Can a PP knowledgable person explain to a Dorklehead like me..WHY cut the Nautilus?

[Rushne]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

I know it’s just me but each time you post pics of that Octo I just think Yuk. Sorry, but at least you like it and that’s the only thing that counts. My $12,000 will be going to Patek, but enjoy your Octo in good health.

Originally Posted by fsprow

I believe Steven just needs to promote starting a Bulgari subgroup. The Octo is not appealing to me either.

I would have agreed with both of you before I actually saw and tried on the steel Octo. It’s actually extremely nice in the steel. Photos just don’t do the watch justice.

To be fair years ago I thought the same of the Aquanaut until 5 years ago a friend of a friend let me have a look at his 5167 and my god it totally changed my view of it.

The Octo is a pretty unique design and with a 6.4mm case and 100m WR, it really is a flexible luxury sport watch.
But Bulgari in the dial will always have people sort of in the back foot I think. If it had AP on the dial, then people would go a bit more mental for it I’d guess.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by francoamerican

As far as tech - I am uninterested in new tech in what I buy for nostalgic beauty, and I actually would prefer movements were just made as close to as they were in 1950s as possible. I am not the only consumer with this opinion. I wish my Patek had a metal balance spring, for example.

Where I do agree with you is tech as it relates to aesthetics. Meaning it’s disgraceful that many of the current perpetual calendar and perpetual caliber chrono have shrunken numbers to upsize the case but use old or shared movements at that cost. Or that the 5196 uses the wrong sized movements.

Many thanks for your kindness in your post and after a long discussion with a watch friend think you're right. Patek is doing fine, no one seems to mind where they are, and where they may be going, and their seemingly endless limited editions with little actually changing.

It's me who is more into moving the mechanical mechanism forward with new tech and creative construction. That might not be the same goals as PP of course. If you're going old-school, then do it all the way as best as possible like FPJ and other true independents do imho.

Patek is doing fine with adhering to their own set of standards, even at the cost of perhaps the industry's shortest warranty period, and just rock 'n' roll dials, movements, and hands for new pieces (and a case mod here or there). That's Patek, and guess i'm no longer a Patek guy as am seeking more refreshing, modern tech and design to make the very best mechanical timepiece possible. Sure, add in some very creative mechanics while they're at it, like the Sky-Dweller for setting month/date/time/etc for example. A brilliant movement that SkyD!

Guess MB&F is my next go-to for true creativity, FPJ for perhaps the very best in hand-made classic build by a true independent, and other brands for what they do best.

So yes, again thanks for your kindness and it is me who had to come to the realization that staying in a rut of Patek was taking me nowhere special really. Many brands are doing some impressive stuff (OMEGA with their moving Snoopy on the back is sweet, yet passed when i was offered one). So am very picky, it's me, and of course my choice as to what i want, and what is passed upon as other things seem far better in my eyes.

[Moka-Tiger]

Thierry can do what he wants and make what he wants. It's his choice. But, just because he makes what HE wants to sell, doesn't necessarily mean that those watches are what CONSUMERS want. Thierry can discontinue the 5711 and make as many fancy complications and PM watches as he wants. He can admire them adorning the ADs and boutiques. And at the same time see them collect dust. If these types of watches are not what is in demand in the current market, does he expect people to buy them because that is what he wants PP to sell?

PP has sat on its laurels for years making PM complications, while the market went in another direction. While Thierry doesn't like the idea that PP has become a "one watch brand", there is not much he can do about it now. In my opinion, he should milk the 5711 and derivatives as much as he can, in a way that advances the brand while tweaking the watch range in tune to the market.

I too, like others, used to admire PP much more. Having a PP on my wrist felt special, so I collected 4. Then one day, I came out of the PP cloud and realized that PM complications, like other brands' complications, are regarded as ugly ducklings in today's market. I sold all but the 5711, but of course! It's really sad that all PP watches used to hold up their value on the secondary market because they were Pateks. But that is no longer the case and speaks for the current state of the brand.

So, it will be interesting to see what Thiery and PP does going forward.

