The tenor of the Patek sub-Forum on TRF...be a gentleman

[themast]

Well said Steve and applicable to any sub-forum.

As human beings, the majority of our communication is non-verbal and that is completely lost on a forum. Therefore one has to pay even more attention to how he/she presents his thoughts on a forum.

This being said, well thought criticism and personal opinions should always be welcome, when expressed politely.

[Daryl]

I Agree with Steve , I love this forum, learned a lot about watches and met great people along the way.

[CRDMMW]

Here here. I enjoy getting on this forum daily for advice, ideas and to chat with great people. I have learned a lot thanks to very knowledgeable people. Hope it continues.


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[BNA/LION]

Thanks for the insightful and most accurate post Steve.

I think that this WIS hobby is different, we are all lucky to be into it and to have the means to enjoy all kinds of watches.

I too have met some TRF members I am happy to call friends and appreciate all the great advice, knowledge and good times we have had together.

It is simple... Count your blessings, be a kind to other Human Beings and treat each other with thoughtfulness and respect. IMHO

[sensui]

Hey Steve, thanks for the thoughtful post and I can relate to what you're saying. Not going to say I'm not guilty because my usual rule when I see something I don't like....I just don't saying anything. But lately I broke that silence and used some hateful words on a new Omega Bond LE Seamaster......it just betrayed my faith in the brand on so many levels I think is why.

One must understand though no matter how much older the crowd is or how much money is floating around a place like TRF....it's still the internet with people hiding behind a keyboard....and for some this brings out the natural " troll." You just have to learn to ignore like on every other forum because there's nothing to gain arguing with a troll....their objective (conscious or not) is to just drag you into an angry disagreement of some sort....not sure why but I know many enjoy this.

On the bright side, I have enjoyed my stay on TRF for the most part. It is like you said often a breath of fresh air on the internet for the most part. It's cool to find others with likewise hobbies no matter what it is.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by AK797

"Hideous" is easily and plainly construed as: extremely ugly, horrid, detestable, odious, monstrous, dreadful, appalling, ghastly.

If we allow people to insult others this community will disintegrate. Its about making measured responses, not insults, that fosters friendly objective discussion.

Agreed. Its the word choice not necessarily someone saying that they don't particularly care for a watch.

If one of your friends introduces you to his wife whom you find particularly unattractive i highly doubt anyone would say she is "hideous" to his face, and would probably find better word choice to indicate the fact you might not share the same taste in women. "interesting choice" tends to fit the bill quite nicely.

With some of the comments here recently and some of the distain for some particular watches, I would assume we were discussing Hublots and not Patek.

[gwalker]

Agree. Not every art lover can own a Jackson Pollock. As a huge boat fan(sport fishing) I know I'll almost never own a $10m Viking but we can still enjoy them. But there will always be snobs that much brag and show off their prizes.exolain what isn't known say thank you and enjoy is my philosophy. .


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[Hollister]

Originally Posted by AK797

"Hideous" is easily and plainly construed as: extremely ugly, horrid, detestable, odious, monstrous, dreadful, appalling, ghastly.

If we allow people to insult others this community will disintegrate. Its about making measured responses, not insults, that fosters friendly objective discussion.

I was the "hideous" miscreant. I still maintain that it is not a personal insult, it is a comment on what I think of a watch, not a person, and if it's directed at anyone, it's whomever designed it. Anyway, from now on, I won't bother commenting.

My 5712 and FPJ are both marmite watches, and have attracted plenty of negative remarks. It's part of life, we all have different tastes. Why should I care whether a percentage of the population don't like my watch? And please find me a watch which everybody likes.

Have a look at this thread, for instance. You don't have to scroll very far to see the H word, along with plenty of other negative views. It's far from uncommon on TRF:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=559774

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Hollister

I was the "hideous" miscreant. I still maintain that it is not a personal insult, it is a comment on what I think of a watch, not a person, and if it's directed at anyone, it's whomever designed it. Anyway, from now on, I won't bother commenting.

