his own purposes.

Theft by conversion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

i wouldn't be surprised if they were faking their high yields, referrals and endorsements through a ponzi though, but yeah you're right for the most part

[GB-man]

Somebody finna Epstein this cat just watch.

[BLACKHORSE 6]

Originally Posted by 77T

It was different than a Ponzi scheme - nobody was paid from subsequent investors. SBF simply converted funds for his own purposes.

Theft by conversion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

This

SBF is blaming the whole the fact that FTX lost so much money on poor risk management. That’s no doubt true… but the reason they had so much money to lose was because FTX was converting/transferring customer funds. He does a pretty good job on not answering questions about that.

[INC]

Not a big deal, but this is the day when the myth of BTC being a good long-term investment was shattered.

[TRS1]

Originally Posted by huncho

guy is just running around like he did nothing wrong. that entire interview was cringeworthy. "look, i've had a bad month" *entire crowd laughs*...like yeah it's hilarious that he blew up 16b of people's funds + VC money through a ponzi scheme. i can't believe he even has the balls to talk about his "future" and how it's not the end for him. he's definitely made his deals already imo

The crowd laughing at this clown really got to me too. If he were on the other side they would not be laughing. Also, make sure you report that $601 to IRS but this guy can forget about what happened to 10 billion no problem.

[Vince M.]

Originally Posted by TRS1

The crowd laughing at this clown really got to me too. If he were on the other side they would not be laughing. Also, make sure you report that $601 to IRS but this guy can forget about what happened to 10 billion no problem.

The money went into "their" personal pockets. It's a victimless crime as far as they are concerned.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by INC

Not a big deal, but this is the day when the myth of BTC being a good long-term investment was shattered.

funny, if you posted this 1 or 2 weeks ago it would say it's +100%, that's the problem with cherry picking dates. it was 8k in nov 2017 and 4k in sept/oct 2017. tons of stocks are in the same position and back to 2017-18 prices. time will tell but if it's still around this price in march/april 2023, that 5Y will say +100% or +150% and that wasn't even the bottom, it would still go down another 50-60%

Originally Posted by TRS1

The crowd laughing at this clown really got to me too. If he were on the other side they would not be laughing. Also, make sure you report that $601 to IRS but this guy can forget about what happened to 10 billion no problem.

yeah it's really sad actually

[JoeJoeBobo]

Originally Posted by huncho

funny, if you posted this 1 or 2 weeks ago it would say it's +100%, that's the problem with cherry picking dates. it was 8k in nov 2017 and 4k in sept/oct 2017. tons of stocks are in the same position and back to 2017-18 prices. time will tell but if it's still around this price in march/april 2023, that 5Y will say +100% or +150% and that wasn't even the bottom, it would still go down another 50-60%



yeah it's really sad actually

Also guarantee none of those laughing in audience were people who lost money on that trash!

Theft and lies are acceptable when committed by those in on the side of power. The New York Times should ashamed of themselves but they aren’t!

[Star Ferry]

I think NY Times doesn’t represent NY much, save for the self-styled trust fund cosmopolites and intelligentsia. A lot of NYers would prefer the NY Daily News or NY Post. The NYT primary audience are non-affluent out of towners. These are people that like to read about political and cultural topics, e.g., public school teachers and government employees.

Their stance on Sam Bankman-Fried only makes sense in the context of who their customers are — folks who like to pretend to be detached intellectual observers, but are mostly not particularly smart, well connected, or impressive. It’s all about feeling superior and taking in some cute “food for thought.” The NYT does not exist to convey meaningful information anymore, assuming they ever did. Any journalist worth their salt would have been very tough on that kid.

[INC]

Originally Posted by huncho

funny, if you posted this 1 or 2 weeks ago it would say it's +100%, that's the problem with cherry picking dates.

You are right, I know it will show 100% or 150% again in just a few days.

It was simply interesting to me that the price is now lower than it was 5 years ago. For this reason, I simply wanted to point out why I think that BTC is very far away from an inflation-free investment, even in nominal terms. You can win or lose money on this, but in my humble opinion it will be nothing more than a high-risk gamble which is waiting for the new amateurs who want to win against the pros in the casino.

[macrowatch]

I think the correct delineation is that BTC was nice when in an inflationary environment AND zero interest rates.

And pretty crappy in an inflationary environment AND high interest rates.

I like Matt Lavine's take where he observes crypto as an industry is having to rediscover the basics of finance. I interpret that as somewhat re-inventing the wheel, e.g. why interest is paid on deposits, where there are middlepeople, centralized excahnges, etc.

Oh well. On to 2023.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by superdog

Just saw the news about FTX and Binance. Watching BTC tank right now.

And the markets appear to all be tied together these days.

This could get really bad, really fast.

Crazy thing is without the regulation, those trying to sell their crypto now might not even get paid. Wow, this could get crazy.

Crypto has been dead for years Seth and why I have been mentioning so frequently here of the years. It’s been a Ponzi in waiting with no transparency and pending regulatory risk. Besides all the celebs that were manipulating markets with pump and dump. Crypto has always been about opportunistic scams in waiting imo at least.

