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8 November 2019, 06:47 AM | #1 |
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GENEVA AUCTION 9 NOVEMBER 2019 - Tiffany stamp
Curious what the forum thinks of this watch? Apparently there is an auction in Geneva on November 9 specifically dealing with dual brand high-end timepieces. This one has the Tiffany and Co stamp, with no papers or at least none mentioned. I was curious about the ROW stamp on the movement that indicates it was made for the American Market. I'm sure some of you have seen a few of my posts and know I too have a T-stamp on the dial (rootbeer) but no papers or such having inherited it from my Dad. Are any of you familiar with this ROW engraving on the movement? Here's a link, and a few pics FYI. https://www.phillips.com/detail/rolex/CH080319/36
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8 November 2019, 08:16 AM | #2 |
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Like the piece very much, except the stamp. For this forum that's kind of the consensus. If you don't have the paperwork to support it, then its a detractor.
But that is this forum, and someone will be willing to pay up to 2x for this piece as the estimate suggests... |
8 November 2019, 08:32 AM | #3 | |
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8 November 2019, 08:35 AM | #4 | |
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8 November 2019, 09:17 AM | #5 |
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8 November 2019, 11:17 AM | #6 | |
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8 November 2019, 11:35 AM | #7 | |
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8 November 2019, 08:52 AM | #8 |
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Gilt dial with white Tiffany writing.....I’ll pass at double the price
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8 November 2019, 08:53 AM | #9 |
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Without the provenance, its just an altered dial IMO
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8 November 2019, 10:15 AM | #10 |
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Plenty of hyperbole in that description.
It always amazes me that they end up with typos in these descriptions. You’d think that when you’re selling something for tens of thousands of dollars, you would catch things like “The date hand presents a small arrow tip.” HQ Milton has these little mistakes all the time also... Maybe it’s just because I’m an editor? Lol! |
8 November 2019, 10:40 AM | #11 | |
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9 November 2019, 12:35 AM | #12 | |
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Factual error: The *24-hour* hand presents a small arrow tip. Weird verb choice: The 24-hour hand *has* a small arrow tip. Missing hyphen: The 24-hour hand has a *small-arrow* tip. I do a bit of editing, too. Pedants unite! |
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8 November 2019, 10:34 AM | #13 |
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With regard to signed dials: no proof of provenance = no go.
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8 November 2019, 10:58 AM | #14 |
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I think @Cooper33 provided an answer to the question regarding the ROW engraving on the movement. Thank you all for your comments
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11 November 2019, 11:59 AM | #15 |
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in case anybody was interested in the final auction price.
Estimate CHF30,000 - 60,000 €27,600-55,300 $30,200-60,400 SOLD FOR CHF112,500 |
11 November 2019, 05:32 PM | #16 |
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Wow... Didn't see that coming.
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11 November 2019, 04:03 PM | #17 |
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Am I drunk or did it sell for $112,000 us?????
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11 November 2019, 04:05 PM | #18 |
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Wow. Just NOPE
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11 November 2019, 06:50 PM | #19 |
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Interesting that the general opinion on this forum is ‘not worth anything without the paperwork’, however, obviously worth something considering what it sold for.
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11 November 2019, 07:41 PM | #20 | |
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Price is somewhat high but a gilt GMT with a dial in that condition would everyday fetch up towards 40-50 at Phillips. Finding a great condition double signed by Tiffany is not crazy to have a 2-3x premium. I hope the buyer will be happy with his/her new watch.
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11 November 2019, 08:15 PM | #21 |
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Is this the case, or do many / most of the big auction houses carry extensive disclaimers about dial authenticity / restoration / repainting etc?
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11 November 2019, 09:21 PM | #22 | |
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Just look at AQ these days.. Most people expect problems with their lots. You would need to know what you are doing before spending your money there.
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11 November 2019, 10:26 PM | #23 |
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Not by this correspondent, at least !
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*Comex:5513,5514,1665x2,16800x2,16600 *Mil sub:5517x2,5513x9,5512 *Submariner:6536/1x2,5508,5513 PCG u/line & double SWISS (America's Cup),5513 giltx2, 5513 m-firstx2,5513 gloss WGx2,1680 Red,1680 White Mk1 & Mk2 *Sea-Dweller:1665 DRSDx3,Great Whitex3 *GMT-Master:6542x2 (1 Bakelite),1675x8 (2 gilt), 16750 & SeaKing 116710LN *Explorer:1016x6 (1 gilt),5500x3,14270 Blackout, Orange 1655 x4 *Milgauss 1019x3 *Cosmo 6263 *RNCD DSSD 116660. |
12 November 2019, 05:52 AM | #24 |
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This is a bit of a contradiction in the collecting world of Tiffany dials. If many of these “Tiffany” dials are not able to be verified as having come from Tiffany without the proper paperwork, the opposite must also be true. Unless the font is terrible, or someone would confirm that Tiffany was added later, they also wouldn’t be able to prove it to be fake. That being the case, an auction house standing behind it should give no additional comfort than anyone else. I wouldn’t have any interest in a Tiffany dial without provenance from Rolex.
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12 November 2019, 06:04 AM | #25 | |
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Maybe not logical at all but that is me. Obviously at least two bidders trusted Phillips in this case.
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12 November 2019, 08:53 AM | #26 | |
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I’m honestly curious and just trying to understand the thought. I really think this is a big problem in vintage collectibles of all types. The auction house has no additional resources in verifying that it’s original than a guy on the street corner, or they would have advertised it as having provenance.
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12 November 2019, 04:21 AM | #27 |
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Yes, I was quite shocked too. BTW, Swiss dollars = Us Dollars. Of course everything went for double and triple the estimate, which I found quite strange too.
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12 November 2019, 10:10 AM | #28 |
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I think the basic assumption with a high-end auction house is the vetting of the piece by an expert that is for some reason given even more expertise simply by having been employed at one of these houses. Just being sold by Christie's provides a certain exclusivity to what ever is being sold. That said, how much different would it be to send ti to your local watchmaker and have them do an appraisal. Probably not much but there is that element of Je ne sait quoi. Oh, and that last phrase is probably in their marketing literature somewhere…
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12 November 2019, 11:00 AM | #29 | |
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12 November 2019, 11:34 AM | #30 | |
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