Vintage Rolex + laser welding = ?

[SubKing]

Here is a pic of an unpolished lug on my red1680 under 10x magnification for reference.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by 05carbondrz

I’m dead positive.

Stunning pieces. One thing bob doesn’t seem to understand is that earlier pieces had wider chamfers on the lugs when the factory’s produced them compared to later examples

[tekno]

The reputable dealers tell you what’s been done to the watch. I’m a new vintage collector and I figured that out pretty fast. My red flags were:

- recut case calling them never polished
- aftermarket inserts
- making any strange claims you would need a crystal ball for

For instance, HQ Milton had the fact Watches were recut on the website in the listings. I’m actually a salesman and I know the tricks played and I don’t like it.

I noticed there are SO many new dealers selling vintage watches now. They all want a piece of the pie. They see unpolished watches bring the money and they go find some or create some to make money. By find some they probably buy recut watches. Who knows. You have to trust your dealer.


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[roh123]

Can anyone post just one or two of these suppose to be unpolished cases? I rarely see people calling them unpolished and I don’t think I am the biggest newbie around. I think this is mostly a hoax where we see it as a bigger problem than it is.

And no; unpolished watches aren’t that many in the market. At least not 50’s, 60’s and early 70’s watches where most of the charm is in an untouched case.

[Johny]

I'm always notice when the case and bezel have a thousand marks but the top of the lugs don't have any.

[BobDyl]

Originally Posted by roh123

Can anyone post just one or two of these suppose to be unpolished cases? I rarely see people calling them unpolished and I don’t think I am the biggest newbie around. I think this is mostly a hoax where we see it as a bigger problem than it is.

And no; unpolished watches aren’t that many in the market. At least not 50’s, 60’s and early 70’s watches where most of the charm is in an untouched case.

There are two things which got conflated in this thread:

1. (Not the original question) Skillfully polished or recut cases marketed as unpolished or "likely never polished" -- OK, we know the game, that's fine. Caveat emptor. I don't really have any issue with good work honestly described.

2. (The original hypothesis and question) Seemingly there are a large number of absolutely perfect 4-digits in the market today. How and what is going on? You can say that you don't see it, that's fine, the question is not a valid one for you. But many of us do see it. I'm not posting direct links to sellers but go ahead and look around. Very few imho are as straightforward as, say, Springer or HQ Milton, whom I find to be very honest with regards to inventory.

Another possibility is that given high current values, long time collectors are finally turning over collections and putting A+ pieces into the market, but I doubt it.

Or, given the latest infusion of speculators in the market, the same fixed number of pieces are getting recycled from buyers to sellers again and again.

Given high values for these pieces, truly astronomical in some cases, perhaps forged cases are getting seriously good.

Or, more likely, pieces are being cobbled together from relatively mint parts and sold as original.

Back in the day -- we're talking late 90's, early 00's - a good number of the perfect pieces, unicorns even back then, came with original papers and a full service history. You hardly ever see that anymore, and it's a bit curious.

Was hoping to spark an interesting conversation here, but has devolved into something else. Sigh and signing off for a while...

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by BobDyl

Was hoping to spark an interesting conversation here, but has devolved into something else. Sigh and signing off for a while...

I wish that were the case, but at the risk of stating the obvious, does it really surprise you that any forum thread devolves (or, in many cases, even expands) into different tangents? You've got hundreds of people with varying personalities, skill levels, points of view...and egos, chiming in. It'd be more unusual if everyone agreed with the OP and kept on point.

[jdmi32]

Originally Posted by roh123

Can anyone post just one or two of these suppose to be unpolished cases? I rarely see people calling them unpolished and I don’t think I am the biggest newbie around. I think this is mostly a hoax where we see it as a bigger problem than it is.

And no; unpolished watches aren’t that many in the market. At least not 50’s, 60’s and early 70’s watches where most of the charm is in an untouched case.

Agreed. I can't recall the last time I saw a listing for an "unpolished" vintage Rolex that was in pristine condition. The ones I see with this claim are almost always with a bit of wear and tear.

I do think that the term is used too freely by many sellers but high res pictures will usually reveal the truth.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by BobDyl

Seemingly there are a large number of absolutely perfect 4-digits in the market today. How and what is going on? You can say that you don't see it, that's fine, the question is not a valid one for you. But many of us do see it. I'm not posting direct links to sellers but go ahead and look around. Very few imho are as straightforward as, say, Springer or HQ Milton, whom I find to be very honest with regards to inventory.

Another possibility is that given high current values, long time collectors are finally turning over collections and putting A+ pieces into the market, but I doubt it.

There are not a lot absolutely perfect 4 digit watches for sale. Most collectors hold on to perfect examples and truly perfect examples sell quickly. Most watches in the market are flawed in one way or the other.

The biggest concern today is not cases or other counterfit items. The biggest concern is put-together watches and sets. My recommendation is not to trust certain dealers. My recommendation is to build knowledge. Jacek or whoever you may trust sells the same watches as anyone else. They go from dealer to collector to dealer to collector etc. Doubtful examples may be described correctly first time they were tampered with but the next time they are perfect and untouched. Doesn’t matter who the dealer is. Trust no one but yourself.

