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Old 4 April 2020, 11:39 PM   #5101
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In Texas,, Gov. Abbot has not directed a state wide closure, leaving it to counties to decide. I believe he is correct to do so. Texas is the second most populous state, with the 12th most cases (was 11th, but Georgia passed us and Connecticut is challenging) and 15th most deaths. There are 100 counties with no cases.

The social distancing strategy has an element of magical thinking to it. We all know the idea is to flatten the curve, but at the cost of extending it, because the area under the curve doesn’t change unless a vaccine is developed. For us, “hope” is a strategy.

Plans must be made for that hope to not come to fruition. There is a human cost to this shutdown. I have a co-worker with a young son at the top of the kidney transplant list (his failed due to type 1 diabetes). Transplants are curtailed until this passes. Donor organs have a short shelf life, and there is no telling how many have been discarded the past few weeks. When does this young man’s life start to count?
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Old 4 April 2020, 11:39 PM   #5102
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Maybe. But to say with certainly is simply wishful thinking.

No matter how you slice this, things will be very different going forward.

You guys can all name the various things we’ve gotten through before. But those same people have mentioned in this thread that this is unprecedented.

Yes, I too am confident that we will eventually overcome. Things will normalize and our species will continue. But the new normal will be very different.

How that is defined remains to be seen.

Im not being negative. I’m being pragmatic.

We currently have no end in sight. That’s a fact. So we can’t state that things will get back to normal. Until an actual end is defined, it is just impossible to say what will be.

Edit to add I agree we need to stay the course. I’m not disputing that. But in this ever evolving situation we also need to be dynamic and open minded. A new way will emerge and we need to be ready to make the best future we can.
I agree that life may be different after this pandemic. But it’s not a guarantee that the changes will be negative. The Great Plague of the 14th century brought down the feudal system in Europe. The French Revolution resulted in more individual freedoms, women’s rights and political justice.

No one who knows me would call me Suzy Sunshine, but I think there is a possibility that this pandemic could result in positive changes in societies in addition to the obvious negatives we see now.
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Old 4 April 2020, 11:40 PM   #5103
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I agree with everything you say, as per usual.

And I appreciate your attitude and perspective, as per usual.

This would be a better discussion over a meal.
Me as well Seth.

I have a customer in your neck of the woods (Trenton) so whenever I get out that way, would love to buy you a steak and swap some stories
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Old 4 April 2020, 11:41 PM   #5104
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Does anyone wake up in the morning and struggle to believe this is all happening?

My mental health is starting to suffer pretty badly, I just canít take all this in at times. Itís so surreal.


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Same here. Every morning feels weird.

Especially since you canít actually see, touch and feel the crises expect through the media. Itís surreal.

One thing thatís bothering me big time is the lack of focus on kids during this crisis. Iíve tried to organise some attention and help but still feel itís a drop in the ocean. Everyone is focusing on economy or the elders.

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Old 4 April 2020, 11:47 PM   #5105
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... I have a co-worker with a young son at the top of the kidney transplant list (his failed due to type 1 diabetes). Transplants are curtailed until this passes. Donor organs have a short shelf life, and there is no telling how many have been discarded the past few weeks. When does this young manís life start to count?
I agree with this part of your post, and Iím very saddened to hear this. Every life matters and I hope somehow he and others will continue to receive lifesaving surgeries. Here, only elective surgeries have been postponed but lifesaving ones such as this continue as far as I know ...

I donít understand US Politics and how/why each state is left up to its own to decide how to handle this pandemic as it knows no borders. We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

Hope you and yours stay safe.
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Old 4 April 2020, 11:48 PM   #5106
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The 6 month staycation on mortgages is a creative idea and Iíve heard as of yesterday that over 500,000 applications have been received. Iím curious what sort of proof if any, the applicants must show to qualify.



FWIW most of our bank branches are closed here in Waterloo Ontario.



Stay safe
As someone said, you can do it online, call the customer service(it's a long wait) or call his advisor, tbh, I asked why they want to skip their payments, usually it's due to a job loss and I quickly check their mortgage to see if they have any late payments. that's pretty much it. The thing that many do not know, the interest doesn't stop and you still have to pay the insurance and taxes on your mortgage.

