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Old 12 November 2018, 03:09 AM   #31
utc66
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There are foto forensics websites. You can upload photo and go through steps to determine what was altered in the photo. Seems to be an actual investigative tool.

http://fotoforensics.com/tutorial-about.php
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Old 12 November 2018, 03:26 AM   #32
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Renderings are fine on new merchandise. It's just a representation of what you should expect from the product. But on a vintage watch, where tiny nuances carry significant value, the watch should be very accurately represented in the images.

I suspect this Daytona image has been significantly modified to misrepresent its actual condition. Tantamount to fraud IMO.
Exactly. Send one of these watch buyers a pic of your watch and then see what they say when they get the actual watch. I'm sure they'd flip their lid.
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Old 12 November 2018, 03:58 AM   #33
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The reflection in the pusher looks like the crown is unscrewed, but the crown is screwed down in the image.
Good catch
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Old 12 November 2018, 04:12 AM   #34
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The reflection in the pusher looks like the crown is unscrewed, but the crown is screwed down in the image.
That's sort of a known technique. You pull the crown out to stop the watch. This keeps you from ending up with a blurred sweep hand, since shots like that usually require a smaller aperture and long shutter speeds.
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Old 12 November 2018, 04:57 AM   #35
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Regarding the Heuer

Quote:
"Please note that the image of this watch in the catalogue does not accurately reflect the condition. Additional photos will be sent to you to show the dial and the case that reflects the description in our condition report of this important watch."

When is the Heuer up? Is it with Philips because I can't find a price.

https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/...5-02fdc79c0c2a

https://live.phillips.com/live-auction/1-157TEJ
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Old 12 November 2018, 05:30 AM   #36
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That's sort of a known technique. You pull the crown out to stop the watch. This keeps you from ending up with a blurred sweep hand, since shots like that usually require a smaller aperture and long shutter speeds.
Except the crown isn't out in this picture. The pusher image was shopped onto this image. Christie's needs to be in the Watchout! forum. This is clearly a scam auction.
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Old 12 November 2018, 05:53 AM   #37
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https://www.watchprosite.com/horolog...2471.10287281/
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Old 12 November 2018, 11:15 PM   #38
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Except the crown isn't out in this picture. The pusher image was shopped onto this image. Christie's needs to be in the Watchout! forum. This is clearly a scam auction.
Sorry, I didn't explain. But, you pull the crown out, take the shot, and then in photoshop, you "move" the crown back to the closed position. They just didn't edit the reflection.
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Old 13 November 2018, 12:06 AM   #39
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Exactly. Send one of these watch buyers a pic of your watch and then see what they say when they get the actual watch. I'm sure they'd flip their lid.


Sort of like the reaction one has after opening the wrapper on a Big Mac.








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Old 13 November 2018, 12:19 AM   #40
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Outright fraud.
This does not surprise me one bit, however. The images look like artist renderings not photos.

And after going to auctions for 30 plus years there is one Axiom that I have always found to be true. Auctioneers that charge a buyer's Premium cannot be trusted.
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Old 13 November 2018, 04:53 AM   #41
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Well Christieís held their watch auction overnight and the Photoshopped Rolexes smashed estimates so I guess crime does pay
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Old 13 November 2018, 06:34 AM   #42
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Wow what an eye-opening article.


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Old 13 November 2018, 01:40 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valenciawatchrepair View Post
That's sort of a known technique. You pull the crown out to stop the watch. This keeps you from ending up with a blurred sweep hand, since shots like that usually require a smaller aperture and long shutter speeds.
I could be mistaken, but Iím pretty sure Valjoux movements back then didnít hack. Pull the crown and they keep running.
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Old 13 November 2018, 02:07 PM   #44
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Outright fraud.
Agreed. Itís not even debatable, IMO.

There is too much shady business going on now with vintage watches, particularly Rolex that I have lost all interest. Not something I want to be a part of. I sold my vintage watches a while back, made a little bit of money, and never looked back.
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Old 13 November 2018, 02:10 PM   #45
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I could be mistaken, but I’m pretty sure Valjoux movements back then didn’t hack. Pull the crown and they keep running.

