Is the Root Beer a RIPOFF?

[vh2k]

The next watch my AD is supposed to hold for me is a GMT CHNR (lovingly called the Root Beer).

I was doing the math today... and this thing is pricey.

The regular steel GMT sells for $9,700. The CHNR is $14,800. That is a $5,100 premium over the steel model. Yes, 52.5% more.

Isn’t the case EXACTLY the same as the steel model but with a Brown/Black bezel?

The bracelet is TT RG... but $5,100 difference just for that???

So, I ask... do you think the pricing makes sense or is the Root Beer a RIPOFF?

[mbc]

the bezel is Everose as well

[jgottsman11]

Not a watch I would ever consider buying, but given what it is, I'd say it's priced relatively fairly in comparison to the stainless GMT

[Etschell]

You realize stainless steel isnt worth 9k right??

It isnt a rip off but i wouldnt buy one.

[horseShu]

It's a luxury product. If you don't agree with the price, then you don't have to buy it.

As you said, the steel GMT sells for 9.7k
Do you know how cheap steel is?? Don't you think the steel models are ripoffs too?

[vh2k]

Originally Posted by mbc

the bezel is Everose as well

True, but it’s not a fluted bezel like you find on a DJ. It’s an Everose shell with the Cerachrom bezel insert.

[synrrgy]

It's a nice watch but I'm not a TT fan. So at this point in my life, I don't think I would buy it.

[Tools]

Prices are based on supply and demand, not that something else that looks a lot like it is priced differently, or that there is some base price and everything else is only added on at cost.

Of course, that gold color isn't just paint, it's solid gold all the way through.

[Chester01]

Ripoff, lol. Thats quite subjective. There are plenty of Seiko's around that that are as tough as Rolex and made of the same raw materials and cost a whole lot less. Since becoming interested in Rolex, these things have shot up in price so fast and so far past what would be expected by inflation its bananas. I mean, for me personally, the faster rolex shoots up, the more I look at a brand like GS, and thats where I ask myself what am I paying for with Rolex here exactly.

And listen, the public agrees. The vast majority here will balk at paying 8k for a navitimer which has far, and I mean far more heritage than a daytona, more functional and legible too, but will gladly fling 13k on a daytona or even be happy to spend 25k at a gray market. How much did we hear people crying about the cost of the new 321 speedy pro? I mean, seriously??? The thing is low production and one of the most legendary movements in the history of watch making, used in PP, VC, and AP and again has real and not made up heritage.

[daOnlyBG]

Here's some food for thought. None of us know why Rolex charges what Rolex charges. I'm thinking you have a better chance of finding a top-clearance CIA file than the official economic breakdown of a steel GMT or a two-tone GMT.

MSRP aside, though, look at the market prices. On the street, a 126710BLRO can cost you between $16K-$18K. A 126710BLNR will cost you a couple thousand less.

Without waiting too long, however, you can nab a two-tone GMT for $14.8K at a dealership, either in line or cheaper than the stainless steel GMTs at street price. Sure, we're convoluting the root beer's MSRP with the others' street prices, but given that the street price of the rootbeer is only a nominal amount and the AD wait time is low, the point stands: you're actually getting gold for the same market price.

So is it worth it? The root beer's non-financial merits aside, of course.

[mondec]

Did you know the full RG version is $38,250? So for just a bit less gold, you save a whopping $23,450! The TT is a bargain!

The market price of the TT CHNR is about the same as the steel BLRO. Given the same cost, I prefer the CHNR. I like its look over the Pepsi or Batman. Being able to realistically buy one at an AD with my name on the card is also a nice bonus.

[42itus]

You can't justify the priced based on the value of the metal. So if you look at it from your point of view then I guess you could say it's overpriced but then the slope gets more slippery the more PM that is added to the equation.

[Rick Deckard]

The Rootbeer is quite a bargain compared to the steel model. You should buy one before Rolex figures this out. Let me explain and simplify:

Let us assume that the stainless steel GMT weighs about 160 grams and, quite frankly, the watch is mostly steel and other non-precious metals in the movement as well, so we will assume the stainless GMT to consist of 160 grams of steel. Purchased in bulk, high quality stainless steel like 304 is around $2,000 per ton, so around $2 per kg or 32 cents for the 160 grams needed for a stainless steel GMT.

