Vintage Rolex Just Not Fun Anymore

[timewarped80]

I used to be super into vintage Rolex. I loved the older submariners and sea dwellers with their beautiful “wabi sabi” dials. It was really fun to collect all the variations and admire the unique beauty of each piece.

What was also great was that they were typically cheaper than new. Which made sense. For $4-6k you could find some nice gems. $7-10k the most special pieces. But now the price inflation is nuts. Every single vintage piece I see now starts at low tens, going all the way up to some ungodly numbers. And it doesn’t stop there. I bought a NOS 14060 5 years ago for $6.5k. I just saw one listed by a reputable dealer for over $20k.

It follows the current trend of basically all luxury goods skyrocketing in price recently, whether it be watches, handbags, art, now both new and old. Assuming it’s a product of low interest rates and social media, but I don’t think it can go on like this forever. Nothing ever does, but maybe I’m wrong. Regardless, these high prices have taken some of the fun out for me. Will we ever again see a nice condition patina’d sub for $6k?

[RKTINC1]

I love my older Rolex watches, but I too feel like the older watches are now out of my range. Why spend that kind of money on a watch that underperforms a new Rolex in every way. At one time the discount vs new made sense, now I would rather just find new or almost newer models and enjoy the reliability and good design of the modern Rolex. If you are paying a premium why not buy something useable.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by RKTINC1

I love my older Rolex watches, but I too feel like the older watches are now out of my range. Why spend that kind of money on a watch that underperforms a new Rolex in every way. At one time the discount vs new made sense, now I would rather just find new or almost newer models and enjoy the reliability and good design of the modern Rolex. If you are paying a premium why not buy something useable.

+1


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[Chester01]

It’s made the process of finding hidden gems almost impossible. But collecting in general is often based on the dopamine hit of finding and acquiring new pieces for the collection and that wears off too. The larger our collection gets the more we are simply curators of a massive collection and for what. Each watch worn a couple weeks out of the year max. I used to have a larger collection myself and am finding far more meaning in a 1/2 watch collection.

[khalifam]

Not sure if I fall in the same band here but I'm a huge 16710/16700 geek.

Prices in 2015/2016 pre-owned were like 4k (GBP) now you're looking at like 10k.

Brother picked one up last year for £9600.

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[stewester]

Originally Posted by RKTINC1

I love my older Rolex watches, but I too feel like the older watches are now out of my range. Why spend that kind of money on a watch that underperforms a new Rolex in every way. At one time the discount vs new made sense, now I would rather just find new or almost newer models and enjoy the reliability and good design of the modern Rolex. If you are paying a premium why not buy something useable.

That's like saying to a classic car enthusiast "why don't you just buy new cars instead?". Different people like different things. There are hundreds of thousands of vintage Rolex models being worn and enjoyed every day with no more (possibly less?) babying than their modern counterparts.

[khalifam]

Originally Posted by stewester

That's like saying to a classic car enthusiast "why don't you just buy new cars instead?". Different people like different things. There are hundreds of thousands of vintage Rolex models being worn and enjoyed every day with no more (possibly less?) babying than their modern counterparts.

100% And also, a modern Sub is like 13k on the grey market.

A 90's Sub is about 8-9k* I would much rather get an older sub than a modern one purely for the reason that many people who buy modern are only just buying into the hype.

When I see someone with an old school watch I have more respect for them?

*UK prices

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[tekno]

Originally Posted by RKTINC1

I love my older Rolex watches, but I too feel like the older watches are now out of my range. Why spend that kind of money on a watch that underperforms a new Rolex in every way. At one time the discount vs new made sense, now I would rather just find new or almost newer models and enjoy the reliability and good design of the modern Rolex. If you are paying a premium why not buy something useable.

The new Rolex have no soul… they aren’t the same watch. The peak Rolex aesthetics was long ago. I wear my 42 year old sub every day no matter what I am doing and it doesn’t miss a beat.

I have wore a vintage Rolex watch for 17 or so years. Never had one issue, only had to service them at normal intervals. I’m pretty sure all Rolex/ETA movements are really reliable.