My 5712 and FPJ are both marmite watches, and have attracted plenty of negative remarks. It's part of life, we all have different tastes. Why should I care whether a percentage of the population don't like my watch? And please find me a watch which everybody likes.

Have a look at this thread, for instance. You don't have to scroll very far to see the H word, along with plenty of other negative views. It's far from uncommon on TRF:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=559774

You can't contribute much to the forum when you get added to everyones ignore list.

You are comparing apples to oranges in that thread you are referencing and you are grasping at straws here. It ultimately doesn't matter what you intended, its how the receiving parties interpret the comment which is the issue.

Move on, or don't, thats your decision. Some people probably earn more goodwill to comment more colorful dissents of watches based on post history so its subjective for sure, but it's not arbitrary. You comment negatively by default in far more instances than you post constructively or positively.

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by GB-man

After reading this I sort of feel like a jerk. I've definitely called a watch or two hideous before. Some watches really bring it out of me.

Such is life I guess. I'll try harder next time

Don’t feel too bad, some watches are hideous. Think of all of those poor Edsel owners!

[Hamish]

Completely agree

[kultschar]

I think its also the type of thread that should be taken into consideration e.g. a comment such as “hideous”

If somebody posts a personal thread because he has a new watch - I would not respond saying it is hideous and put a downer on his new purchase.

If it was a generic thread about the watch model - I would maybe comment that I was not a fan and found it a bit ugly.

[Bryant Park]

Deliberate provocation (trolling) is like pornography. I can't clearly define it but I know it when I see it. Yes there are dog whistle words like hideous and ostentatious but it is more a pattern of behavior followed by denial. It isn't worth arguing over but it is easily observed and identified as evidenced by responses imbedded in this thread.

I think the original poster nailed it. We should treat others the way we would want to be treated.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Move on, or don't, thats your decision.

Not any more. Some people just won't learn.

[RussW]

Originally Posted by AK797

Not any more. Some people just won't learn.

Hopefully we can get back to some normality now

[conkers]

I post far less these days - a lot of bad eggs around sadly.

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by AK797

Not any more. Some people just won't learn.

Wow, the dude was banned. I don't usually notice, but imagine people with 1700 posts usually are not banned. I admit that I noticed him for generally making negative, provocative posts and don't imagine I'll be missing him any time soon.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

We should treat others the way we would want to be treated.

When did you have this epiphany?
You sure as hell weren’t practising what you preach in Socal’s thread – post numbers 49 and 52.

At least Socal has offered an apology, although I doubt its sincerity given the venomous and spiteful remarks he made in and around those posts of yours. That is why I extracted myself from it.
Of what I have chosen to share, it is on here for all to see – so crack on and fill your boots, if you must.

Whether you choose to view me as an equal or something you scrape off the bottom of your shoe is of no consequence and won’t faze me in the slightest, because I know whom I’ve helped resolve real problems by interacting with manufacturers and contacting ADs on their behalf.
Some of that is via PMs and some is open comms in threads, with this one being possibly the most significant – https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=517083

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=482296
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=1289
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=513417
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=442720 – a prime example of how a bit of (barbed) banter doesn’t have to result in a complete slanging match.

[Marciano490]

Ever since Patek started making steel watches, this forum has been full of riff raff.

In all seriousness, I had never understood the impulse to criticize the choice someone else had already made and committed a large sum of money to and was obviously pleased with. Not sure what that accomplished beyond providing some small measure of satisfaction to some small person.

This place can be great for advice and exposure to a range of watches one might not normally come across, but there are too many people who seem to get satisfaction from saying they wouldn't buy watches they seemingly couldn't. Maybe I'm still a bit put off from my interactions from him, but I'm thinking particularly of one poster who pledged absolutely fealty to one brand then would squat on the Patek and AP forums to let everyone know he wouldn't deign to buy any offerings from those brands. Seems to me the change in town here was traceable to that sort of nonsense.

