The Hulk and it’s “Rarity” 116610LV

[HamBam92]

Hey everyone,
I have just registered and become a member
today.
I am really interested to know if anyone can shed any light on how many Hulks were produced?

I know it was produced from 2010 to 2020, but I can’t seem to find any info on production numbers. Is this something Rolex ever let’s on about or is it kept hush hush?

all the best everyone,
Ham

[harvey]

…no one knows but Rolex.

[tifosi]

Welcome to the forum. Rolex does not publish any information about production numbers.

I can tell you that it for sure is not "rare". Just a hype watch, therefore prices are artificially inflated.

[future]

About four times as may as 126610LV with the first same bezel

[Blanch]

Rolex is owned by the Hans Wisdorf Foundation, and under the private protection aspects of a "Foundation," the HWF and Rolex are under no obligation to disclose financials, production numbers, donations, or any other business particulars; Nor do they pay any corporate taxes.

[taylor2000]

Chrono 24 has 530+ 116610lv for sale and 510+ 126610lv for sale. Since the 11 was produced for 9 years and the 12 has been out for 2 years. That gives you an idea of how rare they are relative to each other.

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[Nav01L]

Very many would be a fair guess. As in probably tens of thousands.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by Blanch

Rolex is owned by the Hans Wisdorf Foundation, and under the private protection aspects of a "Foundation," HWF and Rolex are under no obligation to disclose financials, production numbers, donations, or any other business particulars; Nor do they pay any corporate taxes.

That’s not entirely true. Rolex is a company as any other privately held company and pays taxes just like any other such company. Its shareholder is an altruistic foundation and may be tax exempt (though even that is not a given due to the economic dependency it likely has with regard to the company) but the company itself would not be. That’s not how taxes work, not even here in Switzerland.

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by taylor2000

Chrono 24 has 530+ 116610lv for sale and 510+ 126610lv for sale. Since the 11 was produced for 9 years and the 12 has been out for 2 years. That gives you an idea of how rare they are relative to each other.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

I don’t think you can necessarily get extrapolate anything from that data. Way to many other potential factors involved.

[taylor2000]

Originally Posted by bluestreak

I don’t think you can necessarily get extrapolate anything from that data. Way to many other potential factors involved.

It says something. Maybe that they produced more 12s per year or that the 12s are easier to get a hold of them the 11s. ADs are now, and will continue to, sell as yet unproduced 12s. They aren't making any more 11s.

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[HamBam92]

Thank you so much for all your replies, i really appreciate it. I am very new to this world
and this is so much more accurate and closer to my questions than just typing into google.

I fully understand the HULK was way over hyped, values here in the UK sit at around £17000 for a good watch with Box and Papers, are we going to see values continue to drop or IS this a good investment piece? (my back ground is cars and people ask me all the time what will go up and down, and of course none of us know but i have a good idea what cars are safer investments than others) is the Hulk a safe one?

thank you all again!

[tifosi]

I think it was a good "investment" when it was available at MSRP or discounted like they used to be. They made too many of them for them to be truly rare and desirable IMHO. It'll never be a double red seadweller or a a Comex sub fetching $100k plus.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by taylor2000

It says something. Maybe that they produced more 12s per year or that the 12s are easier to get a hold of them the 11s. ADs are now, and will continue to, sell as yet unproduced 12s. They aren't making any more 11s.

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Yes but you may be omitting that many 11s may have found a final home on someone’s wrist, while many 12s were born into the unfortunate age of flipping. People used to buy these things because they actually wanted them for many of the years the 11 was sold in, and the ones foolish enough to buy an 11 at a lot over list won’t be selling either now that values are coming back down.

If you want to come to an estimate, the safer methodology in my view would be to assume that Rolex made an average of 1mio watches a year over the period the 11 was in production. Conservatively, a bit less than half of that might be in steel. About two thirds of those steel watches might be professional models, so approx. 300 - 350k. There are roughly 7 lines of professional models (with the AK kind of taking over from the Milgauss). Given that the Sub is one of the bigger lines, it probably has a higher proportion of the total, but even if we divide arithmetically we’re looking at 40-50k annual Submariners. From what I heard at ADs the proportion of green ones was about 20% of the total. So you can derive an annual number of at least 8-10k, x the 9 years. And that would be a low estimate. It’s probably more. We have no way of knowing.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by HamBam92

Thank you so much for all your replies, i really appreciate it. I am very new to this world
and this is so much more accurate and closer to my questions than just typing into google.

I fully understand the HULK was way over hyped, values here in the UK sit at around £17000 for a good watch with Box and Papers, are we going to see values continue to drop or IS this a good investment piece? (my back ground is cars and people ask me all the time what will go up and down, and of course none of us know but i have a good idea what cars are safer investments than others) is the Hulk a safe one?

thank you all again!

No, it’s not. It’s not significant from a collector’s perspective. It had a moment as a status symbol, but whether that has staying power over the long run when new status symbols come along all the time is very dubious. Bragging rights tend to fade away. The GV Milgauss for instance, that’s something that might eventually have value for collectors. It’s a very special watch that won’t come back too soon. The Hulk on the other hand was just a colorway for a run off the mill Sub that’s always going to be there in some shape or form, and in the least pretty case the Sub has ever had on top of that… since you’re into cars, ask yourself whether a modern day G63 would be a good investment if you bought at the inflated prices these things currently have… aside from the fact that you should treat neither watches nor cars in that way in the first place. They are and remain toys for boys. They have no inherent economic performance that would justify their value. It’s all irrational demand that can change or disappear without notice. So in terms of investing within the actual meaning of the term, based on properly diligenced assumptions and reasonable indicators, these items are entirely unsuitable. If you do it for the money, it’s not much more than a big Ponzi scheme. So buy what you like, put it on your wrist and have an attractive way of telling how late you are for your actual real world job.

