I think Rolex jumped the shark

[cwilson13]

An alternative is to focus on 5 digit Rolexes.
Such great pieces. Not yet vintage but more neo-classic.
Many can be had for pretty close to the retail price of their current model siblings (other then maybe Daytona’s).
They also give off a different vibe and no AD non-sense.
If I see a person wearing a GMT 16700 or Sub 16610 or an Explorer II 16570 polar, good chance they appreciate a great watch (...or they got it as a gift, it’s their only watch and have no idea what model it even is!).

[joeychitwood]

I agree with many of your points, Seth. I got into collecting Rolex watches when they were easily obtainable. I did a ton of scuba diving and enjoyed the brand. I’ve bought and sold a lot of Rolexes, but your post reminds me that I only own five digit models. I’ve not been interested in the vast majority of their new models or materials.

In the meantime, however, I’ve been drawn to other brands for their quality and visual appeal, like Tudor, Ball, Luminox and Seiko. If I’m honest, my favorite watch right now is my Seiko PADI Turtle. $259. Built like a block of steel. Great looking.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by davedhc

the essence of rolex for me is the oyster perpetual - time only three hand center seconds, stainless steel, on a bracelet.

You can buy them below suggested retail all day long - no wait.

The oyster perpetual at $5000 is the same mechanical quality as their $40,000 watches.

Their 36mm and 34mm are perfect in my opinion.

Love rolex, no hate here.

+1

[1William]

Great post Seth and an interesting ongoing conversation. I say ok to your thoughts and comments and would not offer a counter as this is what is right for you from where you sit right now. I have been in the watch game as a collector/buyer/wearer/flipper and any other terms to be put into it for 30 years. I have gone from Rolex is the only brand to, I only own one and it get's no wear because Panerai is it. I have been able to take the emotion out of watches, not that I don't love them, just the part where I see it as a measure of who I am and what I have achieved. Now it is about the fun of the hunt, the deal, ownership and wear. If someone tells me that they like a brand and explains it to me, I say great for you. If someone insults me for a watch, I say ok, you are entitled to your opinion but I wear what I want, when I want. The AD's, Rolex, The Grey's are what they are. The market is what it is and the prices are what they are. Get over it, it is not personal and a lot of people appear to see the current situation as a personal slight. Once again, the market is not about you. Observations are great but the incessant whining and complaining about prices and availability goes directly to an entitlement mentality by some that makes them think they should go to the front of the line just because that is what is fair. In the end, enjoy your watches, buy what you want and can afford and respect others for what they choose to own and wear. I like watches/cars/friends for what they are, not what they are not. Apply that and you maybe more satisfied with all of it.

[Dan Pierce]

Seth,

A very thoughtful post with many observations hitting home for me as well. Really appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
dP

[Wahlberg]

@superdog

Posts like yours is the reason why I frequent this forum less. It's the constant whining and nagging.

You are criticizing people that just buy the watch because it's a Rolex, who cares? I focus on my own life, not on someone else's. This is nothing new, even in the 80s people bought Rolex because it's a Rolex and you simply had to have it if you worked at a certain place or frequented certain circles.

Your rant isn't going to change anything, at all, ever. Just enjoy what you like, buy those watches since there are 1000 brands and 10000 different references and be done with it.

Some people really put too much time and effort in watches. It's just a watch that tells the time, don't get so worked up.

[MagPI]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

I agree with many of your points, Seth. I got into collecting Rolex watches when they were easily obtainable. I did a ton of scuba diving and enjoyed the brand. I’ve bought and sold a lot of Rolexes, but your post reminds me that I only own five digit models. I’ve not been interested in the vast majority of their new models or materials.

In the meantime, however, I’ve been drawn to other brands for their quality and visual appeal, like Tudor, Ball, Luminox and Seiko. If I’m honest, my favorite watch right now is my Seiko PADI Turtle. $259. Built like a block of steel. Great looking.

This guy gets it.

[JRell]

Thought about this last night and today I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, so I apologize in advance. Rolex is not the problem, WE are the problem. They are great watches. Both of quality and appearance. Great! We like them so much we buy another. We like them even more and buy more. Then we start a collection and think, do I need a blue dial, white dial, jubilee, PM, do I have sea/air/land? Then we can’t decide and we come here for others opinions. Then we see posts like this, there are other brands out there, Rolex is snobbish, the maxi case is for the bling bling society, I am only buying 5 digits, seriously? Now we question what we have. I spent hours last night comparing my 114060 lugs to the slightly more tapered new gmt. I showed my wife the difference and she seriously could not tell, and my concern is what about the new sub that could be coming out. This is a sickness. I get a forum to enjoy the watches, share cool stories. But lately this forum has been a downer. Maybe because of COVID we all have too much time on our hands. I bet if this forum didn’t exist we all would have our watches and be happier. This is not about Rolex. It is about something we are missing and feel that next watch will fix. It won’t. Btw no one cares what we wear, other than us on this forum which we probably will never meet. I am just as much to blame as everyone else. I force my opinions to justify my own watch choices. I say Rolex is the best and never even seen inside the watch. No more. I am going to get off this forum, go make money, and buy a daytona!

