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Old 15 September 2021, 09:53 AM   #31
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I think you should never think of doing such...Let them be!
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Old 15 September 2021, 09:55 AM   #32
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The writing is on the wall, which is why I laugh a bit at the crazy prices people are paying for some mechanicals right now. While many of us aren't ready to wear smartwatches, myself included, there will be a tipping point where the health features will make them necessary for our lives, and I can see the price dropping right out of mechanicals. Apple is already the largest "watch" seller in the world, despite the product still being relatively immature.

As far as wearing an Apple Watch and Rolex at the same time? No thanks. At that point, it's a bit like pulling your vintage 911 around on a trailer behind your Tesla. If you desire wearing a smartwhatch, I'd just commit to it.
‘Necessary’?…………
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Old 15 September 2021, 10:27 AM   #33
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Nah, it's not like the quartz crisis at all. With the quartz crisis, one could decide which type of watch to wear, but they essentially did the same thing, more or less, so mechanicals simply moved up market.

With the Apple Watch, which is very much still a "watch," you have a bevy of health and other features that are competing for wrist real estate, which is why you see posts like this from people who want stay interested in a somewhat esoteric hobby while simultaneously taking advantage of smartwatch features. Eventually, the mechanical watch will be the vestigial tail that falls off, just like my grandparents' currently-unused pocket watch succumbed to the wristwatch, the latter of which was seen as quite "feminine" for years prior.
Respectfully I would counter that an Apple Watch is no more a watch than a cell phone is a watch. I mean they both tell time, right? The only difference is that one you wear on your wrist and the other one you don’t and just because you wear it on your wrist doesn’t make it a watch any more than pouring vodka or bourbon into a martini glass makes it a martini. I would also counter that the decline of pocket watches had as much to do with the decline of vest pockets as it did anything else.
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Old 15 September 2021, 11:00 AM   #34
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Old 15 September 2021, 02:07 PM   #35
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All true as long as the wrist continues to be the preferred choice to convey information from your pocket computer (phone). How long do you think that will last? It strikes me as pretty unlikely that teeny-tiny little screens on our wrists will be the preferred medium for very long. I imagine smartwatches are just a temporary stop on the way to a better and more user-friendly mixed-reality approach. There's a reason everyone is also working on smartglasses, and even contact lenses. Currently those options are terrible -- even worse than the teeny little screen on your wrist -- but it won't be that way forever.

*edit* And of course, all of this ignores that we have two wrists, and don't actually have to choose.
I think it will last a while on the wrist. If anything, I could see more and more people giving up phones for the wrist device, ironically a bit like how the pocket watch morphed into the wristwatch. My wife already goes out quite a bit without her phone and only a cell-connected Apple Watch.

It's one thing to wear a mechanical watch to go along with having the time on the phone in your pocket, since a wristwatch is still more convenient, but wearing an Apple Watch on one wrist and a mechanical on the other is just embarrassing. As I mentioned above, it's like pulling around an old 911 with your Tesla.
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Old 15 September 2021, 02:11 PM   #36
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Respectfully I would counter that an Apple Watch is no more a watch than a cell phone is a watch. I mean they both tell time, right? The only difference is that one you wear on your wrist and the other one you don’t and just because you wear it on your wrist doesn’t make it a watch any more than pouring vodka or bourbon into a martini glass makes it a martini. I would also counter that the decline of pocket watches had as much to do with the decline of vest pockets as it did anything else.
So would you call a G-Shock a "watch?"

I honestly can't believe people around here think mechanical wristwatches around going to be around for a long time. We're already seeing a transition, and the smartwatch is a relatively new concept. My wife has an unused Omega sitting in a drawer, and my grade school son laughs and shrugs when I say he's going to inherit my watches someday.
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Old 15 September 2021, 02:14 PM   #37
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‘Necessary’?…………
Sure. Biometrics will continue to advance to the point where most of us won't want to live without the health warnings.
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Old 15 September 2021, 02:26 PM   #38
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Sure. Biometrics will continue to advance to the point where most of us won't want to live without the health warnings.
‘Won’t want to’ is a far cry from necessary. I think most would agree that life can move forward or screech to a halt with or without biometrics and instant feedback.

