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13 May 2021, 09:54 AM | #31 |
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You mean something like this Salmon dial AP?
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13 May 2021, 05:41 PM | #32 |
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I was expecting another Nautilus not long after the green one and was told quite sternly on this forum to stop spreading false rumours! Imagine rumours and speculation on the Rolex forum!
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13 May 2021, 08:06 PM | #33 | |
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My suggestion would be: stop advertising the nautilus and aquanaut, remove them from the catalog (like with the 1st 5711P) and issue a statement or directive to dealers what it takes for a client to qualify for one. "A reasonable wait" is a very arbitrary concept... Fact of the matter is that, in terms of pricing, the 5711 and the 5167 were positioned at the lower end of the Patek price range which is where most new Patek clients tend to start. |
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13 May 2021, 09:30 PM | #34 | |
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The 1st 5711P was produced over a number of years with probably less than 100 produced and was reserved for top clients, the number of Aquanauts and Nautilus produced per year is probably more than 1/3 of Patek's production and is the bread and butter of AD's but you want them somehow hidden. Sounds like a plan. |
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13 May 2021, 10:01 PM | #35 |
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13 May 2021, 10:14 PM | #36 |
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13 May 2021, 10:33 PM | #37 |
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13 May 2021, 10:48 PM | #38 |
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13 May 2021, 11:17 PM | #39 | |
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I'm just being silly Mad thing about these forums and the internet - anybody can read into anything i.e what Mr stern has said in his interview. As we can all agree, The only time we know something new is out is when we see it on the website in majority of cases. PS You have some incredible pieces |
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14 May 2021, 04:04 AM | #40 | |
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Russel, I know you. You probably didnt mean it this way but lets not make it appear as if I made a suggestion that they should pretend as if they no longer make the pieces. For the record I said no such thing. It is not my place nor my duty to think of a solution to problems that Mr. Stern says he is trying to deal with. I simply communicated my lack of understanding with the current state of affairs and the supposed solution presented. Like with the 5711P there is no point in offering pieces in a catalog if they are not available to the general public. Making announcements about the special final 5711 in interviews is unnecessary if this watch is only made and given to reward your best customers. The "somehow" has already been demonstrated by Patek with the 5711P where, for a year, even many ADs did not know the existence of this watch. They dont need to be hidden, but they dont need to be catalog/showcase presented either. Just my 2c What makes you think the aquanauts and nautilus are the bread and butter of ADs? The ADs I know are sick of these models because they take up an unjustified large share of their daily work answering phone calls from cold callers asking for aquanaut or nautilus. Sales staff at the Salon explained how they frequently get walk ins who ask for these watches without any prior purchase history and know next to nothing about the brand history. Obviously these are politely declined, but still take up a lot of time . Most of their sales are apparently still Calatravas. Mr. Stern has said in numerous interviews that it is his target not to allocate more than one third of production to steel sports watches which also includes the top seller Twenty4. According to some of the sales staff at the Geneva salon, if he gets anywhere close to that then it could mean around 10'000 ladies, and 10'000 mens of both aquanaut (5167, 5164, 5968) and Nautilus (5711,5712,5726,5990). Nobody claims to know the exact numbers D |
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14 May 2021, 04:11 AM | #41 | |
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14 May 2021, 04:23 AM | #42 | |
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5711P was extremely limited special piece and is very different from the latest green models - every AD is getting green pieces and they are in charge of allocating to their clients, some will go to regular clients and some possibly to new clients (there is a post on this forum). Nautilus and Aquanauts are the AD’s bread and butter both by volume and by driving general interest in the brand (28% of Patek range is Nautilus or aquanauts and the Nautilus is by far the biggest single model range), Calatrava’s are nothing like the biggest sellers, there has been a very small range in recent years - now being addressed I’m pleased to say. I take it from your reference to the percentage of SS watches that you are not including PM Aquanaut or Nautilus pieces in your unadvertised grouping? All makes perfect sense now. |
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14 May 2021, 08:46 PM | #43 | |
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I honestly don't know, it's not the sort of conversation I've ever had with anyone that actually knows the facts, but I do recall a conversation with an AD ages ago who said that he sells a couple of Calatravas for every one Nautilus. |
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14 May 2021, 09:36 PM | #44 | |