[britxt0]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Many thanks for your kindness in your post and after a long discussion with a watch friend think you're right. Patek is doing fine, no one seems to mind where they are, and where they may be going, and their seemingly endless limited editions with little actually changing.



It's me who is more into moving the mechanical mechanism forward with new tech and creative construction. That might not be the same goals as PP of course. If you're going old-school, then do it all the way as best as possible like FPJ and other true independents do imho.



Patek is doing fine with adhering to their own set of standards, even at the cost of perhaps the industry's shortest warranty period, and just rock 'n' roll dials, movements, and hands for new pieces (and a case mod here or there). That's Patek, and guess i'm no longer a Patek guy as am seeking more refreshing, modern tech and design to make the very best mechanical timepiece possible. Sure, add in some very creative mechanics while they're at it, like the Sky-Dweller for setting month/date/time/etc for example. A brilliant movement that SkyD!



Guess MB&F is my next go-to for true creativity, FPJ for perhaps the very best in hand-made classic build by a true independent, and other brands for what they do best.



So yes, again thanks for your kindness and it is me who had to come to the realization that staying in a rut of Patek was taking me nowhere special really. Many brands are doing some impressive stuff (OMEGA with their moving Snoopy on the back is sweet, yet passed when i was offered one). So am very picky, it's me, and of course my choice as to what i want, and what is passed upon as other things seem far better in my eyes.

We just lost a brother...
You're right though, Patek needs to revisit the drawing board and move in a new direction.

[daOnlyBG]

I think people on this thread may be mistaken when they say "PP isn't cutting the model, they're just introducing a new reference with some tweaks."

Thierry Stern himself said that Patek Philippe is indeed ending the Nautilus- but that it will have "one last victory lap," implying that the next reference is indeed the last one.

[IBDOC]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

I think people on this thread may be mistaken when they say "PP isn't cutting the model, they're just introducing a new reference with some tweaks."

Thierry Stern himself said that Patek Philippe is indeed ending the Nautilus- but that it will have "one last victory lap," implying that the next reference is indeed the last one.

Ending one reference (5711) isn’t the same thing as ending the Nautilus.

[Murcielagoboy2]

I can’t help but laugh at some of the comments here - especially from those claiming that “the market” only wants Nautilus/Sports watches
Which market is that then? The YouTuber market? SoCal/South Florida/London?
Once this pandemic eases, I’d urge you to travel around a bit more and spend less time on social media and more with people who buy 3-4 Pateks and more per year - the “actual” market.


Secondly for those saying that Nautilus/Sports is all Thierry Stern should make, there was similar commercial whining in the early 80’s with people claiming QUARTZ is all Patek should make as it was what the “younger buyer” wanted blah blah blah

What has allowed PP to flourish is steadfastly refusing to bow to fads and the fickle whimsy of people claiming to represent “the market.”
Even their hottest product line is an outdated design from the 70’s.

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by Moka-Tiger

Thierry can do what he wants and make what he wants. It's his choice. But, just because he makes what HE wants to sell, doesn't necessarily mean that those watches are what CONSUMERS want. Thierry can discontinue the 5711 and make as many fancy complications and PM watches as he wants. He can admire them adorning the ADs and boutiques. And at the same time see them collect dust. If these types of watches are not what is in demand in the current market, does he expect people to buy them because that is what he wants PP to sell?

PP has sat on its laurels for years making PM complications, while the market went in another direction. While Thierry doesn't like the idea that PP has become a "one watch brand", there is not much he can do about it now. In my opinion, he should milk the 5711 and derivatives as much as he can, in a way that advances the brand while tweaking the watch range in tune to the market.

I too, like others, used to admire PP much more. Having a PP on my wrist felt special, so I collected 4. Then one day, I came out of the PP cloud and realized that PM complications, like other brands' complications, are regarded as ugly ducklings in today's market. I sold all but the 5711, but of course! It's really sad that all PP watches used to hold up their value on the secondary market because they were Pateks. But that is no longer the case and speaks for the current state of the brand.