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Old 4 April 2020, 11:49 PM   #5107
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I just said that to my wife. Exact same words.
For sure! Even tho I am working today, I'm grateful to be here. Take care

(Sorry for double post)

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Old 5 April 2020, 12:05 AM   #5108
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As someone said, you can do it online, call the customer service(it's a long wait) or call his advisor, tbh, I asked why they want to skip their payments, usually it's due to a job loss and I quickly check their mortgage to see if they have any late payments. that's pretty much it. The thing that many do not know, the interest doesn't stop and you still have to pay the insurance and taxes on your mortgage.

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Sounds like a simple process and a creative approach to helping clients during this tough time.
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Old 5 April 2020, 12:23 AM   #5109
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I agree with this part of your post, and Iím very saddened to hear this. Every life matters and I hope somehow he and others will continue to receive lifesaving surgeries. Here, only elective surgeries have been postponed but lifesaving ones such as this continue as far as I know ...

I donít understand US Politics and how/why each state is left up to its own to decide how to handle this pandemic as it knows no borders. We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

Hope you and yours stay safe.
Thanks. I think itís good to leave it to the states. Every stateís situation is different, and Texas has different situations all over. Dallas, for example, is pretty well shut down. Van Horn doesnít need to be.

I was thinking about my friendís son more. As I understand it, after a transplant you get immunity suppressing drugs, to help your body accept it. Perhaps we just canít do that kind of treatment with COVID-19 all around. Or perhaps we need to develop a plan to get stronger transplant patients infected and immune first.
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Old 5 April 2020, 12:35 AM   #5110
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This kind of proves my point - itís never their fault, everyone else has a duty to give them anything they want and to make them happy.



If they screw up, then blame the older generation



Victim culture
It seems that it's not only an Italian thing, then. 100% agree.

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Old 5 April 2020, 12:47 AM   #5111
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A few nice things I things I saw here in Chicago.

-- CVS giving out free masks to police officers and first reaponders.

-- Cop using his own money to give coffee/water/donut to a homeless man. The cop said that with the distancing guidelines, homeless are getting less help thrown their way. I tried to give him some cash so he could continue to do so throughout the rest of his patrol -- he said he really appreciates the gesture but (understandably) cannot take cash from the public. Seemed like a kind guy.
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Old 5 April 2020, 12:55 AM   #5112
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Thanks. I think it’s good to leave it to the states. Every state’s situation is different, and Texas has different situations all over. Dallas, for example, is pretty well shut down. Van Horn doesn’t need to be.

I was thinking about my friend’s son more. As I understand it, after a transplant you get immunity suppressing drugs, to help your body accept it. Perhaps we just can’t do that kind of treatment with COVID-19 all around. Or perhaps we need to develop a plan to get stronger transplant patients infected and immune first.
There is more to the story than meets the eye as to why states at the moment are in charge of the action taken towards the pandemic. It is very unfortunate because it is very simple to take a collaborative approach between states add transparency and make whole. Politics shouldn’t take a role, but there is a black book for a reason and I believe there is a lot of reasons for why the actions that have been taken have been taken. A Nationwide approach should of been taken a long time ago. As I said this war was lost a long time ago now we must let it run its course with what little misinformation is passed along to us. I know they are educating them selves as they go do to it being a new strain of corona virus but the whole approach thus far has been wrong and wether you believe it or not its hard to believe it wasn’t lax and or intentional. There are a lot of reasons that come to mine why such lack of restraints.
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Old 5 April 2020, 01:04 AM   #5113
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There is more to the story than meets the eye as to why states at the moment are in charge of the action taken towards the pandemic. It is very unfortunate because it is very simple to take a collaborative approach between states add transparency and make whole. Politics shouldn’t take a role, but there is a black book for a reason and I believe there is a lot of reasons for why the actions that have been taken have been taken. A Nationwide approach should of been taken a long time ago. As I said this war was lost a long time ago now we must let it run its course with what little misinformation is passed along to us. I know they are educating them selves as they go do to it being a new strain of corona virus but the whole approach thus far has been wrong and weather you believe it or not its hard to believe it wasn’t laced and or intentional. There are a lot of reasons that come to mine why such lack of restraints.

This event happened just 6 weeks before the
initial outbreak in Wuhan !
Coincidence? Anyone’s guess at this point I presume...
Just sharing some info I learned of recently.

http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/about
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Old 5 April 2020, 01:12 AM   #5114
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This kind of proves my point - itís never their fault, everyone else has a duty to give them anything they want and to make them happy.

