Credit Cards

[Art 1]

Originally Posted by BroncoOne

First off, everyone has different needs and wants when it comes to credit card rewards.

Personally, I refuse to open an account with any bank that will not waive the annual fee. I understand that there are folks that know that they will offset the fee with rewards, but I have enough to manage without dealing with it. Of course, plenty of folks automatically are already doing things that offset, so to each his own.

I live in the northeast US and fly a lot and JetBlue dominates the market here. I use the Barclays JetBlue Plus card. I get enough points every year to pay for round trip tix for vacations -this year about $10,000 worth and got automatic Mosaic status based on spend before even getting the flight miles. That's on automatic for me.

Downside is there is no cash back, so if it matters to you, switch to using a cash back card after you max out the JetBlue card benefits.

I have never paid a fee for having a particular cc and I won’t.

[Burlington]

Originally Posted by Art 1

I have never paid a fee for having a particular cc and I won’t.

It’s not the card per say - it’s the bundled insurance packages, discounts, upgrades, lounge access etc. you’re paying for. Can all be bought as separates of course from other providers but AMEX for one have always been incredible helpful with any insurance claim made which makes their product well worth it for me.

[CashGap]

Originally Posted by Art 1

I have never paid a fee for having a particular cc and I won’t.

I pay around $2,000/year in credit card fees, about to sign my wife up for all the same cards and pay more.

If my 401k could get the same 300%+ return annually, I’d put the money there... but it doesn’t.

Still, I get the “cut off your nose to spite your face/I won’t pay a fee on some principle” argument. Heck, I know people who won’t eat at a restaurant if the drinks don’t have free refills or if the sides are priced separately or if you have to pay to park or won’t stay in any hotel that doesn’t have free breakfast. Same kind of thing.

Seems like we keep returning to the “I can’t explain it but this is costing you big time somewhere I can’t point to” argument as well.

[GoingPlaces]

Amex member since 1990, some years I make out great and others maybe not so great but no one takes better care of you than Amex when you need them. Especially when traveling.


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[BroncoOne]

Originally Posted by CashGap

I pay around $2,000/year in credit card fees, about to sign my wife up for all the same cards and pay more.

If my 401k could get the same 300%+ return annually, I’d put the money there... but it doesn’t.

Still, I get the “cut off your nose to spite your face/I won’t pay a fee on some principle” argument. Heck, I know people who won’t eat at a restaurant if the drinks don’t have free refills or if the sides are priced separately or if you have to pay to park or won’t stay in any hotel that doesn’t have free breakfast. Same kind of thing.

Seems like we keep returning to the “I can’t explain it but this is costing you big time somewhere I can’t point to” argument as well.

Banks should compete for the most premium customers. That's my "principle." Most of that other stuff I get for free anyway (insurance inlcuded on most any card) so why I should I pay a bank that wants my business to give it to them?

Banks that want your deposits offer rates that aren't publicly advertised all of the same. Same with credit facilities. You have to ask. Or pay.

Again, it comes down to what value you place on your time and what rewards you will likely use to the max value. For me it's expensive flights and JetBlue Mint seating that I get with my card. One of my business lenders offers free lounge access for keeping $X minimum deposits In high yield accounts etc. no fees.

More importantly: zero time spent thinking about it or dealing with it.

[mykii]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

Amex member since 1990, some years I make out great and others maybe not so great but no one takes better care of you than Amex when you need them.

/endthread.

This is why the Platinum card is worth it - they just look after you. I feel like its hard to find a brand that puts out a good product these days, and for me its Rolex, Amex, Alden, and a few esoteric others that no one around here would know

[Saltzy]

Originally Posted by BroncoOne

Banks should compete for the most premium customers. That's my "principle." Most of that other stuff I get for free anyway (insurance inlcuded on most any card) so why I should I pay a bank that wants my business to give it to them?

Banks that want your deposits offer rates that aren't publicly advertised all of the same. Same with credit facilities. You have to ask. Or pay.