[doboy007]

Since no ones, I'll throw out a number. 500k ;)

[bp1000]

Do you have a 116610LV?

[Swiftneck]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

Yes but you may be omitting that many 11s may have found a final home on someone’s wrist, while many 12s were born into the unfortunate age of flipping. People used to buy these things because they actually wanted them for many of the years the 11 was sold in, and the ones foolish enough to buy an 11 at a lot over list won’t be selling either now that values are coming back down.



If you want to come to an estimate, the safer methodology in my view would be to assume that Rolex made an average of 1mio watches a year over the period the 11 was in production. Conservatively, a bit less than half of that might be in steel. About two thirds of those steel watches might be professional models, so approx. 300 - 350k. There are roughly 7 lines of professional models (with the AK kind of taking over from the Milgauss). Given that the Sub is one of the bigger lines, it probably has a higher proportion of the total, but even if we divide arithmetically we’re looking at 40-50k annual Submariners. From what I heard at ADs the proportion of green ones was about 20% of the total. So you can derive an annual number of at least 8-10k, x the 9 years. And that would be a low estimate. It’s probably more. We have no way of knowing.

Archie luxury made a calculation once based on the space each model line had in the Rolex catalogue. I remember it as being a fair assumption and numbers. of course, without it being precise knowledge.

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[Harry-57]

Short answer: No data outside Rolex and Rolex do not disclose.

Long answer: It was a mass produced watch and it was on sale for around 10 years. It's not rare. Just look at how many are currently for sale.

[Swiftneck]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

Short answer: No data outside Rolex and Rolex do not disclose.



Long answer: It was a mass produced watch and it was on sale for around 10 years. It's not rare. Just look at how many are currently for sale.

At the speed, watch brands pump out new green watches, we will all hate green watches a few years down the line. The trends always change, and I think we will see some more discreet watches in the near future. Maybe it has already started if one look at the new daytona line.

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[Blanch]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

That’s not entirely true. Rolex is a company as any other privately held company and pays taxes just like any other such company. Its shareholder is an altruistic foundation and may be tax exempt (though even that is not a given due to the economic dependency it likely has with regard to the company) but the company itself would not be. That’s not how taxes work, not even here in Switzerland.

100% accurate
But I'll explain the taxes.
HWF and Rolex pay taxes (just as we all do). But HWF and Rolex are not subject to "corporate tax," which is an entirely different kind of tax..

[future]

Originally Posted by taylor2000

Chrono 24 has 530+ 116610lv for sale and 510+ 126610lv for sale. Since the 11 was produced for 9 years and the 12 has been out for 2 years. That gives you an idea of how rare they are relative to each other.

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455 11lv vs 398 12lv b+p in stock, but really in stock is anyone’s guess.

Your conclusion that hulks are 4 times as few per year is a complete non starter tbh really defies common sense.

No reason at all to believe 11 and 12 lv production per year varies and every reason to believe it doesn’t.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by Blanch

100% accurate
But I'll explain the taxes.
HWF and Rolex pay taxes (just as we all do). But HWF and Rolex are not subject to "corporate tax," which is an entirely different kind of tax..

If only you knew what I do for a living. Maybe you may want to have a look at what my location says and have a guess how well I may know our domestic tax laws…

[Blanch]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

If only you knew what I do for a living. Maybe you may want to have a look at what my location says and have a guess how well I may know our domestic tax laws…

My wording may not be precise on describing corporate taxes and domestic tax laws, but I said you were 100% accurate.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by Blanch

My wording may not be precise on describing corporate taxes and domestic tax laws, but I said you were 100% accurate.

My point is, we call it corporate income tax here and they pay it just like every other for profit business. On top of that they are subject to capital tax. Whether the foundation pays taxes too on the dividends they get I don’t know, but the case for exemption is certainly not as clear cut in their case as it would be for more common altruistic foundations. Bottom line, Rolex is likely one of the biggest tax payers in the canton of Geneva.

[MoosicPa]

When I bought my Hulk ( round 2012/13) it was sitting in my AD's case. I actually got a 10% discount at that time. Wow things have changed!

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by Swiftneck

At the speed, watch brands pump out new green watches, we will all hate green watches a few years down the line. The trends always change, and I think we will see some more discreet watches in the near future. Maybe it has already started if one look at the new daytona line.

I like green but my 116610LV is all the green I want in my watch collection. Nothing else appeals like the Hulk for some reason.



On the other hand, for reasons which are equally hard to rationalise, I can't get enough blue dials. Each to our own I guess.

[Swiftneck]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

I like green but my 116610LV is all the green I want in my watch collection. Nothing else appeals like the Hulk for some reason.







On the other hand, for reasons which are equally hard to rationalise, I can't get enough blue dials. Each to our own I guess.

I love my 16610 as well. But i liked it better before everything turned green

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[Swiftneck]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

Long answer: It was a mass produced watch and it was on sale for around 10 years. It's not rare. Just look at how many are currently for sale.

No, they are not rare, but I just crossed my mind that I have never met a person who wore the same watch as I did. And only once have I seen one wear a watch that's I own, outside of a watch shop. Which was a 2005 Tag Heuer Aquaracer CAF2110, my first automatic watch it was on the wrist of a business associate in 2020

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[Harry-57]

I've only seen two black ceramic Sub Dates in the wild and I only know that one of them was genuine for certain. But the world is a big place that can easily swallow around 0.8-1M Rolex a year, most without a trace.

[HL65]

Nobody knows except Rolex but it is hardly a rare watch.