So, it will be interesting to see what Thiery and PP does going forward.

A genuinely refreshing view.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by britxt0

We just lost a brother...

Thanks my friend, yet am not totally lost just quite yet as PP has a chance if they so choose to EARN my admiration. Let's see if they can outdo FPJ and others.

PP has lost me until they do something that actually matters within the world of horology for a sub-$60k piece(s), plus it is long overdue to up the warranty to five years (or eight as others are doing). Hopefully their new production building was part of bringing PP back to being an innovative manufacturer as they were decades ago with truly inspiring timepieces for under $60k, and not just a place to throw back-patting parties, providing a lavish visit / gifts to members of the press, and entertaining 'important' guests.

For now, Patek Philippe is lagging far behind many others, and yes it is their own undoing to blame imho :(

Here's a pic from part of my collection circa 2013. Only the 3820rg remains (plus the B&R i used during my SCCA Formula 2000 racing days and the vintage OMEGA i lent to my brother who passed away). Again this is 2013, before the frenzy.... with his and hers matching mechanical Nauts and the other typical goodies back in the day (is a mere 17 years ago reeeally that long ago?).

Untitled-1.jpg

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by IBDOC

Ending one reference (5711) isn’t the same thing as ending the Nautilus.

Please read the last line in the very post you quoted me :-)

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Thanks my friend, yet am not totally lost just quite yet as PP has a chance if they so choose to EARN my admiration. Let's see if they can outdo FPJ and others.

PP has lost me until they do something that actually matters within the world of horology for a sub-$60k piece(s), plus it is long overdue to up the warranty to five years (or eight as others are doing). Hopefully their new production building was part of bringing PP back to being an innovative manufacturer as they were decades ago with truly inspiring timepieces for under $60k, and not just a place to throw back-patting parties, providing a lavish visit / gifts to members of the press, and entertaining 'important' guests.

For now, Patek Philippe is lagging far behind many others, and yes it is their own undoing to blame imho :(

Here's a pic from part of my collection circa 2013. Only the 3820rg remains (plus the B&R i used during my SCCA Formula 2000 racing days and the vintage OMEGA i lent to my brother who passed away). Again this is 2013, before the frenzy.... with his and hers matching mechanical Nauts and the other typical goodies back in the day (is a mere 17 years ago reeeally that long ago?).

Attachment 1206013

Love your watch box. Do you really mean 2013 + 17 years?

[IBDOC]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

Please read the last line in the very post you quoted me :-)

That last line in your post about ending the Nautilus wasn’t an actual direct quote from the NZZ interview, so what weight does it hold? The only thing he actually did say right out was that 5711 is apparently NOT completely done yet, and that it will have a replacement somewhere down the line. Sounds to me that we will see more Nautilus releases ahead rather than the opposite.

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by IBDOC

That last line in your post about ending the Nautilus wasn’t an actual direct quote from the NZZ interview, so what weight does it hold? The only thing he actually did say right out was that 5711 is apparently NOT completely done yet, and that it will have a replacement somewhere down the line. Sounds to me that we will see more Nautilus releases ahead rather than the opposite.

I deduce the following based off of Mr. Stern’s own words ...

1) There will be a unique, farewell 5711 later in 2021.
2) There will be a replacement to the 5711 at some point in the future (timing TBD). “... quite major ... It will be something else, very close, and logical.“ - T.S.
3) If I had to guess, the replacement to the 5711 re:#2, will not be in stainless steel.

***

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/10/f...rry-stern.html

“Mr. Stern has said little about the Nautilus cancellation, but he talked last week with The New York Times. The interview has been edited and condensed.

Why did you decide to end the Ref. 5711?

A watch should not be a top leader on its own. That is too dangerous.

I always have two goals in mind. To protect Patek Philippe as an industry leader and to push for the finest product, so we constantly create new models, and we are innovative with our movements. The second thing is, I have to protect my client. For that, a Patek Philippe watch must keep its value.

What will become of all the people on the decade-long waiting lists?