I wear my watch to tell the time, and then to enjoy a nicely made timepiece. Others may agree, or disagree. I sure hope I don’t live long enough to where we’re having charging ports implanted:-)
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Old 15 September 2021, 02:37 PM   #39
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Old 15 September 2021, 02:52 PM   #40
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So would you call a G-Shock a "watch?"

I honestly can't believe people around here think mechanical wristwatches around going to be around for a long time. We're already seeing a transition, and the smartwatch is a relatively new concept. My wife has an unused Omega sitting in a drawer, and my grade school son laughs and shrugs when I say he's going to inherit my watches someday.
Of course a G-Shock is a watch. You are holding the exception of your personal experience with your wife and son up as the rule. Mechanical watches are fascinating to ponder and study and own and discuss with like minded individuals. Watches have been around for centuries already. Apple “watches” have been around for six years. A hundred year old watch or clock freshly serviced tells time much like it did when it was new. Apple “watches” (products) age out in just a few years. Who is going to be sentimental about an Apple “watch” that can no longer download the new operating system? No one that’s who. Electronic devices are commodities, as soulless as toasters. Ascending perhaps in ubiquity but until Apple can bake sentimentality into their “watches” then mechanical watches will remain safe.
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Old 15 September 2021, 03:09 PM   #41
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there will be a tipping point where the health features will make them necessary for our lives,
Why would they ever be "necessary" for most people?
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Old 15 September 2021, 03:13 PM   #42
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Of course a G-Shock is a watch. You are holding the exception of your personal experience with your wife and son up as the rule. Mechanical watches are fascinating to ponder and study and own and discuss with like minded individuals. Watches have been around for centuries already. Apple “watches” have been around for six years. A hundred year old watch or clock freshly serviced tells time much like it did when it was new. Apple “watches” (products) age out in just a few years. Who is going to be sentimental about an Apple “watch” that can no longer download the new operating system? No one that’s who. Electronic devices are commodities, as soulless as toasters. Ascending perhaps in ubiquity but until Apple can bake sentimentality into their “watches” then mechanical watches will remain safe.
I’m not using anecdotes. The Apple Watch is the biggest selling watch in the world, and the Swiss watch industry, outside of a handful of brands, has been hit hard. The Apple Watch even began outselling the entire Swiss Watch industry a couple of years ago.

Don’t get me wrong, I love mechanical things. I wear mechanicals, drive vintage cars, and have even taken watchmaking classes, but I’m trying to be honest with the situation. If the OP wants to wear an Apple Watch, more power to him, but piggybacking it with a mechanical is silly. Just get a JLC Atmos clock or something for the desk, if marveling at mechanicals is still important.
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Old 15 September 2021, 03:15 PM   #43
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Why woymukd they ever be "necessary" for most people?
Postponing death, essentially. It’s all about health features over the coming years.
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Old 15 September 2021, 03:41 PM   #44
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Postponing death, essentially. It’s all about health features over the coming years.
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Old 15 September 2021, 03:41 PM   #45
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Old 15 September 2021, 03:42 PM   #46
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Old 15 September 2021, 03:42 PM   #47
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My wife has an unused Omega sitting in a drawer, and my grade school son laughs and shrugs when I say he's going to inherit my watches someday.
And my 14 year old mocks my wife's smart watch and already has a collection of traditional watches...
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Old 15 September 2021, 03:59 PM   #48
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I’m not using anecdotes. The Apple Watch is the biggest selling watch in the world, and the Swiss watch industry, outside of a handful of brands, has been hit hard. The Apple Watch even began outselling the entire Swiss Watch industry a couple of years ago.