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by PJ S

When did you have this epiphany?
You sure as hell weren’t practising what you preach in Socal’s thread – post numbers 49 and 52.

At least Socal has offered an apology, although I doubt its sincerity given the venomous and spiteful remarks he made in and around those posts of yours. That is why I extracted myself from it.
Of what I have chosen to share, it is on here for all to see – so crack on and fill your boots, if you must.

Whether you choose to view me as an equal or something you scrape off the bottom of your shoe is of no consequence and won’t faze me in the slightest, because I know whom I’ve helped resolve real problems by interacting with manufacturers and contacting ADs on their behalf.
Some of that is via PMs and some is open comms in threads, with this one being possibly the most significant – https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=517083

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=482296
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=1289
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=513417
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=442720 – a prime example of how a bit of (barbed) banter doesn’t have to result in a complete slanging match.

I will turn the other cheek of the face that you insulted to provoke my response. I anxiously await a photo of a watch from your collection so we can revert to discussing the appropriate subject matter. When you do, I promise not to insult it frivolously, as that action on your part is what started all this.

[LostinNihon]

Agree with the sentiments here and it's a good reminder to be choiceful in our interactions. Love this forum and appreciate the camaraderie with fellow WIS'es.


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[Socal to az]

Originally Posted by PJ S

At least Socal has offered an apology, although I doubt its sincerity given the venomous and spiteful remarks he made in and around those posts of yours. That is why I extracted myself from it.

In the spirit of this thread- if I have done anything to offend you, I sincerely apologize.

I shall even offer to tell you what the date is when you ask, when clearly the question is written as an insulting and provocative post.

At the end of the day, Ill do my best to avoid any interaction with you or anyone else that chooses to insert themselves into a thread where their only intention is to stir the pot.

Peace.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by PJ S

When did you have this epiphany?
You sure as hell weren’t practising what you preach in Socal’s thread – post numbers 49 and 52.

At least Socal has offered an apology, although I doubt its sincerity given the venomous and spiteful remarks he made in and around those posts of yours. That is why I extracted myself from it.
Of what I have chosen to share, it is on here for all to see – so crack on and fill your boots, if you must.

Whether you choose to view me as an equal or something you scrape off the bottom of your shoe is of no consequence and won’t faze me in the slightest, because I know whom I’ve helped resolve real problems by interacting with manufacturers and contacting ADs on their behalf.
Some of that is via PMs and some is open comms in threads, with this one being possibly the most significant – https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=517083

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=482296
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=1289
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=513417
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=442720 – a prime example of how a bit of (barbed) banter doesn’t have to result in a complete slanging match.

Whilst I seldom agree with whatever you say from an aesthetic perspective I respect your horological knowledge which is sometimes imparted with humour and other times cringeworthy cantankerousness (if there is a word!) but we do need you otherwise if I say congrats to one more 5711 or 5167 I will weep!!

[martinr]

Originally Posted by PJ S

When did you have this epiphany?
You sure as hell weren’t practising what you preach in Socal’s thread – post numbers 49 and 52.

At least Socal has offered an apology, although I doubt its sincerity given the venomous and spiteful remarks he made in and around those posts of yours. That is why I extracted myself from it.
Of what I have chosen to share, it is on here for all to see – so crack on and fill your boots, if you must.

Whether you choose to view me as an equal or something you scrape off the bottom of your shoe is of no consequence and won’t faze me in the slightest, because I know whom I’ve helped resolve real problems by interacting with manufacturers and contacting ADs on their behalf.
Some of that is via PMs and some is open comms in threads, with this one being possibly the most significant – https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=517083

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=482296
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=1289
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=513417
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=442720 – a prime example of how a bit of (barbed) banter doesn’t have to result in a complete slanging match.

