What do you think about this 1655? Help

[Pele]

I am new to this world and for my first Rolex I have my heart set on a 1655 in excellent condition. Unfortunately, everyone else seems to have their hearts set on this also at present! I am not a collector. Shocker here, I want to wear the watch on my wrist and use it to tell time and / or the date and generally just covet it ;)

That said, deciding to buy in a seller's market, should I ever wish to sell it, or just tire of wearing a 20K watch.. I will want to make some decisions that will hold me in good stead.

I have been casually researching this for a few months and now have just enough knowledge to be dangerous to myself. Therefore, after some lurking, I am reaching out to the group here for some help.

I have become somewhat overwhelmed at the last moment as I am considering a watch. This in part has to do with the nuanced marks (e.g., 1-5) and keeping track of the changes of the bezel, dial (railroad etc.) not to mention movement by year that sometimes splits years. The bottom line is that I want to keep some value in the watch from some classic features and not just follow the current fashion sellers’ trend that puts all 1655s in the same category. For example, my understanding off the top of my head is that the orange arrow hand in the 1980s is a kind of patina-fade after it came out of the factory painted red. Nevertheless, it is marketed currently at times as an "orange arrow hand." How much does this detail matter for the value? Nobody really knows. But the early vintage models for the sake of argument, let's just take the straight second hand 1971, do generally have some attributes that set them apart and give them value.

I am willing to make some compromises so that I get the watch in the condition and with cosmetics that appeal to me. What I am trying to avoid is accepting some compromises or flaws that are somewhat generally accepted as good to avoid. And I am asking for assistance with this from the forum here. Kind regards.

Here is the 1981 1655 I am considering I particularly like the orange patina; and am concerned about the minute hand.. Is the tritium just gone there or is it inconsistent patina? I am told it has seen very little polish if ever. I can not determine how scratched the plexiglass is..

(I have to change the format of the other photos I have to upload - let me know if that would help and I can work on that)

[janice&fred]

even tho we own two of these things i'm almost clueless on their particulars. i don't see much problem with the different color aged lume on the hands. however that bezel appears much newer than the watch and that movement has been thru the war. is the watch something that has been in a few dealer's hands and undergone some surgery? solid seller? by the nature of the pics whoever owns the watch knows how to pop it apart for the photo shoots.

[Woody]

It looks to have been polished to me......there is a spring-bar sticking out from one of the lugs!! The challenge with buying vintage watches is that there is always a better one out there......so you are (as you say) having to constantly make compromises unless you have a very large bag of cash to spend. Personally I would give this one a miss and look for a better (and likely more expensive) example. Good luck.

[Pele]

Originally Posted by Woody

It looks to have been polished to me......there is a spring-bar sticking out from one of the lugs!! The challenge with buying vintage watches is that there is always a better one out there......so you are (as you say) having to constantly make compromises unless you have a very large bag of cash to spend. Personally I would give this one a miss and look for a better (and likely more expensive) example. Good luck.

Woody, thanks for your insight. Your comments and general philosophy are really helpful for me to hear. Your name to good part of what I am experiencing. I guess I’m not alone… I see the spring now that you point it out. Good eye. The seller apparently bought it from another dealer who bought it from a small jewelry store. The seller indicates that he is going to do a full service on it and it has yet to be done. He indicates also that it’s all original period appropriate parts. However, with the scratches on the rest of the watch I’m very surprise the bezel would be in that good of shape.

[Vincent65]

Doesn't look polished to me - that spring-bar doesn't mean anything.
Bezel looks newer. Dial/hands/patina look good.
Some minor moisture ingress in movement at some point, probably - light corrosion on oscillating rotor. Not a big deal, imo.
Is this being sold by A.Ciani?

[Pele]

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it! That is the seller, who point out that 2 o’clock clock has very subtle tritium crumbling. More of a concern for me is the hour hand appears to be a nice deep orange yellow patina however, the minute hand appears to be a matte gray. I can’t tell whether the tritium of the minute hand is so thin it just crumbled or just ages differently. Nevertheless, I think this might bother me aesthetically and could bring down the value some. I’ll be interested to hear what other people think about this. I have a hope it may look better in person but I think this may be wishful thinking. The seller also indicated all original parts that are period appropriate. I agree, the scratches on the rest of the watch would indicate that the bezel is in a little too good of shape to not have been replaced. The seller has indicated altogether, the watch is in outstanding condition. He would have it serviced and cleaned before delivery. It is keeping time at 5 plus and pressure rated to 100 m. Price is around 20 K. Thoughts?

[Dan S]

It's not easy to tell the difference between a Mk IV and a service bezel, but I believe it is a service bezel based on the narrower 2s and the more oval 6s. I'm not sure if the attached photo is considered accurate by the experts, but I'm including it as a reference. I would love to hear from experts about this.

Also, given the rotor rub damage, the movement should receive some serious repairs to the auto-winding mechanism, not just a standard service. I would budget an extra $500 or so for that.

I also noticed this piece and liked the patina, but wrote it off because of the bezel. IMO the OP is too concerned about matching lume on the hands, dial, etc. Usually the lume does not age entirely consistently, and in fact totally consistent lume can be a warning sign.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...el-t24292.html

[swish77]

Nice 1655. Looks like a service bezel, but so what? As long as the price reflects that. Tritium on the minute hand aged differently for whatever reason, but relatively minor on a 40-year-old watch.

The case has been polished, IMHO, based on the slightly shorter and rounded ends of the crown guards, compared to my 1655 anyway. Also, the lugs look slightly thinner, especially the top right side. Still, there were some subtle changes to the cases through the run of this reference, so who knows.

What’s the beginning of the serial number and do you have a UV photo? The photo is especially important on a 1655. That paint on the 24-hour hand should light up like a torch. And just for the record, there were indeed “orange” 24-hour hands. It’s not just a result of aging. Some were more “red” than others, though, depending on the year.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by swish77

Nice 1655. Looks like a service bezel, but so what? As long as the price reflects that.

I absolutely agree with you on this general point, as long as the buyer is ok with it. In this case, the dealer is saying that the bezel is original and is pricing the watch accordingly. So your opinion on the bezel is much appreciated.

[labo]

Re-lumed dial with service bezel.

[1665fan]

Why do you say relumed

[Jerrocop]

I agree that this is a service bezel. Those 2's, 4's, and 6's are standing tall and proud.

[mbc]

I look a the '8' as my guide on MKIV vs. service -- oval top and round bottom (vs. oval top and bottom in MKIV) is easier for me to spot...

[swish77]

Originally Posted by labo

Re-lumed dial with service bezel.

Care to elaborate about the lume?

A UV photo could help with some clues.

[labo]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

Why do you say relumed

Because i have around 10 1655 dials around 20 years i keep them.
The original tritio on 1655 is so far from this one in this topic.

See the concentration and grip on the indexes

Regards