[Hollie_Rollie]

Well said Seth! I agree with you on many of the points you made. Lots of other fish in the sea though, I just placed a bid on a Panerai carbotech and an IWC BP. Both at a significant discount from MSRP.

[sgwatchguy]

Rolex wasn’t my entry into watches and won’t be the last brand I buy. I have acquired other brands and will continue to do so, as recently as earlier this year. So I’m not close to being a fanboi.

There’s plenty of innovation that comes out of Rolex, at a slow pace. That’s fine with me. I actually prefer NOT to see rapid obsolescence cycles being introduced into mechanical watches. If heaps of innovation in every release is desired, then yes perhaps Rolex isn’t the brand you should look at.

The company and brand itself is doing OK. There’s more people being turned on than being turned off and till that continues Rolex will do just fine. Just like they did fine before the hordes of social media influenced buyers got keen on the brand.

[Brny11]

Originally Posted by superdog

Can’t get em. Treats their dealers badly. Minimal creativity and imagination. Disdains their clientele. Deigns to grace us with pics of the watches you can’t get. This enormous crowd that thinks they are special because they wear a Rolex.

Tudor = cool.
Breitling = cool.
Omega = cool.
VC = super cool
I’m even thinking hublots are cool lately.

When I see a Rolex on someone now, I wonder if they like watches, or if they just want the brand. When I see something else on someone, I start to think they might be actually cool watch person.

I appreciate the post, but literally only agree with one point, that there are other cool watch brands.

I don’t know how they treat their ADs, so I won’t comment there.

In one sentence you say their genius, and in the next, you criticize their lack of creativity. Rolex has had the same business model for a hundred years, and it is genius. If you want creativity, there are tons of brands for you. Rolex does incrimental improvements, while maintaining classic design. Nothing more or less. You are forgetting that in luxury jewelry, an infinitesimally small detail can represent thousands in value (I.e. flat 4, or the ridiculous APH dial). Outside of watches, the difference between a 1,000 or 10,000 diamond of same size can’t not even be seen unless under a scope.

Also, ANYTHING that represents success, is flaunted by 99% and only appreciated by a mere 1% in a historical (or collectible) context. You can judge people based on your misguided bias, but I choose to appreciate other people’s taste, even if they are not enthusiasts like I am.

Finally, when you say treat their clientele poorly, your likely not their clientele, unfortunately. They treat their clientele VERY well. The people who buy their products, typically get what they want. People like me, who dream of having every watch, but only purchased a few, are not important to them. Sucks for me, but doesn’t really matter to Rolex. I can hate on them, or spend more money and likely get whatever I desire.

[HedgeHogger]

Originally Posted by Chester01

Y.....but how much control they have over the gray market and independent AD’s is open to question....

This really is a double edged sword. I suspect the best customers for AD's are gray market buyers. I assume those buyers build relationships and because they buy so many they get first priority from the AD when a desirable model arrives.

I also suspect some less scrupulous AD's prioritize their gray market buyers because the AD gets some sort of kick-back when the gray market buyer sells the watch (I have no proof of this, I just suspect it).

As suggested by others above, the answer to this may simply be for Rolex to start only selling their watches through boutiques so they can make some attempt at ensuring the watches go to end-users rather than flippers/gray-marketers.

What if in order to be able to buy an "in demand" model the AD or Boutique required the potential purchaser to prove they still own the last in-demand Rolex they purchased? Who knows, the solution to this problem is not immediately obvious, but it remains a problem in any case.

I don't mind the watches having limited supply. I do however wish that there was some way to cut-out the gray-market dealer, even if that means Rolex allowed AD's to sell at "market price" rather than MSRP (which all of the dealers in the Middle East seem to do anyway).

[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

@superdog

Posts like yours is the reason why I frequent this forum less. It's the constant whining and nagging.

You are criticizing people that just buy the watch because it's a Rolex, who cares? I focus on my own life, not on someone else's. This is nothing new, even in the 80s people bought Rolex because it's a Rolex and you simply had to have it if you worked at a certain place or frequented certain circles.

Your rant isn't going to change anything, at all, ever. Just enjoy what you like, buy those watches since there are 1000 brands and 10000 different references and be done with it.

Some people really put too much time and effort in watches. It's just a watch that tells the time, don't get so worked up.