Two points. PJ has been helpful and while obnoxious at times it doesn't seem to me he is looking for a fight, his insults are humorous and on point. His response to DrGolf's thread a few days ago was perfect. May have been my favorite post ever. Bryant Park on the other hand is a new guy with an impressive collection that in a short time has fought with members and ramped up the unpleasant posting. PJ's posts have substance, Bryant Park not so much. As far as the two guys that were banned, who cares. One almost never posted and the other was so unpleasant even if he had something worthwhile to say i usually skipped it.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

I will turn the other cheek of the face that you insulted to provoke my response. I anxiously await a photo of a watch from your collection so we can revert to discussing the appropriate subject matter.

If you believe you have some moral high ground upon which to stand, you’re greatly mistaken.
If you believe I have something to prove, you’re greatly mistaken.
Keeping playing to the crowd by all means, but it’s falling on deaf ears here.
Maybe your next reply will actually conform to the proposal I quoted – thus far it’s been all mouth, no action.

And let’s kick the elephant out of the room once and for all… in order to have an opinion on aesthetics, one does not need to have owned anything.
Of course you’re going to explain how watches are different from everything else we make judgements on, aren’t you?
Well, on that basis, I presume you’ve re-decorated your home multiple times, but only after having lived with the paint, drapes, and chandeliers, etc, for a while... or have you done what each and everyone of us has, which is looked at colours, patterns, designs, and decided that you didn’t like them whilst in the store or looking at the glossy pages?
In case that’s a little unfamiliar to you, since you can’t really fit all that much into a Ferrari, then let me clarify… I’m referring to the remarkable capacity that we have, as human beings, to be able to use our eyes and brains in order to discern what we like and don’t like, based upon what we perceive as being appealing or unappealing.
Since we can do that with colours, patterned fabrics, etc, then domestic appliances, cars, and watches are no different whatsoever.

Now, if you have a sensible argument to offer against that, I’ll certainly be all ears.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Socal to az

In the spirit of this thread- if I have done anything to offend you, I sincerely apologize.

I shall even offer to tell you what the date is when you ask, when clearly the question is written as an insulting and provocative post.

At the end of the day, Ill do my best to avoid any interaction with you or anyone else that chooses to insert themselves into a thread where their only intention is to stir the pot.

Peace.

Apology accepted, and be sure to note very well, my asking for the date was me being typically facetious. I’d forgotten all about our previous interaction two minutes after it took place, since I’m not one to harbour grudges, and I had hoped you would’ve came back with “I can’t, it doesn’t have a date feature, but when I get my 5524, I’ll tell you then”.
That’s all that was needed – a little bit of banter to keep things jovial.

[Bryant Park]

Then I am sorry if my responses have hurt your feelings. I won't ramp it up any further and next time someone goes out of their way to insult a piece I own I will not respond. FYI I wasn't the person with a Ferrari although it looked awesome.

[Chiboy]

Is it my imagination or has the exact same argument broken out in this "let's all just get along" thread as in the original "I just got a 5522 and love it" thread?

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

Then I am sorry if my responses have hurt your feelings. I won't ramp it up any further and next time someone goes out of their way to insult a piece I own I will not respond. FYI I wasn't the person with a Ferrari although it looked awesome.

On the contrary, I’m far too thick skinned to have felt besmirched. You should try it sometime, seriously.
I have never knowingly nor intentionally gone out of my way to denigrate one’s purchases, and contrary to Lol-X’s view (which Neil quoted above), in no way does remarking negatively about one’s purchase reflect upon the member’s taste (or lack thereof) or them as a person.

For me, and I can only speak for myself, EACH and EVERY watch IRRESPECTIVE of branding, stands or falls on its own merits, and as this is a discussion platform, we should be open to discussing those merits without anyone feeling it’s a personal sleight. There is no transposing going on, and it’s always (been) about the watches, never the individual, and definitely not me. I’m no-one special, just a random bloke on the internet opining my (strong) views.
If that’s kept in mind, then my various responses and whatnot will be more clearly understood, and there’ll be less chance of picking me up wrong.

Now, with more than 2 minutes having past, it’s all water under the bridge, AFAIC. Best foot forward and all that...

[Bryant Park]

PJ I said I am sorry, not sure what else I can do. Please take it for what it is. I am sorry!