Will Panerai pull itself from the deep abyss?

[Ravager135]

Originally Posted by themaninblack

I don't know if Panerai sales are down. I have two Radiomir watches and like them greatly but I'm not in the market for any more. Those Panerai boutiques give me the creeps. The boutique on Nathan Road and in IFC always look empty but I was in Singapore recently and that one seemed busy enough. Truth is Panerai carries a bit of a stigma and they make too many models. It's almost like it's the watch that guys you don't like or who know nothing about watches often wear. Now that may be total bull and a ridiculous generalisation but it does kind of seem that way.

While I agree that Panerai tends to be the brand of choice for guys who want a big watch, don't know a whole lot about horology, and have a little bit of money, there are just as many if not more people buying a Rolex because it is all they know.

I think most watch brands have stereotypes.

[themaninblack]

Originally Posted by Ravager135

While I agree that Panerai tends to be the brand of choice for guys who want a big watch, don't know a whole lot about horology, and have a little bit of money, there are just as many if not more people buying a Rolex because it is all they know.

I think most watch brands have stereotypes.

Sure. Daytona's could almost be in the same category but I better be careful what I say!!!

[Ravager135]

Originally Posted by themaninblack

Sure. Daytona's could almost be in the same category but I better be careful what I say!!!

[psv]

Brand devotees are always weary and reluctant to hear any complaints or negatives about the item you own.

I don't have any hard figures, but anecdotally I've talked to sales managers at several stores in DC, NYC and SF, and ALL of them are saying the same thing - Panerai sales are soft, at best. I've been in Panerai boutiques from NYC to Madrid the last year, I was always the only person in there. And you only have to look at the market value of perhaps their "best" watch, the 372, which keeps falling.

It doesn't make it a bad watch, it doesn't make owners right or wrong, most of us enthusiast wear watches because we like them for one reason or the other, not because of sales figures. Personally I have a great deal of respect for the house and love several of their references, but at the same time I don't see the point of trying position Panerai a hot and fast growing brand at the moment. Things might change.

[MP5]

It would change tomorrow with the cutting of 3/4 of the regular production crap and a focus on the historics with value pricing and forgetting nearly all of the erector set movements they make. They could cap it off with a rerelease of the etched prev dials in limited quantites per year.

[soundserious]

It's shocking to see how much inventory is for sale on forums and fleabay. Why would anybody overpay at a boutique?

[martinr]

Too expensive: maybe
Too big: maybe
Poor resale: maybe
Not much Panerai DNA: maybe
Do I enjoy owning it and wearing it: yes I do and isn't that what really matters?

[Ravager135]

Originally Posted by MP5

It would change tomorrow with the cutting of 3/4 of the regular production crap and a focus on the historics with value pricing and forgetting nearly all of the erector set movements they make. They could cap it off with a rerelease of the etched prev dials in limited quantites per year.

Both accurate and succinct. Well said.

[redsubby]

Originally Posted by improviz

@Fleetlord, I'll address your posts one by one.

The first one is a fine example of hair-splitting to justify obvious "do as I say, not as I do" behavior on your part. You constantly tell people "NEVER" choose either of these brands over Rolex, and yet you own both of these brands. I would simply point out that there are Rolexes in the same price range as both of the models you pictured, and yet you very obviously chose to purchase the Pam and IWC "over" these Rolexes, whether you wish to admit it or not, simply by virtue of the fact that you purchased these models in lieu of equivalently-priced Rolexes. "NEVER" doesn't mean "unless you like it better", it means NEVER, full stop.

Maybe there is no Rolex that he wanted at the price range of his IWC or his 000? or maybe he already has all the Rolex he wanted at this price range, that's why he went ahead and bought the 000 and IWC?

If there's a Rolex and a PAM that I am considering and they are in the same price range, take a wild guess which one I'd pick?

[improviz]

Originally Posted by redsubby

Maybe there is no Rolex that he wanted at the price range of his IWC or his 000? or maybe he already has all the Rolex he wanted at this price range, that's why he went ahead and bought the 000 and IWC?

This proves my point: if there are valid reasons for selecting one brand over the other, then perhaps the word NEVER in all caps repeated ad nauseum isn't the advice he should be dispensing to others. For example, people who have asked if they should trade their Rolex on a Panerai/IWC have been told "NEVER" to do so, even though your scenario would hold true here (they obviously like the Panerai/IWC better and are tired of the Rolex or would not be considering such a trade).

Point is, as I said: "NEVER" means never, full stop, and that is a patently ridiculous thing to say: there are always valid reasons to select one over the other. If instead it was "I wouldn't do it because x, y, z..." it would come across as more reasonable and thoughtful than a blanket "NEVER", which just sounds pompous and silly and denigrates the other brands.

Originally Posted by redsubby

If there's a Rolex and a PAM that I am considering and they are in the same price range, take a wild guess which one I'd pick?

Well, then I would say that you made the right choice for you, but others might choose differently. But always telling people they should NEVER pick one over the other is pompous and presumptuous in my view, as opposed to politely issuing an opinion and giving a few actual reasons for it.

[nick c]

It's like the other brand like Cartier or Roger dubuis people will say it's crap but I like it that's all that matter

[Cru Jones]

^ lookin' good, nick! what a set!

truth be told, for me, the PAMs and cartiers are the stand-outs.

[nick c]

Thank you my friend I agree with you life is short need to enjoy every moment we have

[Psmith]

^^^ great collection Nick

[nick c]

Thank you Clive

[red1108nyc]

Originally Posted by nick c

It's like the other brand like Cartier or Roger dubuis people will say it's crap but I like it that's all that matter

Great collection Nick! Enjoy them!!

