I think Rolex jumped the shark

[betterwatchit]

I rarely visit or rarely post messages, but I must say, you echo so many of my sentiments here. I’m particularly put off by the negative associations coming with modern Rolex watches. The small proportion of showy, boastful, vulgar people who post on social media, sing in rap songs, talk about their watches as if the watcher should be impressed ... well, they just kill the brand for me. So, I rarely wear my Rolex anymore.

For any Brits out there ... it’s gone the way of the Burberry check design. More a brand embarrassment than a positive association. Purely from the people who wore it in the 90s and early 2000s.

[Playinwittime]

I agree with most of what the OP posted. I disagree that people who have issues with coddling watches and upset at a scratch should be put in any negative category. I feel that way about my cheapies as well as my Rolexes. Also, I would keep an open mind that many out there wearing Rolexes are still enthusiasts. While you are certainly correct that, probably, a larger percentage of Rolex owners are posers than other luxury brand wearers, we wouldn’t have TRF, if enthusiasts didn’t want them still. I just have never and will never pay over retail for any future Rolexes I may decide to get.

[eanzenberg]

Are Patek Nautilus’s or Aquanauts more available than steel Rolex’s?

[Henrimontgomery]

I hear what people say here and I must agree with them. It's no fun going to an AD, and not even be able to try the model you're interested with. Especially when grey dealers in my city have them all for display at inflated prices.

To me, the main issue with Rolex at the moment, besides the hoops you have to go through to get one, is the crowd of owners. As some said here, you can clearly notice many Rolexes on numerous wrists. The other day, going to shop with the missus for a dress, there was a salesperson with a TT DJ serti on the wrist. I've seen them on bankers, my boss got a BLNR recently, and there isn't a single day where I see either a 16710 on some trader's arm or a sub on a random guy in the street. They are everywhere.

That is not the problem, but the problem is because many of these individuals are interested in the prestige of the brand, the market moves to please them, and that means one thing I truly hate: polished watches. Because this large crowd are not invested in horlogerie, but in swag, the sellers polish the watches thinking this is what should be done to make them more attractive. And so, it makes it very hard for people like me, who enjoy sharp models, to find anything.

Not saying the salespersons and traders are in cahoots to ruin my prospective collection though.

[One&done]

I doubt that the frustrations that lead to this type of discussion are relevant to the vast majority of Rolex’ customers or potential customers. It is a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of consumers who get wound up about hard-to-get models.

Friend of mine in his late 50’s bought his first Rolex last year. Walked into an AD and selected from the range they had in stock that day. He was and is unaware of the broader Rolex range, has never heard of a Daytona much less a Batman or Hulk or other such nonsense. Can’t be frustrated about the availability of a watch you’ve never heard of. He is delighted with his DJ41 MoP dial with diamonds though has only worn it once for a family wedding. Classic Rolex customer right there.

The op complains that most of the brand’s watches are unavailable but in-fact the vast majority are readily available. There’s are just tiny number of SKUs from a huge catalog that are hard to get and very few people care about those.

As for people buying Rolex to brag about their wealth... I don’t deny that it might exist as a phenomenon, but I have never seen it. I could count on one hand the number of times anyone has noticed what watch I am wearing. Nobody cares in my experience.

In my view the brand continues to go from strength to strength.

[Boaters]

Great post i see it but love the quality fit and finish. The old saying still holds true for me once you wear the crown you never go down.

[kieselguhr]

I try not to think about it too much but I get what you’re saying Seth. There are a lot of barriers and factors that inhibit our enjoyment of the brand.

[DCheeta]

They do make a nice wristwatch though.

[HedgeHogger]

Originally Posted by replicator

Rolex has long attracted status seeking folks. But objectively speaking they make the best watches and have the most timeless designs.

I'm not sure how to objectively measure "best watches" or "most timeless design".

"Timeless design" is purely subjective (although I agree some of Rolex's designs set the benchmark).

"Best watches" -- there are Omegas and Grand Seikos that are mechanically superior and have better fit and finish (and some other brands). Quartz watches and smart watches keep more accurate time.