If they screw up, then blame the older generation

Victim culture

Why are we pointing fingers at certain generations? This problem isnít a generational thing. Iíve seen as many young as older people acting irresponsibly during this pandemic. I donít think itís an age thing but a mentality thing.


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Old 5 April 2020, 01:21 AM   #5115
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Why are we pointing fingers at certain generations? This problem isn’t a generational thing. I’ve seen as many young as older people acting irresponsibly during this pandemic. I don’t think it’s an age thing but a mentality thing.


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Agree to a point. But the spring break pictures are what make people think that the younger generation at the problem.

The crowds were mainly kids. But I take your point, the older generation was in charge of the beaches.

And a ton of older people got on cruises when it was not smart or considerate of others. Many had to be rescued at tax payer expense. And many are still stuck on the boats.

Stay safe.
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Old 5 April 2020, 01:26 AM   #5116
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Originally Posted by superstarmar View Post
This event happened just 6 weeks before the
initial outbreak in Wuhan !
Coincidence? Anyoneís guess at this point I presume...
Just sharing some info I learned of recently.

http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/about
I too am starting this think there is a lot more than meets the eye.

Iím hoping at a minimum our ďleadersĒ are entertaining these ideas as well.
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Old 5 April 2020, 01:29 AM   #5117
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Agree to a point. But the spring break pictures are what make people think that the younger generation at the problem.

The crowds were mainly kids. But I take your point, the older generation was in charge of the beaches.

And a ton of older people got on cruises when it was not smart or considerate of others. Many had to be rescued at tax payer expense. And many are still stuck on the boats.

Stay safe.
So many older folks out and about being stupid.

My father went out to McDonaldís to get breakfast. My aunt went to play cards in a room full of seniors while those spring breakers were on the beach.

If I would venture a guess, itís mostly seniors and juniors acting irresponsibly. With a smattering if everyone else.
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Old 5 April 2020, 01:32 AM   #5118
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Agree to a point. But the spring break pictures are what make people think that the younger generation at the problem.

The crowds were mainly kids. But I take your point, the older generation was in charge of the beaches.

And a ton of older people got on cruises when it was not smart or considerate of others. Many had to be rescued at tax payer expense. And many are still stuck on the boats.

Stay safe.

Iím not even sure what spring break is?! I saw the pictures but itís a US thing I guess?

I think blaming a certain age group is counter productive and Iím not sure how the topic got there to be honest. Just didnít want it developing into hostility between young and old. Iím exempt as Iím middle aged

Now I think a particular country needs to look at their dinning habits as this is not the first time this has happened. Last time we dodged a bullet but this time it was a direct hit


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Old 5 April 2020, 01:48 AM   #5119
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Originally Posted by superstarmar View Post
This event happened just 6 weeks before the
initial outbreak in Wuhan !
Coincidence? Anyoneís guess at this point I presume...
Just sharing some info I learned of recently.

http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/about
This also took place in NY. Very interesting.

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Old 5 April 2020, 01:51 AM   #5120
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This also took place in NY. Very interesting.

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Yes, very interesting I agree .
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Old 5 April 2020, 01:54 AM   #5121
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This event happened just 6 weeks before the
initial outbreak in Wuhan !
Coincidence? Anyoneís guess at this point I presume...
Just sharing some info I learned of recently.

http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/about
I wasn't going to mention it, for this isn't always a receptive group. It reads like a damn playbook (or instruction manual.)
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Old 5 April 2020, 01:55 AM   #5122
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This also took place in NY. Very interesting.

SM-N960U
I don't see a conspiracy here. Zoonotic disease from bats to pigs to people is the plot of the movie Contagion. It's not that far fetched. The simulation would not have involved any use of viruses or other dangerous materials. Bill Gates, a sponsor of the simulation, has been discussing pandemic risk for years, as he did in a 2015 "TED" presentation.
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Old 5 April 2020, 02:08 AM   #5123
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There are just way to many inconsistencies for you not to trot the thought there is more to it than meets the eye. If you really sit back and spend ample time going thru all the data and I mean just about everything you have to wonder why we are where we are today. I mean waiting till cases pop up till there is a voluntary quarantine or self isolation enacted is a questionable response. Self Isolate immediate to mitigate the spread before, No? That’s just one of many. I find the lack of action deeply troubling from a citizen stand-point.
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Old 5 April 2020, 02:10 AM   #5124
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There are just way to many inconsistencies for you not to trot the thought there is more to it than meets the eye. If you really sit back and spend ample time going thru all the data and I mean just about everything you have to wonder why we are where we are today. I mean waiting till cases pop up till there is a voluntary quarantine or self isolation enacted is a questionable response. Self Isolate immediate to mitigate the spread before, No? Thatís just one of many. I find the lack of action deeply troubling from a citizen stand-point.
Just curious. Do you think perhaps the police and military should round people up and force them to stay home?
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Old 5 April 2020, 02:15 AM   #5125
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I don't see a conspiracy here. Zoonotic disease from bats to pigs to people is the plot of the movie Contagion. It's not that far fetched. The simulation would not have involved any use of viruses or other dangerous materials. Bill Gates, a sponsor of the simulation, has been discussing pandemic risk for years, as he did in a 2015 "TED" presentation.
Glad you mentioned Bill Gates .
2 articles relating the Bill and Melinda Gates
foundation and Johnson and Johnson.
Both took part in event 201 and sponsored by
B and M Gates Foundation.