Again, it comes down to what value you place on your time and what rewards you will likely use to the max value. For me it's expensive flights and JetBlue Mint seating that I get with my card. One of my business lenders offers free lounge access for keeping $X minimum deposits In high yield accounts etc. no fees.

More importantly: zero time spent thinking about it or dealing with it.

There would be no premium credit cards if they didn't charge an annual fee.

Most require excellent credit, meaning it's almost all people that are fiscally sound and responsible, meaning that almost all of them will pay their statement balance each month and never pay any interest. I know I personally have never paid 1 cent in interest on any CC, ever.

Chase is already losing money on the Sapphire Reserve card, which is why they needed to raise the annual fee this year.

If it was free, the entire card itself would cease to exist.

Again, it's $550, but you get the 1st $300 back in travel expenses (which I think I earned back the 1st 2 weeks of 2020 already)....plus $60 in free DoorDash (also, already cashed in). I coudn't even tell you when I needed to pay cash for a domestic flight the last 3 years, I get club access in lounges all across the globe, discounted Lyft rides, free insurance on rental cars....on and on....

I randomly just checked my statement and I was given a $13 credit back on an AirBnB I booked because of a special promotion they are having.

Etc, etc, etc.

How some people would be opposed to dropping less than $200 a year due to their percieved lack of value or simply the principle of the matter is beyond me, but to each their own.

Also, I am reminded of something my mom used to say all the time....'You get what you pay for.'

[Saltzy]

Originally Posted by Memphiis

I want it too. Where to sign in?

Easy.

Just amass a $10MM portfolio with Chase Client Services.

They'll get you one lickity split.

I still can't believe 2 people in this thread actually have one.

They are my heroes.

[Cloudchaser]

Originally Posted by mykii

/endthread.

This is why the Platinum card is worth it - they just look after you. I feel like its hard to find a brand that puts out a good product these days, and for me its Rolex, Amex, Alden, and a few esoteric others that no one around here would know

Agreed...

I pay $550/year for AMEX platinum, which some find unacceptable. However, using a few very practical card benefits, it is offset very easily. $15/month in Uber rides is $180 per year. I use it all every year. $200 in airline charges per year, and I use all of it every year. $100 per year to spend on my wife at Sak's. That's $480 real dollars (I'd be spending that money every year anyway) of the $550 fee "re-imbursed." And every fifth year, AMEX pays to renew my Global Entry...

I then use all AMEX points I acquire and transfer them to hotels and airlines (always during promotional transfer offers). By combining that with the fact that booking travel through AMEX results in myriad points multipliers, I accumulate AMEX points at a somewhat comical rate. My wife, who in the beginning mocked me for being a "points and miles whore" now really seems to enjoy her yearly free vacation that comes from nothing more than using the AMEX during normal spending. For the more OCD inclined (who never miss promo points offers or multiplier opportunities), this gamification of spending can be tremendously rewarding.

Point is, the game exists and we all pay for it anyway (prices reflect the credit card processing fees that fund this giant game), so those not participating are subsidizing my free vacations (while digging their heels in about the evils of credit). Thank you!

When used intelligently, the benefits of these cards are so undeniable as to render most opinions about their use more reflections of points ignorance than financial sense. It's like supermarket coupons, really; most people don't use them because time is money (or something), but the benefits can be rather surprising (tying grocery to gas discounts, but for one example)...given that you're spending on groceries no matter what.

If willing to spend some time to figure out the system, and maximize its use, one can easily find astounding value. If unwilling, though, it probably seems like a scam/scheme/etc. I personally enjoy the game.

[sokoloka]

Originally Posted by BroncoOne

One of my business lenders offers free lounge access for keeping $X minimum deposits In high yield accounts etc. no fees.

This is pretty interesting - national bank or local to Boston?

[Saltzy]

.

[Saltzy]

Originally Posted by Cloudchaser

Agreed...