Where Rolex are objectively better than any other mass-produced brand for sub-$30K watches is on value retention. Take the new Grand Seiko SLGA001 dive watch for example, amazing watch that is better than its Rolex counterparts in almost every technical way (except the clasp imho) - I also personally like the looks better. But, if I were considering buying one I would need to justify the slight preferences in looks and build quality over the Rolexes and the fact that the GS will probably be worth at best 60% of what I pay for it in 5 years whereas the Rolex will most likely still at least be worth what I paid for it. That is a hard consideration for me to personally overcome.


As for what people at the office think about you wearing a Rolex, I agree with the others who have posted that stigma is an unfortunate side-effect/risk of a Rolex. Some people will suspect its fake. Some will think it means you are frivolous with your money. Some will think you are a brand whore. And you will get the unfortunate stigmas that come with all of those. You wont get those stigmas with an Omega, GS, IWC, etc, even if they are more expensive than the Rolex.

Rolex is superb at maintaining the value of its watches by artificially limiting supply. If value retention is important, then they are hard to beat. I am glad that they have not taken the example of Panerai which continually undermined its own value for short-term returns at the expense of long-term value retention. But for me personally, there is some point at which my subjective desire for a watch outweighs my objective knowledge of which watch is a better investment, which is why I also have a Panerai, Omega, GS, etc.

The hassle of the Rolex buying experience is just part of the "price". An annoying part, but without it they wouldn't be able to maintain value.

[architrave]

Their attitude and approach won’t change unless the market landscape shifts around them - either fashion, buying habits changing, or a competitor changing the game.

If we acknowledge the speed Swiss watch brands move that last one is unlikely to happen any time soon. Geology moves faster.

[peterskinner]

Thing is, they still make robust, accurate, mechanical watches that last a lifetime. Rolex have always made sure there is substance behind the hype. They offer the whole ‘package’ , and that is a key attraction, status or not.

[Cru Jones]

Well, Rolex “baggage” is nothing new and has been around in one form or another since the ‘80s. What seems to have changed is that demand is far outstripping supply, leading to frustration and profiteering.

But if the “noise” around the brand is too loud for you, I think you’re right to look elsewhere. And then come back to Rolex again, as you’ve done a number of times over the years. (Just a little tease brother. )

[AK797]

I've had a little think about this and I actually think the situation is better and more real than before. We joined around the same time and back then there was no real pictorial Social media, so apart from us more serious watch guys, WIS as they were called, the only buyers of Rolex were pure status hunters many of whom had never even seen a Rolex properly before entering an AD to reward themselves with one for whatever triumphant reason, let alone knew of any of the models.

However now, as materialistic and one-upmanshippy as SM has become, it has shown to a whole new breed of similarly aspirational buyer, what Rolexes actually look like and function like and the differences between models. And so now there is alot more genuine knowledge of the pieces than before, so even tho the reasons for buying are still as spurious, plus now we have the profit motive too, the knowledge of the individual watches is far greater, which has also contributed to the huge rise in demand because, apart from the hype, they do actually look and feel really good.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by peterskinner

Thing is, they still make robust, accurate, mechanical watches that last a lifetime. Rolex have always made sure there is substance behind the hype. They offer the whole ‘package’ , and that is a key attraction, status or not.

Yup, the recent hype is just that recent, the view of Rolex was not purely wholesome before, which I admit was also mine before I joined this forum, it was that Rolex was for show-offs; the negative connotations have been there for decades.

[joli160]

Seth, I get what you are thinking and totally agree with you that there are many more interesting brands.

What I appreciate from Rolex that they are not following trends in a way many other brands do. They stick to their identity and do how they seem fit. I like that attitude. Minor tweaks are a revolution haha.

For me the design and quality of Rolex keeps me connected to the brand and I find it hard to steer away. I still do get a lot of enjoyment from wearing them and will stick to Rolex.

If I read the posts from the majority here, yourself being a good example, I think a lot of Rolex wearers are some really nice people

[Token74]

Interesting thoughts. Although you lost me when you suggested that Breitling or Hublot may be cool!!

I have a love/hate relationship with Rolex. I love their watches, but hate the brand association.

When wearing a Rolex, if someone notices the watch and asks what it is (very rare, but does happen) I will state the reference (I.e. Daytona) rather than say it’s a Rolex or a Rolex Daytona. Whereas, I will happily say I’m wearing an AP, Patek, Omega etc.