How is this rant any different

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

How is this rant any different

Perhaps because I don't post it constantly and force my opinion upon others and make topics about it?

Just stop complaining how the current market is and do whatever you please. Either you buy something new, something from a grey, something vintage or something from a different brand or don't buy at all. Everyone is happy. Not everyone needs to read this over and over and over again. This topic and rants like his have been discussed 1000 times over.

I come here to learn and enjoy, that's why I read the vintage forums more. This is a hobby for me but all you read about is people complaining.

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by betterwatchit

The small proportion of showy, boastful, vulgar people who post on social media, sing in rap songs, talk about their watches as if the watcher should be impressed ... well, they just kill the brand for me. So, I rarely wear my Rolex anymore.

Originally Posted by Nanasaka90

I've decided to wear my Timex Ironman to work from now on, I've realized the stigma of wearing a Rolex cannot always be overcome with common sense.

Is Rolex the offender here?

- - -

It brings up an interesting question on why some take a brand and make it so intensely personal? If you’re trying so hard to see the brand reflect who you are, or have others judge you by association... you are bound to be offended or disappointed at one time or another.

[JRell]

Originally Posted by sgwatchguy

Is Rolex the offender here?

- - -

It brings up an interesting question on why some take a brand and make it so intensely personal? If you’re trying so hard to see the brand reflect who you are, or have others judge you by association... you are bound to be offended or disappointed at one time or another.

Agree! It is like if you don’t like Rolex anymore, just don’t wear/own them! It is that simple. I used to like adidas and don’t anymore. Guess what, I buy Nike and certainly don’t go to an Adidas blog and say their shoes are awful. One other point, about the rap culture, why can’t those artist express their love for the brand? Who ever said that, would you prefer they get together for tea and crumpets and discuss movement preference instead? This is getting insane.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

As a social signalling asset, they’re great.

Because anyone can acquire a Rolex today and feel like a tripod.

And that’s why they’re popular. It’s that simple.

might need to add that to my signature to be enshrined

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Perhaps because I don't post it constantly and force my opinion upon others and make topics about it?

Just stop complaining how the current market is and do whatever you please. Either you buy something new, something from a grey, something vintage or something from a different brand or don't buy at all. Everyone is happy. Not everyone needs to read this over and over and over again. This topic and rants like his have been discussed 1000 times over.

I come here to learn and enjoy, that's why I read the vintage forums more. This is a hobby for me but all you read about is people complaining.

I really have a dislike for abstract art. I’m not sure how much sense it would make for me to go to a museum filled with abstract art and criticize those people standing there looking at it. It makes much more sense for me not to go to a museum filled with abstract art. Why are you in this thread?

Seth, you make some excellent points. The AD’s most certainly do treat people, at least new people, pretty poorly and I have witnessed this firsthand in many different boutiques. I have established relationships with a half a dozen Rolex boutiques as well as a buying history so I am treated a little different. Rolex corporate certainly has crapped on the AD’s also. They have closed down many loyal and long term authorized dealers and that is sad.

I currently have 8 different brands in my collection and looking to add more. Lots more besides Rolex out there for sure.

[HedgeHogger]

Originally Posted by sgwatchguy

...It brings up an interesting question on why some take a brand and make it so intensely personal? ....

I'm quoting you out of context, nothing personal, its just that this part of your post highlights an important reality that what clothes you wear, watch you wear, car you drive, etc can reflect how others see and treat you (unfortunately).

The employee who drives a 911 to work every day and parks among the Tauruses is going to have to deal with a certain category of preconceived notions, some positive, some negative. Rolexes have that same problem.

I was in a meeting recently where a contractor had come to us to explain why he has been unable to pay his employees and subcontractors for the past two months. He had the gall to wear his Patek Philippe Nautilus Perpetual Calendar (a +$150K watch). No one else on my side of the table is a watch dork so that didn't raise any eyebrows (other than mine). They were outraged after the meeting when I explained the value of that watch.

If he had worn a gold and diamond encrusted Rolex, I bet others would have been outraged immediately.

If he had worn a G-shock or Timex, or even an Apple watch, he might have earned a bit of sympathy with his woes of cash-flow problems.

[Justinmg]

Originally Posted by MagPI

I agree that the brand’s golden years are behind it. That’s why my two are from 2005 and 2007. For me, the six-digit sports models marked the beginning of the end of Rolex as a “cool” watch brand.

100% agree iv said it many times, I say Rolex lost there way when the boxes and pamphlets went from pictures of divers and adventures to bland jewelry box’s. Iv sold most of my Rolex and stick to my 58. It’s as close as you can get to a new Rolex from the past without breaking the bank.