https://www.gatesfoundation.org/medi...seases-by-2020

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/ar...ww.newsmax.com
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Old 5 April 2020, 02:22 AM   #5126
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I think thatís a good way to look at it. And yes, you are very lucky. Me too.

But we all have our own perspective. I want to be on the front lines. I want to do what I can to help. I want to be a part of the solution. Even if itís just a small cog in the wheel.

So itís incredibly challenging mentally for me to be sitting in my home watching other people, including some of my own team, take risks. Iíve been out to show support and do certain things for my customers when required and Iím completely wrapped up in mask and gloves and Iím washing and following all protocols.

However, 99% of the time Iím inside. Watching. Instead of doing.

Partially because I donít want to infect anyone if Iím asymptomatic. Partially because I donít want to bring home anything to my amazing wife.

The idea of watching her sick, destroys me. The idea of watching her watch me be sick, I canít quite put the pain that conjure into words.

The worst part about this for me is not being able to help.
YOU ARE A PART OF THE SOLUTION!

Change your mindset. Unless youíre an essential worker, by staying home, you are giving all those people in the frontline breathing room to save more lives.

Thank you for staying home and doing what you can to slow this virus.
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Old 5 April 2020, 02:27 AM   #5127
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YOU ARE A PART OF THE SOLUTION!

Change your mindset. Unless youíre an essential worker, by staying home, you are giving all those people in the frontline breathing room to save more lives.

Thank you for staying home and doing what you can to slow this virus.
My company is construction support of supply chain.

So my teams are out. And they need a leader. Iím not turning a wrench, but I am keeping them on track.

Even so, Iím still barely ever out. My mindset wonít change. I want to help. But even with that fact, Iíll do my part and stay in unless absolutely necessary to keep the operation running.
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Old 5 April 2020, 02:28 AM   #5128
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the Coronavirus outbreak thread

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Originally Posted by Star Ferry View Post
I don't see a conspiracy here. Zoonotic disease from bats to pigs to people is the plot of the movie Contagion. It's not that far fetched. The simulation would not have involved any use of viruses or other dangerous materials. Bill Gates, a sponsor of the simulation, has been discussing pandemic risk for years, as he did in a 2015 "TED" presentation.


I certainly agree - this is no conspiracy.

In fact, the simulation being cited took the basic 2009 Swine Flu real world pandemic into case work. Changed the venue from Asia and/or Mexico to Brazil and made it more virulent than other options to build resilient brainstorming among the participants.

Kudos to Johns Hopkins for their prescience.


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Old 5 April 2020, 02:40 AM   #5129
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I certainly agree - this is no conspiracy.

In fact, the simulation being cited took the basic 2009 Swine Flu real world pandemic into case work. Changed the venue from Asia and/or to Brazil and made it more virulent than other options to build resilient brainstorming among the participants.

Kudos to Johns Hopkins for their prescience.


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Agree, no conspiracy. This was either zoonotic or accidental discharge from a health lab. There is no evidence of a conspiracy.

In the end, all conspiracy theories are based on a group of people being smart enough to conspire and disciplined enough to keep a secret. My experience is that most people are neither.

Stay Safe.
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Old 5 April 2020, 02:40 AM   #5130
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Just curious. Do you think perhaps the police and military should round people up and force them to stay home?
I understand your sarcasm but feel it is unwarranted. I am just baffled at the response as clearly mistakes have been made and continue to be made at a lot of costs, lives being the greatest.
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