I pay $550/year for AMEX platinum, which some find unacceptable. However, using a few very practical card benefits, it is offset very easily. $15/month in Uber rides is $180 per year. I use it all every year. $200 in airline charges per year, and I use all of it every year. $100 per year to spend on my wife at Sak's. That's $480 real dollars (I'd be spending that money every year anyway) of the $550 fee "re-imbursed." And every fifth year, AMEX pays to renew my Global Entry...

I then use all AMEX points I acquire and transfer them to hotels and airlines (always during promotional transfer offers). By combining that with the fact that booking travel through AMEX results in myriad points multipliers, I accumulate AMEX points at a somewhat comical rate. My wife, who in the beginning mocked me for being a "points and miles whore" now really seems to enjoy her yearly free vacation that comes from nothing more than using the AMEX during normal spending. For the more OCD inclined (who never miss promo points offers or multiplier opportunities), this gamification of spending can be tremendously rewarding.

Point is, the game exists and we all pay for it anyway (prices reflect the credit card processing fees that fund this giant game), so those not participating are subsidizing my free vacations (while digging their heels in about the evils of credit). Thank you!

When used intelligently, the benefits of these cards are so undeniable as to render most opinions about their use more reflections of points ignorance than financial sense. It's like supermarket coupons, really; most people don't use them because time is money (or something), but the benefits can be rather surprising (tying grocery to gas discounts, but for one example)...given that you're spending on groceries no matter what.

If willing to spend some time to figure out the system, and maximize its use, one can easily find astounding value. If unwilling, though, it probably seems like a scam/scheme/etc. I personally enjoy the game.

....well said.

It basically IS the modern day version of coupon cutting, but instead of having to sit around all day on Sunday literally clipping them out of the paper, it's just as simple as knowing what card to use (of which I have simplified down to a whopping 2 that I ever actually use for spending), activating a few memberships or redemptions (which takes approximately 5-10 minutes), paying your statement balance each month (another 5 minutes to set up the Auto-Pay function to handle each month), and deciding how to best make use of the points....which for OCD people can be fun and at the worst case is just free value to use towards stuff for those that aren't as anal and just use them casually.

Perhaps the few people here still digging their heels in on their contrarian stance should take a step back and listen to the advice of other clearly relatively successful, intelligent people here and ask themselvs if maybe....just maybe....they are in the wrong here.

[thedak]

Originally Posted by Saltzy

Perhaps the few people here still digging their heels in on their contrarian stance should take a step back and listen to the advice of other clearly relatively successful, intelligent people here and ask themselvs if maybe....just maybe....they are in the wrong here.

Ain't worth the effort.

Not hard to get your money back and a lot more outta a premium credit card.

If people can't figure it out so be it.

[BroncoOne]

Originally Posted by sokoloka

This is pretty interesting - national bank or local to Boston?

It is an international bank with locations in the northeastern US

[morglaw]

Delta Amex Reserve for sure! It's $550 annually but has both Delta and Amex Centurion lounge access if you fly Delta frequently!

[Syed117]

Originally Posted by RHIII

My go to card is my Debit card.

This thread makes me want to slam my head in my car door.

Now I’ve seen it all on TRF.


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This is one of those rare extremely uninformed "I'm so stubborn that no one can change mind even when I'm wrong" takes on TRF.

Nice.

Yes, if you treat a credit card like free money and aren't paying it off in full at the end of every month, it's terrible. However if you're able to use it like a mature human being, using a debit card over even a basic cash back card is the same as throwing money on the ground every time you make a purchase.

[Art 1]

I never knew credit cards were such a hot topic.

[christianj]

Originally Posted by BroncoOne

It is an international bank with locations in the northeastern US

Why so secretive?

[Saltzy]

Originally Posted by Art 1

I never knew credit cards were such a hot topic.

You do realize there are way more people into this stuff than luxury watches, right?

[Art 1]

Originally Posted by Saltzy

You do realize there are way more people into this stuff than luxury watches, right?

I had no idea.