We know, and our retailers know, that we will never be able to supply enough watches for all the people on the lists, because we don’t have them. It is as simple as that. That is why we never allow retailers to take a deposit.

Some retailers only get two Nautiluses a year, but they have 100 names on their waiting list. It is their own responsibility to explain it to the customer, but it’s not easy when you have someone who insists on getting on the list. You cannot only blame Patek Philippe for not delivering enough watches.

When did you decide to stop the Nautilus?

In 2019, at Baselworld, I said that I thought there were too many Nautiluses out there. Closing out the Ref. 5711 was on my mind then. And when I took the decision in 2019, we knew already what would come next.

Mr. Stern said he knew that his decision to discontinue the Ref. 5711 was unpopular. “I know I did not make a lot of friends in the past few weeks,” he said. “All I can say is, I am sorry. But I hope in five or 10 years they will understand and forgive me.”

Why did everyone learn about it from the run-out list?

We don’t retire our watches by public announcement. The Nautilus does not deserve a better treatment than another reference.

So what will happen now that the Nautilus is discontinued?

Stopping the Nautilus was an important decision, but we have a plan. The replacement to the Ref. 5711 will be quite major. It will be better than the Ref. 5711.

But I will not say today in what metal or if it will be in steel. It will be something else, very close, and logical.

It is like Christmas. You don’t want to know your gift before it’s Christmas, do you?

Which stores will be the first to receive that replacement?

It will be our own salons located in Geneva, Paris and London. It is not the perfect solution, and it will be a nightmare for them. That is my suggestion right now, but we will listen to our store managers.

Do you think that people will be disappointed, and some may not forgive you for ending the Nautilus?

Yes, people will be disappointed. I know I did not make a lot of friends in the past few weeks. All I can say is, I am sorry. But I hope in five or 10 years they will understand and forgive me.

We are doing this for our clients who already own a Patek Philippe and to protect our brand from becoming too commercial. I can continue to make this fantastic product, or sell 10 times more of them. But I am not working for numbers. I am protecting the company for the future, for my children.

This is an opportunity to teach a lesson to my kids, who are the first ones to say, “Dad, are you crazy?” They have to learn, just as my father taught me: When you have a fantastic brand like Patek, you have to protect the brand and not just one product.”

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Love your watch box. Do you really mean 2013 + 17 years?

LOL.... yeah, a bad typo.... been a tough and VERY busy week so my brain is fried right now. Vacay starts in a few hours and yes it is 4am and i've not slept in.... a while.

Looks like i picked the wrong week to....

[italiafan]

I have a 5205g which I adore and think it is far more beautiful than my 5726. However, I live in a very warm climate and doing the simplest of things outdoors for ~6-7 months of the year results in a lot of perspiration (I mean just driving a convertible, or walking across a parking lot to a restaurant). And so my 5726 gets a lot more wrist time.
I wish PP would make more of their beautiful “classic” watches with beautiful metal bracelets. I’d love a Calatrava with a metal bracelet, but so many of their non-nautilus bracelets are just ugly.

[CastorKrieg]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Oh, PP is keeping the model, but it seems all the PR about stopping producing just one single version is causing lots of press. PP needs press, all they can get.

As we all know, PP desperately needs to release new movements, new tech, etc, which has been sorely lacking within the company's normal mass-produced pieces they sell to customers. Other brands have been far surpassing PP for many years (FPJ, ALS, Bvlgari, etc), so PP is playing catchup at this point.

PP is a 'market maker' to use financial speak. It decides where the market moves, and other brands will move along. Will it be the case in 50 years? I don't know, but it is the case now.

Cutting 5711 accomplishes a few things at the same time:
1. It assures value retention, and Thierry knows a lot of people look at Patek as a 'safe' investment or at least the one that will not lose them much money.
2. It prevents any one line or model from becoming predominant, esp. since historically Patek DNA is in complicated watches made from precious metals and TS wants it to remain this way
3. It generates a lot of press, which is always a good thing as it exposes more people to the brand
4. As others have pointed out it allows them to introduce a new base reference at a much higher price point in a year or two