I still don’t see this problem some do. Truly great watches doesn’t float around the market. They sell instantly.

I may be wrong but if there are many truly perfect examples around; feel free to let me know where to look. Always nice to be able to add nice pieces.

[scooba]

I think I am correct when I say vintage Rolex Market have banned anyone advertising using the term unpolished in there sales advertising on the sales board

There is a very good reason for it ! Erik is one of the best and his site Ten past Ten is a fine place to look for correctly advertised vintage pieces

[05carbondrz]

Originally Posted by scooba

I think I am correct when I say vintage Rolex Market have banned anyone advertising using the term unpolished in there sales advertising on the sales board

There is a very good reason for it ! Erik is one of the best and his site Ten past Ten is a fine place to look for correctly advertised vintage pieces

Which is a load of BS.What if You actually have a true unpolished Watch? You get treated like the other Scammers,Great way to handle a problem...Treat everyone like a crook.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by 05carbondrz

Which is a load of BS.What if You actually have a true unpolished Watch? You get treated like the other Scammers,Great way to handle a problem...Treat everyone like a crook.

A nice unpolished piece does not need it to be described as unpolished. Pictures speak for themselves.

[enginerd]

Originally Posted by roh123

A nice unpolished piece does not need it to be described as unpolished. Pictures speak for themselves.

Agree!

Mine:

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by 05carbondrz

Which is a load of BS.What if You actually have a true unpolished Watch? You get treated like the other Scammers,Great way to handle a problem...Treat everyone like a crook.

I agree and feel your pain, the same has happened to me in the past. “Unpolished” is certainly a controversial word around the forums.

Originally Posted by roh123

A nice unpolished piece does not need it to be described as unpolished. Pictures speak for themselves.

This is actually a great way of looking at it. Well put.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by R.O.L.E.X

It's interesting how they redo the chamfers a lot wider than factory.

Lapping machine will do that for you, hard to keep them slim.

[lhanddds]

Originally Posted by 05carbondrz

Which is a load of BS.What if You actually have a true unpolished Watch? You get treated like the other Scammers,Great way to handle a problem...Treat everyone like a crook.

The only way to prove that, is if you are the original owner. So, this description should not be applied by non- owners IMHO. There are other descriptions which could be used.


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[Elle84]

This is just funny, first of all is just funny a word as been banned from a forum.

Another thing funny is many collectors/sellers say they can recognize it at a kilometer away. They just can't even with a 50x microscope.

The one who make this kind of work can put more material on it, make the distance they want from the bevels, springs hole etc. Oh, they can also redo it and age it as never polished with signs of aging.

To me, polished or not is just not important to quote a watch. (Destroyed case is worth as a destroyed case, a good case is a good case, easy.)
Once verified the case is 100% original i can look something else.

Now we are moving on "never touched Dials"; one scary thing is the tritum redone.
Many sellers now aim for the excellence of the tritium, but maybe they have completely redone mirrored dials. They just want to dream about the time-capsule machine.

For me there should be no problem when a job is done properly, this apply in everything.
it is called conservative restoration; and it is applied to the most important works of art in the world, I do not see why we should make a problem ourselves.


I sincerely hope that collectors and sellers will open their eyes, relax a little by saying and accepting the truth of this passion. So that as many people as possible can enjoy it without making it into a disease.

[motoikkyu]

Another factor which we might want to consider is the psychology of collecting/accumulating. At one point, as a result of the aging process, many collectors start to say "what am I going to do with all these watches?" I know because I have those feelings myself, a lot more often now than 10 years ago. I have some primo examples in my safe deposit box that need to be sold sometime in the next ten years to fund retirement dog-food and medications. Why don't I sell TOMORROW? Couple of reasons, but the most important is the rising values and inflation of the currency. I expect a devaluation of US currency after the November elections and don't want to be the guy who sold out just before that. At the same time, I sincerely believe that the number of individuals seeking vintage Rolex is declining and not growing, so there are more watches of each grade to go around. Good condition desirable timepieces are generally easy to sell, so no extreme hurry.

[exador]

Originally Posted by MorningTundra

There’s clearly strong demand for NOS-like cases with well worn dials and bezels.

There's one particular dealer on VRF who seems to re-cut all his vintage pieces. He's open about it - "Excellent case which has just returned from being polished" - but they just look weird

[tekno]

I wanted to clarify about my post earlier. I didn’t see many watches for sale falsely advertising the pieces. It was probably 1 out of 20 pieces looked sketchy from no name dealers on eBay or chrono24. I noticed fake inserts the most but not really common.


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[SubKing]

Originally Posted by tekno

I wanted to clarify about my post earlier. I didn’t see many watches for sale falsely advertising the pieces. It was probably 1 out of 20 pieces looked sketchy from no name dealers on eBay or chrono24. I noticed fake inserts the most but not really common.


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chrono 24 is a huge mine field

[05carbondrz]

Originally Posted by lhanddds

The only way to prove that, is if you are the original owner. So, this description should not be applied by non- owners IMHO. There are other descriptions which could be used.


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I can prove my 3 Watches are unpolished with good IPhone Pictures.I have had offers to buy my unpolished Watches as well so I must have “fooled” Someone.

[lhanddds]

Yea right, moving on now


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