Forked over 19% tax at Frankfurt Airport upon entry: A Cautionary Tale

[guffyboy92]

I'll try to keep this post as concise as possible, but I do feel that it is worth sharing so as to caution fellow members who aren't aware of the tax laws in Germany, such as I at the time.

This incident happened in Feb of this year, before the COVID lockdowns. My Fiancé is a German national, and I am of a different nationality (Filipino). We used to travel together to and from Germany and the Philippines pre COVID. Recently, I decided to let her wear one of my watches, a 116613LB. The watch was purchased in 2016 in the US, was well worn and by no means brand new looking. Upon arrival and passing through German customs (Zoll), we were randomly stopped by an officer, specifically inquiring about our watches. I was wearing my black ceramic Daytona and my Fiancé, the Bluesy. We were asked where and when we bought them, if we could produce the receipts etc. Having never experienced this, I politely told the officer that since the watches were purchased some time ago, that I didn't currently have them on me. He then asks us to come into a back room.

After some deliberation between a few officers, they then told us that we were required to pay 19% import tax on the Bluesy. The reason being that my fiancé is a German national and has a residence there. Apparently the law states that any German citizen/resident who receives a gift from abroad, has to pay tax on it upon entering the country. Believe me, I wasn't too happy about this, as to me it was as simple as letting my Fiancé wear one of my watches. My mistake however was telling them that I gave it to her as a gift, it never once occurred to me that that would have been a problem.

So, I forked over 19% of MSRP for it, as I didn't want any trouble with the German government as I am applying for my residence.

Perhaps this is common knowledge and I am in fact the one who should have known better, but it never occurred to me that this would have ever been a problem. Now I've learnt my lesson. At least that watch is now done and paid for and she can wear it as much as she wants now lol... Just can't let her wear anything else of mine, at least not while entering that country

[Highpolish]

That sucks, kabayan. I've had something similar happen to me here and as expected, a fraction of the initial amount requested fixed it.... Under the table...


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[Sandpit]

I'm not familiar with German tax - but is she classed as a resident in Germany? I'd definitely be aggrieved by this

[guffyboy92]

Originally Posted by Highpolish

That sucks, kabayan. I've had something similar happen to me here and as expected, a fraction of the initial amount requested fixed it.... Under the table...


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Kabayan, in our motherland the Philippines, anything is negotiable Unfortunately, if I made that sort of "offer" in my situation in Germany, at best I'd lose the watch and at worst I'd be taken into custody

[dmash]

This is actually the law in practically every country. You can’t purchase a watch in another country and pay nothing to import it to another (legally). This applies to gifts as well. For example, in Germany, if you send anything over like 20€ (not 100% of current max value) in a package to somebody they’ll tax it. And they will not go just by what’s declared like some countries, they will physically inspect most of the time and pull up the price of no receipts are included.

Lastly, having lived in Germany before, he/she could have taxed you at the market price of any item and not MSRP if they wanted. And absolutely never try to cut a deal with Zoll, 99% are word to word by the book and that will not turn out pretty.


*^This covers the entire EU though for EU specific countries. If you paid VAT in another EU country you’re fine in the entirety of the EU.




Now what you could have done is agree to keep it at Frankfurt until you depart and zero tax paid. But I would never feel comfortable leaving expensive goods like that somewhere.




I just commented on another thread actually, this is becoming a widespread crackdown all over the world. A lot of economies are suffering due to COVID and less travel, many many different instances of airports stopping people for customs checks when never stopped before in their entire life. Thailand for example has gotten nutty, been checked so many times lately.

[ThatSubGuy]

Has nothing to do with Germany in particular, it's about travelling from outside of EU and back into the EU.

It can even happen when travelling within European borders, as jewelry and watches are considered "cash" goods and there's a 10k eur limit to what you can travel with. If you plan on travelling with an expensive watch, always make sure that you bring proof of funds for the purchase, or that there has been paid VAT.

[Patton250]

How does this make any sense at all? So if I wear a Rolex and fly to Germany (or any country) and then fly home my custom peoples can stop me and try to make me prove I bought it in the United States and if I can’t I am supposed to pay some sort of tax on it? What’s to stop them from doing it with your entire wardrobe and everything else you have in your luggage? Sounds like something a banana republic would do. I’d rather go to jail.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Patton250

How does this make any sense at all? So if I wear a Rolex and fly to Germany (or any country) and then fly home my custom peoples can stop me and try to make me prove I bought it in the United States and if I can’t I am supposed to pay some sort of tax on it? What’s to stop them from doing it with your entire wardrobe and everything else you have in your luggage? Sounds like something a banana republic would do. I’d rather go to jail.