I was thinking that too. Maybe they pulled the crown out, out of habit? But, we'd probably see at least some blur to the sweep hand. Unless the watch was completely unwound.
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Old 13 November 2018, 08:36 PM   #46
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^
The hand movement can be frozen if the shutter speed is relatively high, which would be the case as a lightbox is typically used.
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Old 13 November 2018, 09:52 PM   #47
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I was thinking that too. Maybe they pulled the crown out, out of habit? But, we'd probably see at least some blur to the sweep hand. Unless the watch was completely unwound.

Stop making excuses for them.

The problem is they faked the picture. Christie's can afford a photographer that can take great images for their catalog. Instead they cobbled together a digital franken fake picture to fool buyers.
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Old 13 November 2018, 11:20 PM   #48
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Stop making excuses for them.

The problem is they faked the picture. Christie's can afford a photographer that can take great images for their catalog. Instead they cobbled together a digital franken fake picture to fool buyers.
Not making excuses. Only explaining a well known photography technique. Which doesn't alter the watch in anyway. The rest of the stuff, for sure, is manipulation of the actual condition of the watch.
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Old 14 November 2018, 12:54 AM   #49
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Not making excuses. Only explaining a well known photography technique. Which doesn't alter the watch in anyway. The rest of the stuff, for sure, is manipulation of the actual condition of the watch.
Well known amateur technique, maybe. A pro can image the watch without resorting to photshop tricks. It takes good lighting, some knowledge of the watch, and experience photographing watches.

I would not do business with anyone who digitally modifies images to alter the perception of an item’s actual state, condition, or quality. It is fraud. And anyone so ethically challenged to not recognize it as fraud can’t be trusted with my money.
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Old 14 November 2018, 02:22 AM   #50
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Well known amateur technique, maybe. A pro can image the watch without resorting to photshop tricks. It takes good lighting, some knowledge of the watch, and experience photographing watches.

I would not do business with anyone who digitally modifies images to alter the perception of an itemís actual state, condition, or quality. It is fraud. And anyone so ethically challenged to not recognize it as fraud canít be trusted with my money.
Sorry, but accusing someone of fraud for moving a pulled out stem to stop a sweep hand is ridiculous. Again, that is not altering the watch in any fashion. I myself have never sold a watch with this method. Only practiced photography with it. Again, I do not condone any "altering." i.e. removing flaws, adding components, etc.

And if you're insinuating that I am a fraudulent person I'd have to strongly disagree.

I was strongly against the actual photo-shopping of the condition of the watches here from the beginning in case you didn't notice.
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Old 14 November 2018, 03:53 AM   #51
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Posting a pristine picture and requiring a potential buyer to ask for the actual pictures is misleading at best.

I would not want to do business with a company that practices this.
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Old 14 November 2018, 03:57 AM   #52
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Posting a pristine picture and requiring a potential buyer to ask for the actual pictures is misleading at best.

I would not want to do business with a company that practices this.
Agreed. The difference on that Skipper is ridiculous.
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Old 14 November 2018, 05:23 AM   #53
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Sorry, but accusing someone of fraud for moving a pulled out stem to stop a sweep hand is ridiculous. Again, that is not altering the watch in any fashion. I myself have never sold a watch with this method. Only practiced photography with it. Again, I do not condone any "altering." i.e. removing flaws, adding components, etc.

And if you're insinuating that I am a fraudulent person I'd have to strongly disagree.

I was strongly against the actual photo-shopping of the condition of the watches here from the beginning in case you didn't notice.
Fraud is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage.

Photoshopping away the blemishes to make the watch appear much cleaner than it actually is seems to fit this definition quite neatly. The pusher reflection is but one of several clues that the image is highly modified. I can see no reasonable defense of this practice for a sale to be bid on by online buyers (sight unseen).
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Old 14 November 2018, 08:39 AM   #54
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Another sad state of affairs.
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Old 15 November 2018, 02:52 AM   #55
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Shenanigans
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