[Romeojk]

Just saw this pop up on my phone

Some Jim Cramer advice.

[enjoythemusic]

Yes, please have all 'investment banks' and Wall Street traders exit crypto. Ever since they decided to join the party THEY really made a mess of things. Besides the typical empty threats of regulation, crypto was doing reasonably well before the financial types got involved. In some ways, it just proves the ongoing problems we see in the stock market. So yes, if you are a Wall Street type or Banker please exit crypto asap. Let's see meaningful regulation banning them from using crypto.

Thank you :)

[aczaja10]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Yes, please have all 'investment banks' and Wall Street traders exit crypto. Ever since they decided to join the party THEY really made a mess of things. Besides the typical empty threats of regulation, crypto was doing reasonably well before the financial types got involved. In some ways, it just proves the ongoing problems we see in the stock market. So yes, if you are a Wall Street type or Banker please exit crypto asap. Let's see meaningful regulation banning them from using crypto.

Thank you :)

Not sure what to believe about crypto. On the surface, your comments appear to be true. But, is this pure coincidence? Or did more people becoming involved in crypto, including Wall Street types pushing for regulation, help bring to light its dirty little secrets?

Every time I think about crypto, I keep thinking of those get rich quick schemes where everyone would meet at those hotel conventions.

[Atone]

Originally Posted by aczaja10

Not sure what to believe about crypto. On the surface, your comments appear to be true. But, is this pure coincidence? Or did more people becoming involved in crypto, including Wall Street types pushing for regulation, help bring to light its dirty little secrets?

Every time I think about crypto, I keep thinking of those get rich quick schemes where everyone would meet at those hotel conventions.

I used to get there early and eat all the cinnamon buns at the continental breakfast

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by aczaja10

Every time I think about crypto, I keep thinking of those get rich quick schemes where everyone would meet at those hotel conventions.

Then please avoid crypto and call your gov official to push for Wall Street types and traders to exit as well. Let's push for regulation to forbid them from speculating or 'investing' in it. This way there are no worries

[77T]

The “end”?

Well history tells us nothing ever really “ends”.

Tulip bulbs are still bought and sold for the purpose they were originally intended. The 17th century mania still teaches lessons.

Blockchain will survive - some crypto exchanges might not.

Futures trading in digital assets will survive - most of the crypto tokens might not.

Web3 may be the only thing our grandchildren remember about how blockchain improved their lives.

If we learn nothing else we should understand the leveling effect that fintech brought to markets. Firms like Robinhood disintermediated traditional online investing in fractional shares of equities and crypto.

So go plant a tulip bulb somewhere in your garden. It will not only return year after year, but will multiply and form clumps that grow bigger each year. Your single bulb will increase organically. But do not launch a new token based upon the bulb.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[904VT]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Yes, please have all 'investment banks' and Wall Street traders exit crypto. Ever since they decided to join the party THEY really made a mess of things. Besides the typical empty threats of regulation, crypto was doing reasonably well before the financial types got involved. In some ways, it just proves the ongoing problems we see in the stock market. So yes, if you are a Wall Street type or Banker please exit crypto asap. Let's see meaningful regulation banning them from using crypto.

Thank you :)

I think I’d place blame more on the celebs, elites, and other public figures that promoted pump and dump schemes with Crypto. The problem was the buyers couldn’t recognize the market manipulation because unfortunately they were for lack of a better term unsophisticated investors. Once you started seeing the comments in articles about make so and so money a day trading crypto, we knew the market was on the verge of collapse.

This is very similar to Hyman Minsky’s theory on real estate valuation phases and the introduction of a Ponzi unit. Crypto had been in Ponzi unit phase since the introduction of Ampere GPUs and the reemergence of GPU based mining. Ethereum had to move away from proof of work. It’s no coincidence that the merge happened right before the release of Ada Lovelace. The new Tensor cores would’ve put up incredible hash rates that would’ve caused destruction of prior values. What I find more interesting in the timing of the crash and GPU dump was the sanctions applied and where those GPUs where no longer allowed to be purchased. The drop in values of Cryptos was very telling about the source driving the prior returns. Imo at least.

The finance types really only touched Bitcoin, and even then barely dipped in their toes.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Then please avoid crypto and call your gov official to push for Wall Street types and traders to exit as well. Let's push for regulation to forbid them from speculating or 'investing' in it. This way there are no worries

But do you see what they did? Leave Crypto unregulated for years, allow partisan enforcement of market manipulation (Kim bad, Elon good). Results in pump and dump scheme for those not under financial oversight. Results in call to end non official cryptos. Results in demands for regulated Fed only e currency to “protect” consumers. Results in super enhanced transaction monitoring of any purchases eventually and the elimination of cash. If you want alternatives to currencies, buy hard assets or precious metals. If you want alternatives to being society that allows cash, continue buying crypto and driving the root cause they will use for the forced conversion.