I think it’s because of the image Rolex carries, certainly in the UK. Generally an image of dodgy types or flash folk that line to flaunt their wealth. Think Del Boy, Arthur Daley, and Harry Enfields character, Loadsamoney.

Growing up in a poor area, Rolex was an aspirational brand for me, I wanted to be able to afford one, although I never believed I would. I loved the brand back then. I’m not a jealous person, I tend to look at what others have and use it as inspiration, rather than envy or bemoan them.

But now I can afford a Rolex, I’d rather not shout about it. I’d rather fly under the radar. I tend to wear my Rolex watches around the house a lot or when gardening etc. This way I get to appreciate them without having the stigma attached to me when out. I do of course wear them out, just never down the local pub for instance where I know a lot of people and do care what they think about me. It’s a small farming village and whilst they would recognise the Rolex brand, they would never notice a Patek or AP.

It’s why I like this forum, I can chat watches without anyone caring about my wealth (or lack of) and can discuss Rolex without anyone thinking I’m being flash.

In terms of the lack of supply etc, I have no issue with any of that. Lots of folk on here bash Rolex and AD’s, but many of them were snubbing AD’s back in the day when it was cheaper to go grey. If they’d bought from the AD back then, maybe they’d get whatever they want now! I’m by no means a big spender at my local AD, but they’ve always got me whatever I want, because when it was cheaper to buy grey, I still bought from them.


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[Swaye]

Seth agree with many of your points. I too have tired of the Rolex "chase." But, it has just allowed me to go explore other brands.

Rolex is still the core of my small collection, and probably always will be. They build ultra reliable value retaining watches that I admire. They are comfortable and to my eye super appealing. The lack of change within a given Rolex line is exactly what appeals to me about them. You can pick up a 4 digit Sub and a 6 digit Sub and see the exact same design DNA and language across 60 years.

All that said, wait lists, meh service (from RSC), terrible boxes (small thing I know but it annoys me that every other luxury brand I buy gives you a box that looks the part while the Rolex box looks like a cheap flea market purchase ) and the total hype machine has worn me out the last few years.

I am sure I will be back to my AD when it all calms down a bit, whenever that is. In the meantime, this is really a great time to be into watches - FPJ, Moser, UJ, Omega, Breitling (finally) and Tudor are all building some excellent watches. And plenty of others as well.

This crazy market will end one day, and you will be able to walk into an AD and buy a BLRO out of the case again. Is that a year? 5 years? Longer? Who knows. But it will happen. I'll enjoy other watches while I wait.

[alphadweller]

Great product, sturdy, dependable, accurate. I can’t ask much more from a watch for what I truly need and value. But some other recognized brands are equally sturdy, dependable and accurate. However, these other brands are miles away in terms of distribution, availability and overall AD experience.

Indeed, the real problem with Rolex IMHO is the strategy of the brand and the distribution resulting in the immense difficulty in getting what I like. I haven’t been able to buy a new sports steel Rolex from any local AD in three years’ time since my SD43. That to me kills the pleasure of acquiring a new piece and puts me off the AD experience. To make things worse, Rolex’ communication and PR hasn’t been great, almost as if they didn’t care much about the whole situation. Not their fault they say, unprecedented demand. Yeah? Then why do we see all these hot steel sports models sitting at grey resellers brand new, apparently sourced from ADs directly? Something is very wrong.

Will I buy another Rolex one day? I’m not sure, things would have to change drastically at Rolex and their ADs for this to happen. Right now, unless Rolex release a model few other people like and is readily available at ADs as a result, I don’t see how I’ll be able to add another one to my collection. I’m not keen on buying from a non-official source, too much risk and price is not taking that risk into consideration.

I still like the product per se, my YM and SD43 are awesome watches.

[Harry-57]

I've received nothing but superb service from the company and their ADs, one in particular. The only thing I have not received from Rolex and their ADs are all the models I wanted when I wanted them, because they are in such great demand. Their ADs could easily sell considerably more than their allocation of some models. To say that Rolex treats them badly implies that any retailer who sells something for which there is a wait list is being treated badly by the manufacturer. Good salespeople explain the situation rationally and defend the brand. Bad or lazy salespeople blame the brand and/or look for scapegoats ("it's all the fault of the grey market"..... etc.).