Don’t get me wrong, I love mechanical things. I wear mechanicals, drive vintage cars, and have even taken watchmaking classes, but I’m trying to be honest with the situation. If the OP wants to wear an Apple Watch, more power to him, but piggybacking it with a mechanical is silly. Just get a JLC Atmos clock or something for the desk, if marveling at mechanicals is still important.
In the previous post that I quoted you were clearly using anecdotes. In this one you are reaching for statistics. Yes the number of Apple “watches” vs Swiss watches is larger but the more meaningful number is revenue which we can’t know. “Fashion changes, style never changes.”, said CoCo Chanel. At best Apple watches are fashionable. Will they ever have style? If so they sure have a long way to go. The news of the death of the Swiss watch industry has been greatly exaggerated based on six years of Apple “watch” data. The sky is not falling.
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Old 15 September 2021, 04:25 PM   #49
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Wondering if anyone has designed an aftermarket solution that integrates the Apple watch into a Rolex bracelet?

I'm thinking something where it would replace the clasp, so you have what amounts to a double-sided watch, with the Apple watch on the inside of the wrist.

I love my Rolex and don't plan to stop wearing it, but I'm looking for a way to integrate the fitness tracking of the Apple watch without wearing two watches.

I realize this is ridiculous. Thank you for your consideration :)
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Old 15 September 2021, 04:29 PM   #50
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Already happened…Not a Rolex though.






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That's actually quite a neat solution, but it might be "interesting" if you couldn't get the clasp centred under your wrist..
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Old 15 September 2021, 07:25 PM   #51
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Old 15 September 2021, 08:53 PM   #52
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I’m not using anecdotes. The Apple Watch is the biggest selling watch in the world, and the Swiss watch industry, outside of a handful of brands, has been hit hard. The Apple Watch even began outselling the entire Swiss Watch industry a couple of years ago.
.
First, you may be 100% correct about Apple Watches out-selling all the Swiss watch industry. An Apple watch costs… $500 (?) Ish? There are very few Swiss watches that are available at that price, and not as many people can afford a $5,000 Rolex as can afford a $500 watch. That right there could explain the large numbers of Apple Watches sold.

Second, you say the Swiss watch industry has been hit hard…. Yet, trying to buy a Rolex or a Patek or an AP is nearly impossible right now, unless you go gray and probably spend a great deal more then the MSRP. Doesn’t seem to me that those industries are hurting at all.
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Old 16 September 2021, 01:33 AM   #53
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In the previous post that I quoted you were clearly using anecdotes. In this one you are reaching for statistics. Yes the number of Apple “watches” vs Swiss watches is larger but the more meaningful number is revenue which we can’t know. “Fashion changes, style never changes.”, said CoCo Chanel. At best Apple watches are fashionable. Will they ever have style? If so they sure have a long way to go. The news of the death of the Swiss watch industry has been greatly exaggerated based on six years of Apple “watch” data. The sky is not falling.
Actually, we can get close to knowing. I've been having this discussion for years. The average price of a Swiss watch is about $1000 US, and they shipped 21.1 million units in 2019, so we're looking at around 21 billion in sales. The Apple Watch shipped 30.7 units in 2019, but the average price is unknown, with their watches in the $399-$799'ish range, so pretty close in terms of revenue (and this doesn't even include all the other smartwatch brands.)

2020 was even more dire for the Swiss watch industry, but this year they're back to 2019 levels, at least, while Apple Watch sales have been rising every year, even during 2020 and 2021.

In terms of style, it's impossible to say. As I mentioned earlier, wristwatches were seen as overly feminine until the World War soldiers popularized them. I did see a poll recently that teens highly prefer Apple Watches to mechanicals if given the choice, but that was a bit dubious, so not sure.

I'm obviously not saying the Swiss watch industry is disappearing overnight. I'm saying that it's on the decline, and the big brands like Rolex are trying to move even more upscale. I think we'll be in the peak for maybe the next 10 years, but I don't see it being the case in 30+...so I buy what I like, but not with the long term "investing" in mind that I'm seeing during the current Rolex hysteria. If anything, the current hype may hurt it in the long run (as the other long thread about hype discusses.). Who knows, maybe Rolex will leverage their brand and go "Porsche Taycan" with a smart Rolex someday?? :)

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Old 16 September 2021, 01:39 AM   #54
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I never understood these fitness trackers. It seems to me that most people wearing them aren't into fitness but rather use them to count steps so they can justify another piece of chocolate cake.