You do know this is entirely the reality and law of the United States as well? You could most certainly be stopped after international travel and told to produce a receipt.

Not sure if you’re joking or not, but yes, that is true. Now is it likely with an obviously used watch you’re wearing? No. If they scan your bag and see a freshly boxed Rolex, yes 99% of the time you will need to be proving it. And if it was bought in another country you’re going to be hit with a fine on top of the tax.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by dmash

You do know this is entirely the reality and law of the United States as well? You could most certainly be stopped after international travel and told to produce a receipt.

Not sure if you’re joking or not, but yes, that is true. Now is it likely with an obviously used watch you’re wearing? No. If they scan your bag and see a freshly boxed Rolex, yes 99% of the time you will need to be proving it. And if it was bought in another country you’re going to be hit with a fine on top of the tax.

Your scenario of having a big flashy brand new one in a box makes more sense and I do realize that’s the law. But if you’re going to tell me that customs can stop and ask you about everything you’re wearing every time then we need to consider having massive protests over some other issues. I’m very serious. What’s to stop them from grabbing my wife and asking where her diamond ring came from? The one I gave her 25 years ago. What you’re saying is theoretically if I can’t produce a receipt for that thing I’d have to pay taxes on it right? I’d rather go to jail.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Your scenario of having a big flashy brand new one in a box makes more sense and I do realize that’s the law. But if you’re going to tell me that customs can stop and ask you about everything you’re wearing every time then we need to consider having massive protests over some other issues. I’m very serious. What’s to stop them from grabbing my wife and asking where her diamond ring came from? The one I gave her 25 years ago. What you’re saying is theoretically if I can’t produce a receipt for that thing I’d have to pay taxes on it right? I’d rather go to jail.

From a strict legality side of things, yes, they most certainly can inquire about anything on your body or in your bag. In my experience though anything that looks ‘used’ is never questioned. But anything new (even on your body) they want to see proof of purchase. I’ve experienced this in many countries all over the world.


And as I mentioned above, this is getting increasingly worse every month across the world. Anything of value I would most certainly be keeping e receipts on my phone.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by dmash

From a strict legality side of things, yes, they most certainly can inquire about anything on your body or in your bag. In my experience though anything that looks ‘used’ is never questioned. But anything new (even on your body) they want to see proof of purchase. I’ve experienced this in many countries all over the world.

That’s been my experience also. I’ve had many talks with customs over the years. I’ve always declared everything I was supposed to legally also. They give you forms to fill out for it as you know. That’s not what happened to our friend the OP though. That was totally unacceptable. I would’ve made it my mission in life to find the original receipt and get my money back from them even if the tax was only $10.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Patton250

That’s been my experience also. I’ve had many talks with customs over the years. I’ve always declared everything I was supposed to legally also. They give you forms to fill out for it as you know. That’s not what happened to our friend the OP though. That was totally unacceptable. I would’ve made it my mission in life to find the original receipt and get my money back from them even if the tax was only $10.

Even if he found the receipt he’s still liable to pay tax to import it into Germany/EU. It doesn’t matter if he paid tax to the US years ago....

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by dmash

Even if he found the receipt he’s still liable to pay tax to import it into Germany/EU. It doesn’t matter if he paid tax to the US years ago....

It sounds like I’m confused. I think your right. Then why didn’t he have to pay for a tax on his other watch and all the clothes he was wearing including the actual luggage he had? Why did the German customs agents just pick one watch?

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Patton250

It sounds like I’m confused. I think your right. Then why didn’t he have to pay for a tax on his other watch and all the clothes he was wearing including the actual luggage he had? Why did the German customs agents just pick one watch?

Because he’s a tourist and not a German citizen. The watch was on his wife’s body, making that her property and she’s ‘returning home’ to Germany as a citizen. That makes her liable for tax on that item. And nobody really cares about used clothes. Designer bags, luxury watches? Yes.


Certain Zoll officers can be incredibly nitpicky. I had them try to charge me for a MacBook (used) in my bag one time, until I showed proof of VAT being paid.

It’s actually kind of surprising how many people are unaware of tax rules on imports. It’s been so common to let so much fly, most think it’s allowed to just being in whatever, but it’s not true. That’s definitely changing though. Also we have a prrtty incredible $800 value we can import for free on packages which is unheard of everywhere else.