[mykii]

Originally Posted by Cloudchaser

When used intelligently, the benefits of these cards are so undeniable as to render most opinions about their use more reflections of points ignorance than financial sense.

This is so on-point. I always cop flak for my Platinum card. But, at the end of the day, the $550 always made sense to me too .

[Wood&Leather]

Originally Posted by Saltzy

The biggest downside of the Amex Platinum is that I travel to Europe probably once or twice a year and it's hit or miss on whether a vendor or restaurant will accept Amex over there.

That's probably my biggest concern with moving over to Amex.

if you're traveling to europe "once or twice a year" then that would be a small knock on Amex, unless you were hoping to put a large designer clothing or watch purchase on the card. Evenso, THOSE stores usually do approve Amex.


Some cities are worse than others. For example, Paris cafes are notorious for not accepting any credit cards at all. The vast majority of those are cash only. Then there are places like the UK where I've only been told 2 times out of maybe 60 transactions that they didn't take AmEx.


The "I'm afraid to switch to AmEx because i'm afraid it won't be accepted where i go" thing is vastly overused in my experience. And in the rare occasions that it is the case i simply put the purchase on a debit card.

[Watchflair]

For personal use I only see the credit card as a tool of convenience, fraud protection, and potential point gain. I don't like to use a debit card - don't have one - as I don't like anything tied to my bank account.

I don't carry a balance on my cards - typically pay it off as soon as it hits the card. Kind of neurotic about it.

I was going to cancel my American Express Platinum this year as I just don't see the benefit - they waived the fee for me and my wife when I wanted to cancel. Re-up is September so it's on my radar again - I imagine I'll cancel or downgrade the card at this point.

I do have a Apple Card $0 fee, Delta Skymiles $99 fee, Capital One Venture Card $95, and Chase Sapphire $95.

I can live with a small fee if I see the benefit - I just don't think it makes sense to pay the larger fees unless you really take advantage of all the benefits.

Through the years my point gain has more than justified the annual fees - I was definitely in the positive. Always wondered how they make their money since I pay the balance before any interest accrues.

[CashGap]

Originally Posted by Watchflair

Always wondered how they make their money since I pay the balance before any interest accrues.

Google "Interchange Rate".

[Watchflair]

Originally Posted by CashGap

Google "Interchange Rate".

True - forgot about the merchant fees as I was typing this.

[returntorolex]

Originally Posted by Saltzy

I'm gonna make an assumption that people on this forum have an average credit rating at or above 800, so as a credit card hobbyist I am curious to know what the spectrum is on people's preferred credit card of choice here.

For the last few years, for me personally if wasn't really close. I have been a pretty staunch defender that the card with the best bang for the buck is the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, but now that they raised the annual fee to $550 I'm not so sure that is the case anymore, and am seriously considering moving over to the Amex universe, specifically the Platinum card.

What is your guys go to card for personal spending?

Would you mind defining what a “credit card hobbyist” is?

[tudorbaja27]

Sapphire Reserve for me

[Saltzy]

Originally Posted by returntorolex

Would you mind defining what a “credit card hobbyist” is?

I follow what is being offered by all the major cards, track anything new, make sure I'm using the right card for the right purchase and cash in my points to squeeze as much value as I can....etc, etc, etc.

I'm not gonna get rich doing it, but I find it an interesting rabbit hole to venture down, and its probably made me like $5k in free stuff the last few years.

I'm on vacation as I post this. My AirBNB was $500 for an entire week, my flights were free, my rental car was free, and some drunk idiot handed me a $700 VIP pass for this festival I'm at for free last night.

Points, not needing to stay at a nice hotel, and some dumb luck is going to result in a 6 day trip, 4 Spring Training games, a day trip to the Grand Canyon, and a 2 day music festival with VIP access and unlimited beer costing me roughly $1,200.

Full blown retail paying cash, this is easily a $3k-$4k trip....maybe more if I stayed at a nice hotel.

#Winning.