The stainless steel GMT therefore has a material value of $0.002 per gram of the watch and at $9,700 for the watch, the stainless steel GMT is 30,313 times more expensive than the material.

Let us further assume that the Rootbeer GMT weighs about 180 grams, so for simplicity let's assume it's just an extra 20 grams of 18k gold you get with the Rootbeer, so 15 grams (or half an ounce of pure gold). Gold is $1,800 an ounce, so half of that is $900 worth of gold. Add to that the 32 cents for the steel in the rest of the watch and you get a raw material value of $900.32 for the Rootbeer.

The Rootbeer GMT therefore has a material value of $5.00 per gram of the watch and at $14,800 for the watch, the Rootbeer is only 16.4 times more expensive than the material.

The Rootbeer is a STEAL! You are getting so much more for your money.

PS: Seriously, if this is the way you approach expensive watches, you need to find a different hobby.

[marcusp23]

You’d have to make the same argument about the Bluesy. Yes, they’re priced differently

[Rashid.bk]

Ha, luxury pricing concerns?
You’re overthinking it, in this case you’re not only paying for gold.
With any luxury item, you’re paying for the opportunity to use the “name”, Goyard, LV, Yeezy, etc, and in this case Rolex. If it were just gold, it be a mere $2k.

Check the price on the SD43s, Daytona or YMs. It’s always about a $5k plus on average.
You’re paying “the tax”.

Patek charges $30k plus for ss watch!!

[vh2k]

Originally Posted by Rick Deckard

The Rootbeer is quite a bargain compared to the steel model. You should buy one before Rolex figures this out. Let me explain and simplify:

Let us assume that the stainless steel GMT weighs about 160 grams and, quite frankly, the watch is mostly steel and other non-precious metals in the movement as well, so we will assume the stainless GMT to consist of 160 grams of steel. Purchased in bulk, high quality stainless steel like 304 is around $2,000 per ton, so around $2 per kg or 32 cents for the 160 grams needed for a stainless steel GMT.

The stainless steel GMT therefore has a material value of $0.002 per gram of the watch and at $9,700 for the watch, the stainless steel GMT is 30,313 times more expensive than the material.

Let us further assume that the Rootbeer GMT weighs about 180 grams, so for simplicity let's assume it's just an extra 20 grams of 18k gold you get with the Rootbeer, so 15 grams (or half an ounce of pure gold). Gold is $1,800 an ounce, so half of that is $900 worth of gold. Add to that the 32 cents for the steel in the rest of the watch and you get a raw material value of $900.32 for the Rootbeer.

The Rootbeer GMT therefore has a material value of $5.00 per gram of the watch and at $14,800 for the watch, the Rootbeer is only 16.4 times more expensive than the material.

The Rootbeer is a STEAL! You are getting so much more for your money.

PS: Seriously, if this is the way you approach expensive watches, you need to find a different hobby.

Love the analytical COGS justification. Well done!

[vh2k]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

Here's some food for thought. None of us know why Rolex charges what Rolex charges. I'm thinking you have a better chance of finding a top-clearance CIA file than the official economic breakdown of a steel GMT or a two-tone GMT.

MSRP aside, though, look at the market prices. On the street, a 126710BLRO can cost you between $16K-$18K. A 126710BLNR will cost you a couple thousand less.

Without waiting too long, however, you can nab a two-tone GMT for $14.8K at a dealership, either in line or cheaper than the stainless steel GMTs at street price. Sure, we're convoluting the root beer's MSRP with the others' street prices, but given that the street price of the rootbeer is only a nominal amount and the AD wait time is low, the point stands: you're actually getting gold for the same market price.

So is it worth it? The root beer's non-financial merits aside, of course.

Thoughtful perspective. Thanks for the reply.

[Jpccarguy]

Many material items speak to us in person. A Ferrari is a work of art... overpriced? Yes. But you have to see/drive one to appreciate it. No way to put a realistic value on it.

I saw my first CHNR not long ago. Before that, I thought it was too bling-y, and I never thought I would wear something that's rose gold. But, now that I saw it... I really want one. No way to put a realistic value on it. If you haven't seen one on the wrist, you don't know.