[Andad]

Must be Karma?

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by dmash

Because he’s a tourist and not a German citizen. The watch was on his wife’s body, making that her property and she’s ‘returning home’ to Germany as a citizen. That makes her liable for tax on that item. And nobody really cares about used clothes. Designer bags, luxury watches? Yes.


Certain Zoll officers can be incredibly nitpicky. I had them try to charge me for a MacBook (used) in my bag one time, until I showed proof of VAT being paid.

It’s actually kind of surprising how many people are unaware of tax rules on imports. It’s been so common to let so much fly, most think it’s allowed to just being in whatever, but it’s not true. That’s definitely changing though

I appreciate you letting me know. Sounds more like a police state to me than a customs agency. I pray I never get put in a situation like that. I’m not sure how I would handle it. I don’t personally use profanity but I think in this case I might have to tell those people right where to go regardless of the consequences. However please understand if I owed taxes on it legitimately I would pay them. Of course in that situation I would’ve had the receipt and the paperwork filled out ahead of time. But what happened to the OP in my opinion is unacceptable IMO.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Andad

Must be Karma?

Perhaps. I never met her. Was she one of the agents who stopped the OP?

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Patton250

However please understand if I owed taxes on it legitimately I would pay them. Of course in that situation I would’ve had the receipt and the paperwork filled out ahead of time. But what happened to the OP in my opinion is unacceptable IMO.

You do realize though, that if he gifted her the watch and it’s staying in Germany, he legally DOES owe the taxes on it that he paid......so would it not be acceptable?

OP told them it was a gift. What would be unacceptable is if OP said ‘it’s my watch, obviously, she’s just wearing it’. And THEN they tried to tax it without any possibility of speaking about it.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by dmash

You do realize though, that if he gifted her the watch and it’s staying in Germany, he legally DOES owe the taxes on it that he paid......so would it not be acceptable?

19% tax based on semantics is what you’re going with?

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Patton250

19% tax based on semantics is what you’re going with?

It’s not semantics though, it’s the law. You’re kind of trying to find a way to justify this being unacceptable but the simple fact is, it’s entirely legal and *right* that they asked him to pay tax. It’s black and white, not even grey...

And 19% is Germany’s VAT rate, it’s not some fabricated number the customs officers decided to go with that day.




I’m simply presenting the truth of what the law is. You can be opinionated of course, but when it comes to *legally* what was right or ‘acceptable’, nothing the OP experienced was out of line. This is kind of like the debate on if you bought a watch in a tax free state and then brought to your home state without paying a use tax. Whether you think that’s acceptable or not is your opinion, but the fact remains it’s still not legal

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by dmash

It’s not semantics though, it’s the law. You’re kind of trying to find a way to justify this being unacceptable but the simple fact is, it’s entirely legal and *right* that they asked him to pay tax. It’s black and white, not even grey...

OK my friend let’s just agree to disagree. It may be legal but it’s not right. I consider it governmental theft. That’s my opinion and it’s not going to change. I appreciate the exchange though.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Patton250

OK my friend let’s just agree to disagree. It may be legal but it’s not right. I consider it governmental theft. That’s my opinion and it’s not going to change. I appreciate the exchange though.

But the thing is, I also think it’s silly I actually lean towards your opinion haha, I’m just clarifying for OP and the others that it was technically legal and were probably going to start experiencing this more and to be prepared.

If you haven’t had to pay anything over the years, consider yourselves lucky, times are changing. In the past 6 months I’ve been stopped more than I’ve been stopped in my ENTIRE LIFE. That’s not an exaggeration, it’s nuts

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by dmash

It’s not semantics though, it’s the law. You’re kind of trying to find a way to justify this being unacceptable but the simple fact is, it’s entirely legal and *right* that they asked him to pay tax. It’s black and white, not even grey...

And 19% is Germany’s VAT rate, it’s not some fabricated number the customs officers decided to go with that day.