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[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by RKTINC1

I love my older Rolex watches, but I too feel like the older watches are now out of my range. Why spend that kind of money on a watch that underperforms a new Rolex in every way. At one time the discount vs new made sense, now I would rather just find new or almost newer models and enjoy the reliability and good design of the modern Rolex. If you are paying a premium why not buy something useable.

Prices are not the main Criteria; Rolex repairs and services are now too costly as most of you will agree, but personally i think that the Rolex ambivalence towards their clients when dealing with Vintage matters is turning people away.

[Lol-x]

Price rises are never a good thing for anything one may wish to collect.

But one just has to be more selective in their purchases. Higher prices do make it more challenging to buy watches that are no longer made. As long as you have 1 nice vintage watch that you can appreciate wearing, it may be that you just have to vicariously enjoy watches that others are able to share with photos and discussion. Appreciation is not all about 'owning' its also about sharing your collectables and experiences with others and they with you.

[timewarped80]

Originally Posted by Paulie 50

Prices are not the main Criteria; Rolex repairs and services are now too costly as most of you will agree, but personally i think that the Rolex ambivalence towards their clients when dealing with Vintage matters is turning people away.

I second that. I posted about some poor Rolex experiences related to servicing my triple 6. Truly unbelievable.

[Wahlberg]

I was looking at 16750s that were listed on HQMilton from A LONG time ago (I remember them changing photo setups once or twice, I think +6-7 years ago or something and these were from before that). You won't even find those models listed anymore in that condition. Same for Datejusts.

The more time has passed, the worse everything has gotten (overall condition). All the good ones are gone and locked up. I don't even see those tight cases anymore in the current market, it's crazy. Or the pumpkin dials, I saw dozens of them, constant stream, now not anymore.

[karteo]

Originally Posted by khalifam

Not sure if I fall in the same band here but I'm a huge 16710/16700 geek.

Prices in 2015/2016 pre-owned were like 4k (GBP) now you're looking at like 10k.

Brother picked one up last year for £9600.

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Exactly. I bought mine full set, polished lightly with very nice chamfers for 4.5k euros at around that time and now it goes easily for 9.5-10k which is nuts.

And for 4.2k a 16610 tritium n-series unpolished full set with just some hairlines. Now it's impossible to get that.

[1watch]

It works both ways with appreciation. Some here are fortunate to have bought top quality pieces that are now worth multiples more in value. Contemporary Rolex is like a different brand entirely to me. I have no interest in most of the current models. Vintage has unique charm and character with no two examples aging exactly the same.

I also don’t understand why anyone would rather pay multiples over retail in the secondary market for a current production piece. I believe the value is much higher in vintage, if one is willing in invest the time to learn and study.


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[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Price rises are never a good thing for anything one may wish to collect.

But one just has to be more selective in their purchases. Higher prices do make it more challenging to buy watches that are no longer made. As long as you have 1 nice vintage watch that you can appreciate wearing, it may be that you just have to vicariously enjoy watches that others are able to share with photos and discussion. Appreciation is not all about 'owning' its also about sharing your collectables and experiences with others and they with you.

That’s exactly why I love this forum.

[miamiclay]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

[V]icariously enjoy watches that others are able to share with photos and discussion. Appreciation is not all about 'owning' its also about sharing your collectables and experiences with others and they with you.

Well put!
Knowing my own personal foibles, I decided that if I was gonna collect, I’d be better off to focus on one model, because otherwise my central experience was likely to be more about the wanting than about the enjoying.

(While there will never be any shortage of wanting,) I get a lot of pleasure from seeing the other members’ special pieces, their choices and tastes, and - especially - from learning more and more.

E.g., another member and I have been talking and texting for two years now, about whether or not Rolex ever even offered a certain dial. We have no definitive answer yet, and I can get a little charge from unearthing any tiny clue. I’m regularly surprised by how much fairly basic info has yet to be dug out, assembled, and shared. The destination is not half as much fun as the journey.

[swaini3]

Yes prices have gone up but its unfair to compare vintage to current models, whether pricewise or style. IMO, prices of the contemporary models are more likely to correct or adjust than popular vintage models in good shape. I own both newish and vintage models and end up wearing more of the latter.

[Cozmopak]

Quality vintage pieces are limited on the supply side. Unless demand diminishes, prices will continue to rise for vintage.