I think Rolex do care and they care very much - about Rolex. They can sell everything they make. Job done. They are not laughing at me because I can't get a watch I want. They are not deliberately trying to irritate me or lose my custom. They are running a successful business and they have been good at it for longer than I have been alive.

Why do people take this stuff so personally? There's a post COVID-19 business opportunity here. Weekly coach trips to Rolex HO where disgruntled people can stand on the pavement outside, shake their fists and shout "you'll be sorry".

[macrowatch]

If popcorn shirts can make a come back after 25 years, Rolex can make a comeback after the shark jumping decline too! Totally feel you OP. Best product on market but lost point of sale control brand experience wise.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by superdog

I’ve made some great friends here. I speak to many almost daily.



I say this to empathize that I’m not looking to ruffle any feathers. Just a comment on a watch forum.



For years, I’ve been back and forth with my a love/hate relationship with the brand.



Love the watches. Great style, robust, fun to wear, great lume and the bracelets and clasps are awesome. Albeit, I’m gravitating to the older models. I do find a lot of the more recent models a bit clunky. Not all. But some for sure.



That all said, they treat their AD’s poorly and their clientele worse. You can say that they are building the brand, making it more exclusive. But considering how many watches they actually make, that’s not a very good argument.



It’s gotten to the point where everyone wants one. It’s the symbol for success. But I think Rolex is a victim of their own success.



Comments like “I wear a 40k$ Rolex” which just happened in the news seem right about the attitude of many wearers of the brand these days. Like they are special or something.



All the while, the brand couldn’t care less. You can’t even get most of their watches. They are literally laughing at the enthusiastic buyer that can’t get the watch they want so they whine and complain. At least I picture them laughing.



Recently an article came out praising Rolex for giving us an early Xmas present by showing the world their latest designs. The watches that won’t be out for months and will only go to the very very few anyway. Unless you are willing to pay market value, which I am. Just not for Rolex. At least not today I’m not.



Yet, tons of people will freak out when they graciously submit a couple of tweaks to a line that’s become long in the tooth. New bezels, new metal configs etc. With all their power, the still are doing nearly nothing new. But people will freak out anyway. Get on lists, and hope and pray they can spend all this money.



Now, don’t get me wrong. I don’t fault Rolex. They are brilliant. And they have successfully kept their mojo for decades. Not easy. Wish I could do that. So impressive.



I just think, for me, I barely even want to wear one anymore. I don’t want to be seen with one on. I never understood why I used to read about real watch enthusiasts that hate Rolex. I think I’m starting to get it. Keeping a few favorites, moving the rest. I expect I’ll come back like I always do.



But so many cool brands out there. So many cool watches. And so many tool bags that think their 10k$ watch is a tool watch and they wear them only for themselves and dont care what anyone else thinks. And watch gods forbid their tool watch that only for them gets a scratch.



Can’t get em. Treats their dealers badly. Minimal creativity and imagination. Disdains their clientele. Deigns to grace us with pics of the watches you can’t get. This enormous crowd that thinks they are special because they wear a Rolex.



Like I say, to me, Rolex has jumped the shark.



Tudor = cool.

Breitling = cool.

Omega = cool.

VC = super cool

I’m even thinking hublots are cool lately.



When I see a Rolex on someone now, I wonder if they like watches, or if they just want the brand. When I see something else on someone, I start to think they might be actually cool watch person.



Flame suit on. I’m prepared. But would love to discuss thoughts with anyone that actually doesn’t feel hurt by this and wants to talk watches.



This place might be called Rolex Forums, but it’s a great place for some really cool watches besides Rolex too.

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[fmc000]

Nice post OP.

Originally Posted by superdog

I just think, for me, I barely even want to wear one anymore.

Exactly, it's really the same for me: after decades with a Rolex on my left wrist nowadays I just don't see myself wearing one.

Originally Posted by superdog

I don’t want to be seen with one on.

That's a bit harsh IMHO but I get the feeling.

[garyk]

You realize what’s discussed on this forum in most cases is speculation, imagination, innuendo and not necessarily anything close to what is actually going on in the world of Rolex, their ADs or their sales associates. I worked for an AD in marketing in the early 2000s to just a few years ago and most of what I have read on this forum is really non factual. I was in a fairly horrific Harley wreck in the mid 80s caused by a woman jogger and her big dog jogging along a 4 lane road with no leash. When my lawyers received an offer of settlement of $10,000 from the lady’s insurance company to pay for my hospitalization, my destroyed new Harley and my new Rolex YG President which also had been destroyed, my attorney said, his Rolex is worth more than that amount! That is the only time I have ever heard anyone bring up wearing a Rolex and the money!