[Yess]

All Rolex watches are "over priced".

You can get a Grand Seiko/Omega equivalent of most Rolex watches at a much cheaper price point new... (objectively a lot of these watches from other brands are "better" timepieces). If you go used or grey that price point is exponentially disproportionate.

But that's not how many of us buy things! If we did, yeah that old saying, an $8 Casio, or a G-Shock would be what we'd buy.

No use trying to make sense of pricing on a luxury item - no matter what it is - it would just drive you mad.

[Chewbacca]

I’ve never had to do math to know ahead of time that most every Rolex is pricey.

But I get what you’re getting at.

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by Rick Deckard

The Rootbeer is quite a bargain compared to the steel model. You should buy one before Rolex figures this out. Let me explain and simplify:

Let us assume that the stainless steel GMT weighs about 160 grams and, quite frankly, the watch is mostly steel and other non-precious metals in the movement as well, so we will assume the stainless GMT to consist of 160 grams of steel. Purchased in bulk, high quality stainless steel like 304 is around $2,000 per ton, so around $2 per kg or 32 cents for the 160 grams needed for a stainless steel GMT.

The stainless steel GMT therefore has a material value of $0.002 per gram of the watch and at $9,700 for the watch, the stainless steel GMT is 30,313 times more expensive than the material.

Let us further assume that the Rootbeer GMT weighs about 180 grams, so for simplicity let's assume it's just an extra 20 grams of 18k gold you get with the Rootbeer, so 15 grams (or half an ounce of pure gold). Gold is $1,800 an ounce, so half of that is $900 worth of gold. Add to that the 32 cents for the steel in the rest of the watch and you get a raw material value of $900.32 for the Rootbeer.

The Rootbeer GMT therefore has a material value of $5.00 per gram of the watch and at $14,800 for the watch, the Rootbeer is only 16.4 times more expensive than the material.

The Rootbeer is a STEAL! You are getting so much more for your money.

PS: Seriously, if this is the way you approach expensive watches, you need to find a different hobby.

Bravo!
Not that I needed to feel better or validated about my choice of the CHNR, but you’ve made me feel a wee bit happier and thank you for that, Rick!

Seriously, OP. It’s a beautiful understated readily available (relatively) timepiece that is still difficult to see in the wild. If you need that much analysis to help convince you, then may I suggest a Casio jk. I’m sure you’ll love it, $ for $ it’s better value than paying ridiculous premiums for some SS hot pieces.

[Boothroyd]

I think Dad's root beer is worth the money. I never liked Hire's root beer. A&W has great root beer, if you get it in the mug at the restaurant. But Dad's is my favorite--I think it's worth it.

[JSCP]

You are paying for Design and Rolex brand etc , paying for best design which GRand Seiko and Omega cannot match, then for Patek you pay for Design and manufacture.

It’s about the design steel or TT or all gold. High Design = desirability then Design is beyond the metal.

Enjoy if you can afford if not find a a nice Timex.

[bay-dweller]

Posted this a few weeks ago. Not to many people were interested...

Density/ Specific Gravity/ Scrap Cost / Retail Markup

I was curious why Rolex doesn't list the weight of their watches on their website. They offer quite a bit of technical information, but nothing about weight.

I started thinking it has something to do with the scrap value of their watches. I think most of us know that gold is worth much more than platinum now, so releasing the weight of PM watches might cause some shoppers to reconsider. Its the only explanation that makes sense to me.

So I snooped around a little bit and found some interesting information on scrap price and metal density. With these numbers, we can extrapolate quite a bit.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not an expert in Materials Engineering and I'm pulling info from questionable sources.

18K gold has a density of approximately 16g/cc.
904L steel has a density of approximately 8g/cc.
18K gold scrap value is approximately $41/g.

The ceramic GMT weighs 152g (SS), 170g (TT), and 221g (18K)

The calculation is pretty simple. If the TT weighs 18g more than the SS and it has the same volume, it has 36g of 18K gold on it. The RG/WG version weighs 51g more than the TT, so it has an additional 102g of 18K gold. The RG/WG models should have a total of 138g of 18K gold and the movement/ sapphire should weigh about 83g.