When doing exercise or some other activity you want to track, then wear the fitness watch. When you're not, wear a normal watch.

If you think you're getting exercise going to the beer fridge for another bottle, then I'm afraid your fitness tracker is lying to you.
the fitness tracker does count every sip of beer as a step, so there's that
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Old 16 September 2021, 01:46 AM   #55
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the fitness tracker does count every sip of beer as a step, so there's that
That is tracking your "fitness" in a way
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Old 16 September 2021, 02:11 AM   #56
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Actually, we can get close to knowing. I've been having this discussion for years. The average price of a Swiss watch is about $1000 US, and they shipped 21.1 million units in 2019, so we're looking at around 21 billion in sales. The Apple Watch shipped 30.7 units in 2019, but the average price is unknown, with their watches in the $399-$799'ish range, so pretty close in terms of revenue (and this doesn't even include all the other smartwatch brands.)

2020 was even more dire for the Swiss watch industry, but this year they're back to 2019 levels, at least, while Apple Watch sales have been rising every year, even during 2020 and 2021.

In terms of style, it's impossible to say. As I mentioned earlier, wristwatches were seen as overly feminine until the World War soldiers popularized them. I did see a poll recently that teens highly prefer Apple Watches to mechanicals if given the choice, but that was a bit dubious, so not sure.

I'm obviously not saying the Swiss watch industry is disappearing overnight. I'm saying that it's on the decline, and the big brands like Rolex are trying to move even more upscale. I think we'll be in the peak for maybe the next 10 years, but I don't see it being the case in 30+...so I buy what I like, but not with the long term "investing" in mind that I'm seeing during the current Rolex hysteria. If anything, the current hype may hurt it in the long run (as the other long thread about hype discusses.). Who knows, maybe Rolex will leverage their brand and go "Porsche Taycan" with a smart Rolex someday?? :)

Before I make two points let me state that I am enjoying this friendly discussion.

The first point is that since you’ve admittedly been having this discussion for years it appears that I have fallen into the trap of trying to convince you of something that’s already fixed in your mind.

The second point is that you say we can get close to citing revenue by using values that you provide no reference for and then try to slide other smart watch brands into your argument to further your point.

While I acknowledge that the situation is fluid I remain steadfastly unconvinced that the situation is dire for the Swiss watch industry, at least until I see more data.
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Old 16 September 2021, 03:48 AM   #57
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Before I make two points let me state that I am enjoying this friendly discussion.

The first point is that since you’ve admittedly been having this discussion for years it appears that I have fallen into the trap of trying to convince you of something that’s already fixed in your mind.
values that you provide no reference for and then try to slide other smart watch brands into your argument to further your point.

While I acknowledge that the situation is fluid I remain steadfastly unconvinced that the situation is dire for the Swiss watch industry, at least until I see more data.
I agree. Just a friendly discussion. It's just watches, which we all love to talk about. I'd certainly rather talk about this than have another thread about empty ADs.


To your first point: No, people thought I was crazy in watch forums a five years ago for predicting this, and the numbers started bearing it out about three years ago.

Second point, I didn't want to send a deluge of links like it's an actual debate. I can certainly back up all these numbers. Here are a couple of sources: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-w...stand/45896950

https://journal.hautehorlogerie.org/...oses-a-decade/

https://www.businessinsider.com/appl...navirus-2020-5

I should mention that, as we know, higher end watches like Rolex are obviously doing well. I'm just looking at the canary in the coal mine for the industry as a whole.
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Old 16 September 2021, 03:54 AM   #58
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Excellent info! I agree that in time, a mechanical watch will be just a piece of jewelry. I believe it will still be around, but in 50 ish years they will be novelties. I guess we better enjoy this crazy time while we still can.
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Old 16 September 2021, 03:54 AM   #59
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There was a canary in the coal mine during the quartz crisis. Ultimately it’s song sever played out.
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Old 16 September 2021, 04:14 AM   #60
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if you want phone notification, get something smaller like Garmin vivosmart and wear it on the other wrist.

i have to say, i tried it for a while but that didn't stick.
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