[GoingPlaces]

The current Rolex climate is definitely off-putting. Also exhausting. So many threads on "how do I establish a relationship with an AD", or "I'm on the list, how long?", or "I'm next". It's quite insane if you ask me. Social media doesn't help, Rolex has become more about status than a celebration of life achievement or just the simple enjoyment of the brand.

Yes Seth, I agree that there are so many other great brands to pursue and maybe it's time to move on as well. It has to be nice to be able to walk into a watch store and just buy something that you really like that day and walk out with it!

[nyyankees]

Seems like a fair point of view. I certainly miss the days when these watches were much more affordable (relatively speaking). The increased market prices I think at least can be rationalized by buyers who can have some level of confidence that the value of their watch will likely increase over time. However I have to say the prices I suspect put many in a position where they don’t really want more than one Rolex. Personally my bet is that Rolex is good with all of this and has a plan which includes establishing Tudor as a major player and pushing the exclusivity of Rolex. I bet they even transition to boutiques only. All speculation of course on my part and opinions will vary.


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[Chester01]

Your points are well thought out and I largely agree. I got called out the other day by a member for coming across as bashing many models and I guess I was. There have been Many Rolex wearers in my family but they got the bulk of the in the 80 and 90’s when you can walk in and get what you like. I do not find myself moved at all by the 6 digit offerings. However unlike many here I have always owned and enjoyed a variety of brands. In recent years I have become uncomfortable with what Rolex represents and so have been wearing more of my other brands more often, to the point that I gave one away and the my sub has been in the bench for all but 1 day in the past 5 months. I mean the hype is bad when when a random 12 year old looks at your wrist and says woah, is that a Rolex? (True story happened at work). The only part in the op post that I do wonder how much control Rolex has over what is going on. I mean jewelry sales have dried up over the past 10 years and AD need to sell many watches to make their nut, one way to make their nut it to see bulk to The gray market. Boom 10 sales in one day, where they may have worked 2 weeks to move that many watches. So Rolex can control some of your concerns such as passing off slight upgrades and being lazy, but how much control they have over the gray market and independent AD’s is open to question.

[nGage7962]

I miss the days when you could walk in to an AD and see more than a TT Datejust and even more than that, actually buy a SS Sports Model. That is EXACTLY how I bought my DSSD. I have the money to buy other models from Grey dealers, but the premium above MSRP rubs me the wrong way and leaves me with a dwindling interest in the Rolex brand.
Of course, none of that has any bearing on whether their strategy is working or not.
It does leave me a little sad that I am crossing off my list a couple of SS Models that I would otherwise have been very exited to go in to a store and buy.

[Ranger67]

Many many years ago seeing a Sub in a magazine I knew then if and when I can afford a luxury watch it will be a Rolex and most probably a Sub, when I reached this point I set on a path to acquire one, after trying for 2.75 years I finally got one, it is what I wanted I do not care what anybody else thinks why should I, it’s for my enjoyment only, if people make an assumption about me due to my watch that’s their choice. Due to the long wait I did think about other brands but knew I wouldn’t be happy with anything else.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

The current Rolex climate is definitely off-putting. Also exhausting.

I think the climate might appear off putting to someone who was casually scoping the market place. The actual situation depends on a lot of factors. You won't know until you invest time and effort in personal research. If that appears exhausting, there are plenty of brands that one can walk in and buy today. Or buy on line direct from the manufacturer or via a local AD.

I suppose that on the upside, if all the venting, complaining and conspiracy theories put off a significant number of potential purchasers, those with the will, a plan, a contingency plan, and sufficient patience will be kept waiting less.

[DaveDhc]

The essence of Rolex for me is the Oyster Perpetual - time only three hand center seconds, stainless steel, on a bracelet.

You can buy them below suggested retail all day long - no wait.

The oyster perpetual at $5000 is the same mechanical quality as their $40,000 watches.

Their 36mm and 34mm are perfect in my opinion.

Love Rolex, no hate here.