Best,

Fred

[nick c]

Thanks Fred

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by improviz

This proves my point: if there are valid reasons for selecting one brand over the other, then perhaps the word NEVER in all caps repeated ad nauseum isn't the advice he should be dispensing to others. For example, people who have asked if they should trade their Rolex on a Panerai/IWC have been told "NEVER" to do so, even though your scenario would hold true here (they obviously like the Panerai/IWC better and are tired of the Rolex or would not be considering such a trade).

Point is, as I said: "NEVER" means never, full stop, and that is a patently ridiculous thing to say: there are always valid reasons to select one over the other. If instead it was "I wouldn't do it because x, y, z..." it would come across as more reasonable and thoughtful than a blanket "NEVER", which just sounds pompous and silly and denigrates the other brands.



Well, then I would say that you made the right choice for you, but others might choose differently. But always telling people they should NEVER pick one over the other is pompous and presumptuous in my view, as opposed to politely issuing an opinion and giving a few actual reasons for it.

Hello again.....

While I own Panerai, Iwc, Breitling, Omegas and others....I would NEVER trade one of my Rolexes for any of those. N E V E R....

Take the IWC for example.....There are posts such as....Should I trade my Rolex Sub for an IWC 3777?

Answer: Never trade out of ROLEX into a lesser brand.

I have an IWC3777. Would I trade a Rolex for it? Absolutely not.

It's a bimbo of a watch. Very pretty to look at, but honestly, it's not all that special. I got a deal on one and I bought it....at no "cost" to Rolex. I didn't choose it over a Rolex, I didn't sell or trade a Rolex for it...I simply added it to the collection..

I'm not saying a person shouldn't explore other brands...BUT if you are in the unfortunate position to have to choose between Rolex and xyz, or sell / trade a Rolex to acquire xyx, then the choice should ALWAYS be ROLEX*

* Except for Patek and AP. Then there are other rules that apply...

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Hello again.....



While I own Panerai, Iwc, Breitling, Omegas and others....I would NEVER trade one of my Rolexes for any of those. N E V E R....



Take the IWC for example.....There are posts such as....Should I trade my Rolex Sub for an IWC 3777?



Answer: Never trade out of ROLEX into a lesser brand.



I have an IWC3777. Would I trade a Rolex for it? Absolutely not.



It's a bimbo of a watch. Very pretty to look at, but honestly, it's not all that special. I got a deal on one and I bought it....at no "cost" to Rolex. I didn't choose it over a Rolex, I didn't sell or trade a Rolex for it...I simply added it to the collection..



I'm not saying a person shouldn't explore other brands...BUT if you are in the unfortunate position to have to choose between Rolex and xyz, or sell / trade a Rolex to acquire xyx, then the choice should ALWAYS be ROLEX*



* Except for Patek and AP. Then there are other rules that apply...

;-)

[Psmith]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

;-)

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

;-)

[nick c]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Hello again.....

While I own Panerai, Iwc, Breitling, Omegas and others....I would NEVER trade one of my Rolexes for any of those. N E V E R....

Take the IWC for example.....There are posts such as....Should I trade my Rolex Sub for an IWC 3777?

Answer: Never trade out of ROLEX into a lesser brand.

I have an IWC3777. Would I trade a Rolex for it? Absolutely not.

It's a bimbo of a watch. Very pretty to look at, but honestly, it's not all that special. I got a deal on one and I bought it....at no "cost" to Rolex. I didn't choose it over a Rolex, I didn't sell or trade a Rolex for it...I simply added it to the collection..

I'm not saying a person shouldn't explore other brands...BUT if you are in the unfortunate position to have to choose between Rolex and xyz, or sell / trade a Rolex to acquire xyx, then the choice should ALWAYS be ROLEX*

* Except for Patek and AP. Then there are other rules that apply...

You should start selling your Pam 000 because in 5 years its going to be worthless as you said

[nilfire77]

This...

[Psmith]

Originally Posted by nilfire77

This...

Well that has really brought something worthwhile to the discussion.


I guess we found a hater...

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Psmith

Well that has really brought something worthwhile to the discussion.


I guess we found a hater...

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Ravager135

While I agree that Panerai tends to be the brand of choice for guys who want a big watch, don't know a whole lot about horology, and have a little bit of money, there are just as many if not more people buying a Rolex because it is all they know.

I think most watch brands have stereotypes.

agree with this and would offer we should remember Panerai is the original big watch.
They sell watches that are the same sizes as they originally produced from their beginning.

it is as if they created the market but had to wait 50 years for it to catch on… like a great painting, if you will


however Panerai's business decisions are another story, i do not believe they have served the customer well with their endless supply of special editions and price gouging on the same imo.

thats where the 000 & 111 come in, fairly priced and consistent favorites. like a submariner:)

[nilfire77]

Originally Posted by Psmith

Well that has really brought something worthwhile to the discussion.


I guess we found a hater...

I'm not a hater... Just find this meme humorous......

[SMD]

Originally Posted by nilfire77

I'm not a hater... Just find this meme humorous......

Couldn't the same meme be used for the submariner over time?

[improviz]

Originally Posted by HL65

I'm thinking a B minus for sophistry here for Mr. Fleetlord, my six year old can spin better than this.

[Psmith]

Originally Posted by SMD

Couldn't the same meme be used for the submariner over time?

I was thinking the same thing