[JRell]

Let’s build a time machine, go back 40 years, build a bubble, close our eyes. That way the shameful ceramic bling won’t hurt our eyes. Anyone have access to 1.21 gagawatts?

[sechsgang]

It actually is funny, if I see any of the new Batman, Pepsi or Daytonas on someone, my first thought is that they are just in it for the hype unfortunately...doesn't mean all are, but the amount of people I know who just go for the easy hot piece because thats the in thing which are pretty much all like each other aside from minor nuances (ceramic bezel sport watch and change your complication) are crazy. This is why I love vintage Rolex...you've got to do a lot of research into specific pieces and there is rarely a singular vintage look, they all have nuance. One thing Rolex will always have and why collectors always have a couple modern ones is just that damn near perfect quality and usability, as such I still have a modern ceramic sub as its just brilliant...but I definitely can feel a bit of the OP's vibe!

[lkngshrp]

I have a subC from 2013 and a Daytona from late 2019. Both were bought to mark milestones in my life and I wear them both proudly wherever I go. I really don’t much care what anyone thinks about them or me for that matter. I was fortunate to buy the sub under MSRP and the Daytona at MSRP. There will never be a scenario where I would have overpaid for either in the grey market (up here in Toronto the prices are ridiculous). I would go without before buying grey. That said I’m not a collector and likely these are going to be my only two watches I own. I really don’t see the need to have more than these two. I do however agree with the OP insofar as the negative connotation the brand has with the Instagram generation. Fortunately for me my watches fly under the radar and as mentioned previously I could give 2fcuks what anyone thinks.

[JRell]

Originally Posted by lkngshrp

I have a subC from 2013 and a Daytona from late 2019. Both were bought to mark milestones in my life and I wear them both proudly wherever I go. I really don’t much care what anyone thinks about them or me for that matter. I was fortunate to buy the sub under MSRP and the Daytona at MSRP. There will never be a scenario where I would have overpaid for either in the grey market (up here in Toronto the prices are ridiculous). I would go without before buying grey. That said I’m not a collector and likely these are going to be my only two watches I own. I really don’t see the need to have more than these two. I do however agree with the OP insofar as the negative connotation the brand has with the Instagram generation. Fortunately for me my watches fly under the radar and as mentioned previously I could give 2fcuks what anyone thinks.

Best post of the year award.

[Roll the Lex]

I love my Rolex and still love the brand but the last watch I bought was an Omega. The games can get silly I agree, but I got what I want before the madness.

In some ways what Rolex has to offer, watch wise, is still the best in the business.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[powerfunk]

It's hard for me to fault Rolex too much for demand exceeding supply (there's no solution that will please everyone) but it's hard not to get a little discouraged I see so many posts about the "best way to build a relationship with an AD" from people who just want to buy their first Rolex. The shortage has been going on long enough now that the "game" has been totally normalized. I see "stop in once a month and chat" and other tips like that get regularly encouraged. I'm not into that; I just like watches, not watch purchasing strategies.

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by HedgeHogger

...part of your post highlights an important reality that what clothes you wear, watch you wear, car you drive, etc can reflect how others see and treat you (unfortunately).

You’re right, there’s a “guilty by association” factor always at play. But it comes down to an individual on whether to allow it to shape their own actions and decisions.

I know a number obnoxious a*holes that drive a brand of car and I see them wearing watches I dream of owning. Getting turned off on those brands is immature on my part.

I can understand the OP feels an emotional decoupling with Rolex and that’s fine. I feel however, it’s one’s own personal evolution and has little to do with Rolex itself. Did Rolex promise us never to sell a product to a certain type of buyer? Or to never raise prices? Or to only make tool watches with a requirement they be strictly used in a certain manner? No.

Did Rolex promise quality? Yes, and they deliver on that. They promise innovation and deliver on it. They promise recognition, and yes they deliver on that too.

[One&done]

Originally Posted by betterwatchit

The small proportion of showy, boastful, vulgar people who post on social media, sing in rap songs, talk about their watches as if the watcher should be impressed ... well, they just kill the brand for me. So, I rarely wear my Rolex.

I don’t know who those people are but, instead of not wearing your Rolex, would it not make more sense to not watch or listen to them?

Your Rolex is superb and deserves to be worn whereas those people seem somewhat less worthy of your time and attention. If they are so contemptible, why allow them to influence your choice of wristwatch? I just don’t get it.

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by JRell

One other point, about the rap culture, why can’t those artist express their love for the brand? Who ever said that, would you prefer they get together for tea and crumpets and discuss movement preference instead? This is getting insane.

Agree. It’s a very elitist notion and one that gets applied very selectively.

[JRell]

Originally Posted by sgwatchguy

Agree. It’s a very elitist notion and one that gets applied very selectively.

Thank you, I appreciate your comment.