The TT ceramic GMT would cost the factory about $1,485 more to produce than a SS version. The factory marks this up to a $3,000 increase at the wholesale level and the dealer adds on another $2,000.

The RG/WG ceramic GMT would cost the factory about $4,200 more to produce than the TT version. The factory marks this up to a $14,000 increase at the wholesale level and the dealer adds on another $9,450.

Backing into production costs, it seems like a TT watch probably has a manufacturing cost about 29% of retail price and an 18K watch has a manufacturing cost about 18% of retail. I have nothing to back this up, but I would assume a SS model would have a manufacturing cost 35-40% of retail price as cheaper models usually have lower margins.

Considering these watches are luxury goods, Rolex watches seem to have a modest amount of profit built into their retail price.

[Rick Deckard]

Originally Posted by sgwatchguy

Bravo!
Not that I needed to feel better or validated about my choice of the CHNR, but you’ve made me feel a wee bit happier.

Glad to be of service!

9 out of 10 people are turning into believers when they see the watch in real life for the first time. Mine was a purchase on the back of an unexpected AD call and I enjoy it every time I look at it. It's a beautiful understatement and the combination of black, brown and the everose gold is perfect.

[Nidal]

Originally Posted by horseShu

It's a luxury product. If you don't agree with the price, then you don't have to buy it.

As you said, the steel GMT sells for 9.7k
Do you know how cheap steel is?? Don't you think the steel models are ripoffs too?

Ditto
Not to mention the SS one now is 16k in the black/gray market whatever you call it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nidal]

Want to talk common sense here
An Apple Watch for 400$ has a million more function and usability than Rolex.
There is a lot of marketing and stigma in this kind of industry. And I own 12 Rollie’s btw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Carry The Interest]

First and foremost - you’ll never be satisfied if you’re trying to justify the price of a watch, especially if you’re trying to do so by comparing it to another.

Buy what you love (assuming you’re financially comfortable in doing so) while using some common sense.

That being said, if we’re comparing numbers, see below for a little summary table I just put together. If you think the price of a TT sub is “justified”, then you should have no problem with the price of the TT GMT (vs its SS variant). It’s a $5,100 increase in MSRP, which is actually less than the increase in a TT Sub on an absolute ($) and relative (%) basis. If you look at full PM models, RG variants are more expensive than their YG counterparts. If you consider that, you could potentially make the argument that a TT GMT is actually a “better deal” than a TT Sub!

[Texex]

Originally Posted by Rick Deckard

The Rootbeer is quite a bargain compared to the steel model. You should buy one before Rolex figures this out. Let me explain and simplify:

Let us assume that the stainless steel GMT weighs about 160 grams and, quite frankly, the watch is mostly steel and other non-precious metals in the movement as well, so we will assume the stainless GMT to consist of 160 grams of steel. Purchased in bulk, high quality stainless steel like 304 is around $2,000 per ton, so around $2 per kg or 32 cents for the 160 grams needed for a stainless steel GMT.

The stainless steel GMT therefore has a material value of $0.002 per gram of the watch and at $9,700 for the watch, the stainless steel GMT is 30,313 times more expensive than the material.

Let us further assume that the Rootbeer GMT weighs about 180 grams, so for simplicity let's assume it's just an extra 20 grams of 18k gold you get with the Rootbeer, so 15 grams (or half an ounce of pure gold). Gold is $1,800 an ounce, so half of that is $900 worth of gold. Add to that the 32 cents for the steel in the rest of the watch and you get a raw material value of $900.32 for the Rootbeer.

The Rootbeer GMT therefore has a material value of $5.00 per gram of the watch and at $14,800 for the watch, the Rootbeer is only 16.4 times more expensive than the material.

The Rootbeer is a STEAL! You are getting so much more for your money.

PS: Seriously, if this is the way you approach expensive watches, you need to find a different hobby.

Thanks Chris, this was an entertaining read. I think I actually want one now.

[bleighs]

What is overpriced is the Batman, Pepsi, Daytona, Hulk. The Rootbeer is selling at around 2k above retail, way less than those 4 models which are between 4k to 8k above. If anything, the Rootbeer is underpriced.