[daveo5]

I unloaded all my vintage Rolexes over the past two years with the exception of two. Now I sit in the bleachers and watch this crazed frenzy unfold. I just purchased three Swatch watches, from Swatch, for three hundred and sixty dollars. Nice and normal.


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[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by miamiclay

E.g., another member and I have been talking and texting for two years now, about whether or not Rolex ever even offered a certain dial. We have no definitive answer yet, and I can get a little charge from unearthing any tiny clue. I’m regularly surprised by how much fairly basic info has yet to be dug out, assembled, and shared. The destination is not half as much fun as the journey.

Which dial?

[shaunylw]

I feel like vintage is make a strong push right now. The prices might have been a little low a few years ago. I too grabbed a 14060 Swiss only for maybe $4500? Some of the prices are way out of wack, people are trying to get modern hype prices for vintage pieces.

To me, vintage is way cooler than modern, i just can’t afford the majority of the vintage pieces i want.


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[MrChamfers]

People who bought years ago have seen large appreciation. I am seeing prices plateau now so vintage is definitely no longer a good investment.
And the nice ones are way overpriced.
I think it's a pretty bad time to be buying vintage.

Of course there are those rare garage sale/ flea market, once in a blue moon finds that you see here.

[Andjwhite]

I’ve settled on one vintage 5513. Absolutely love it and wear it every day. Would I like to have more? Of course, but prices where they are I’ve decided to stop the cycle of chasing the next watch. If I find myself in a place where I could easily justify a 2 watch collection I’ll look for an awesome 1675. Until then I’m super happy and content to have bought and sold several watches to have ultimately landed on this 5513 and no longer feel the urge to buy another watch.



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[zapokee]

Prices are likely to continue rising. Those who start a collection today will see the current prices as cheap in 5 - 10 years.

I got my mint Red Sub for 11 grand about six years ago, and I thought that was a crazily high price at the time. They're now more than double that even for a mediocre example.

That's just how all collector markets go in the long term. I've certainly reached the point of vicarious enjoyment rather than having to own everything I like.

[Richard Carver]

"Vintage Rolex Just Not Fun Anymore"

Yeah it is. :)

[L.K Johnson]

Great thread first of all!

(Just came home from a poker game a bit “boozed” so sorry about not being 100% on point maybe)
To own a couple of vintage Rolex’es like most of us in this section do has become a double edged sword I think…on one side we are happy that our beloved vintage Rolex watches have increased great in value but on the other side I think most of us are so attached to our watches that the value increase is just fictional and it brings more stress to us than joy…I bet more or less any member that’s been around in this section a couple of years has enjoyed the vintage Rolex value rise…the prices will not go down I’m afraid…as the sustainability wave continues to rise in popularity so will also the vintage trend…

[philhendrix]

Question to those who've been into watches longer than I have; Has this whole spike in prices, whether new (some brands) or second hand vintage happened before? Where there ever such periods of significant price highs and lows, and too high demand on particular models etc?

[1watch]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

People who bought years ago have seen large appreciation. I am seeing prices plateau now so vintage is definitely no longer a good investment.
And the nice ones are way overpriced.
I think it's a pretty bad time to be buying vintage.

Of course there are those rare garage sale/ flea market, once in a blue moon finds that you see here.

True for those fortunate to have bought desired examples in top condition years ago. For which specific references are you seeing prices plateau? Top condition examples of desired references preserved in honest and original condition will continue to hold and increase in value from my perspective. Fewer examples in this condition are coming to the market, they aren’t making more and those that become available typically move quickly.


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[alwayshere]

The reality is a lot of the collectors here aren't really collecting to turn a dime. I suspect many of us are actually quite well off and its just a hobby and being part of a community here. Over time, tastes change and some move them on.

I, for one, haven't sold any of the watches that I have sourced over the last decade. I just enjoy having them. Maybe you pick up a vintage submariner, then suddenly you want a GMT, then its a no-CG submariner, then maybe its a tudor variant. So much choice.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

I am seeing prices plateau now so vintage is definitely no longer a good investment.

A period of stable/lower pricing isn't a good time to buy in a long-term rising market? Warren Buffet would have something to say about that. Guess I should wait until the market starts going up again and pay more.

Watches were never an investment anyway - they're a passion/hobby (although it turns out they've done quite well).