I’m simply presenting the truth of what the law is. You can be opinionated of course, but when it comes to *legally* what was right or ‘acceptable’, nothing the OP experienced was out of line. This is kind of like the debate on if you bought a watch in a tax free state and then brought to your home state without paying a use tax. Whether you think that’s acceptable or not is your opinion, but the fact remains it’s still not legal

If you read his original OP he says the watch was his and bought in 2016 and was only letting her wear it. If you think it’s ok for him to have to pay 19% on it just to enter Germany you and I are far apart on what we believe good government practice is. Like I asked before what’s to stop those agents from nitpicking through everything in their possession and making them pay a tax on it? The answer to that is absolutely nothing it just depends on how they feel that day right? As far as I’m concerned they stole money from him. They put him in a terrible position to have to decide whether to go back where he came from or enter into Germany. To me it’s governmental extortion.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Patton250

If you read his original OP he says the watch was his and bought in 2016 and was only letting her wear it. If you think it’s ok for him to have to pay 19% on it just to enter Germany you and I are far apart on what we believe good government practice is. Like I asked before what’s to stop those agents from nitpicking through everything in their possession and making them pay a tax on it? The answer to that is absolutely nothing it just depends on how they feel that day right? As far as I’m concerned they stole money from him. They put him in a terrible position to have to decide whether to go back where he came from or enter into Germany. To me it’s governmental extortion.

I won’t keep going back and forth but *technically* they could make him pay tax as a tourist too although rare. This is because they don’t want to create some imaginary line. What’s to stop me from transiting through Germany with 10 MacBooks pros I got for 30% less in the USA and reselling? This is the reason these laws exist and the officers have a bit of say so in what is acceptable and what can slide. I just had to pay tax to Thai customs for something and I’m technically a tourist with no permanent residence (although I travel there almost half the year).


And technically he could have left the watch with customs until he departed, as an alternative so the item would never be imported. Obviously I wouldn’t choose that, but it is an option.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by dmash

I won’t keep going back and forth but *technically* they could make him pay tax as a tourist too although rare. This is because they don’t want to create some imaginary line. What’s to stop me from transiting through Germany with 10 MacBooks pros I got for 30% less in the USA and reselling? This is the reason these laws exist and the officers have a bit of say so in what is acceptable and what can slide.


And technically he could have left the watch with customs until he departed, as an alternative so the item would never be imported. Obviously I wouldn’t choose that, but it is an option.

I totally agree with you brother. But there’s a big difference between having 10 brand new MacBook Pros and one for-year-old borrowed watch.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I totally agree with you brother. But there’s a big difference between having 10 brand new MacBook Pros and one for-year-old borrowed watch.

But is there a difference between 10 brand new MacBooks Pros and one forty year old Daytona without papers on my wrist that I’m wanting to resell?

See how it’s a hard line to cut?



Tax mans always gonna get paid, practically the one certainty we all know in life lol

[Vishy26]

Intruding privacy, showing “Them are the rules”, then taking money...Getting robbed wouldn’t be any worse than this

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by dmash

Because he’s a tourist and not a German citizen. The watch was on his wife’s body, making that her property and she’s ‘returning home’ to Germany as a citizen. That makes her liable for tax on that item. And nobody really cares about used clothes. Designer bags, luxury watches? Yes.


Certain Zoll officers can be incredibly nitpicky. I had them try to charge me for a MacBook (used) in my bag one time, until I showed proof of VAT being paid.

It’s actually kind of surprising how many people are unaware of tax rules on imports. It’s been so common to let so much fly, most think it’s allowed to just being in whatever, but it’s not true. That’s definitely changing though. Also we have a prrtty incredible $800 value we can import for free on packages which is unheard of everywhere else.

I think the issue, I perhaps others have. Are there were things similar that were legal but not right. Not that long ago a bunch of people smuggled diamonds and themselves out of the country.

[DoraTheExplorerII]

That's why I always have the watch under the sleeve, or slipped into my pocket for just that moment when passing by customs officers.

[ThatSubGuy]

Originally Posted by Patton250

If you read his original OP he says the watch was his and bought in 2016 and was only letting her wear it. If you think it’s ok for him to have to pay 19% on it just to enter Germany you and I are far apart on what we believe good government practice is. Like I asked before what’s to stop those agents from nitpicking through everything in their possession and making them pay a tax on it? The answer to that is absolutely nothing it just depends on how they feel that day right? As far as I’m concerned they stole money from him. They put him in a terrible position to have to decide whether to go back where he came from or enter into Germany. To me it’s governmental extortion.

I think that YOU need to read the original OP one more time.

My mistake however was telling them that I gave it to her as a gift <--- In this case she has to pay VAT.

It has nothing to do with extortion, it's just taxes. You can bring in items up to a certain value tax-free, when you go above this limit you have to pay taxes for "importing" these products into Europe.