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Most stores have a Calatrava or three in the window, sports models are in and out without hitting the window - both ladies and gents. A quick search on Chrono24 reveals 1900 Patek for sale made since 2010, of these 1900 pieces over 800 (42%+) are Nautilus or Aquanaut - clearly totally unscientific and open to dealer abuse listing pieces that aren't available but still interesting. |
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15 May 2021, 05:56 PM | #45 | |
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Of the 30 Nautilus models for sale some of them are very rare, but of the 15 Calatravas for sale only one or two are rare. I rub shoulders with some high net worth people and I'm often in a 'watch-rich' environment, but I hardly ever meet anyone that owns a Nautilus, whereas I often come across people with a Calatrava. I own two Calatravas, but only one Nautilus. On this basis, my (also totally unscientific) assumption was that there are a lot more Calatravas out there than Nautilus. I figured that Patek make a lot more Calatravas as their bread & butter watches than they do Nautilus, in the same way that Rolex makes/sells more Datejusts than Daytonas. |
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15 May 2021, 06:46 PM | #46 | |
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Interesting Hodinkee interview with Stern
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These sales folks job was to create more appetite for the brand. I personally found it annoying as they play with your emotions of come and touch them, they are special, but not for you. Note: I have high respect for Patek and the sales agents at the Salon who are professionals. I just think there is something off with the marketing. ...and then I remember it is just a watch. |
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15 May 2021, 08:09 PM | #47 | |
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Look, but don’t touch. Touch, but don’t taste. Taste, but don’t swallow. Now go sleep with your sister. |
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15 May 2021, 08:45 PM | #48 |
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Ok.
What would have been a better alternative? Not to show you the watches? |
15 May 2021, 09:32 PM | #49 |
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15 May 2021, 09:47 PM | #50 |
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My AD does something even better, he said he'd put me on the list and it was very, very unlikely, but there is still an outside chance
Studies have shown that if you pursue your goals and there is a good chance of success then your brain releases chemicals that make you feel good. But the crazy thing is that as the likelihood of success dwindles your brain releases even more chemicals - it's the thrill of the chase. Patek are dangling a carrot and creating a chase, the rational part of your brain can make sense of it and tells you to stop, but the older and more instinctive parts of your brain can smell blood and it thinks there might be a chance. |
15 May 2021, 10:45 PM | #51 |
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I don't think there is a way how PP can get this right.
Imagine they would build a new manufacturing plant for SS watches only, to keep up with the demand, and suddenly 5711s would be available at the old list price of EUR 17500 or what it was, with a small discount if you buy two. No? Then how should they play it? |
15 May 2021, 11:06 PM | #52 | |
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16 May 2021, 12:21 AM | #53 | |
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as for the business model, it's a no-brainer to cater to the best customers first. how would you feel if you (not you Russell, but in general) spent 200k, then hear a walk-in ended up with a watch you have been waiting for. it's a matter of how accessible do these brands want to make themselves. seems like Rolex has stepped it up a notch and became more elite, fine no problem for me. time will tell |
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16 May 2021, 12:22 AM | #54 |
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16 May 2021, 02:20 PM | #55 |
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This is controversial but having spent some time reviewing the models out there and making enquiries I think PP are still very dependant on the sports watches for brand recognition and turning people on to the brand - if I were being dramatic then I might suggest possibly even for their survival. If PP dropped the sports range tomorrow then they may not survive.
When they know you have money to spend ADs are very keen to sell you complications and grand complications, few of those are in high demand, most can be seen on the shelves in any busy AD or boutique. The sports watches sell themselves, the other watches not so much, they still need keen sales people to move them on in sufficient numbers to not become a Nautilus/Aqua only brand. The Calatrava seems to be the exception, there is no shortage of them (I saw one purchased recently and as soon as the guy left the SA bought another one from the storeroom to put in it's place) but they are still very popular and seem not to need any sales work to sell them. Everyone should have a classic dress watch in their collection and if you only have one then it should be a Calatrava. |
16 May 2021, 10:54 PM | #56 | |
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16 May 2021, 11:39 PM | #57 |
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Maybe they could M&A up and take over Czapek? Or Frederique Philippe Constant(in)?
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17 May 2021, 12:03 AM | #58 |
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17 May 2021, 03:17 AM | #59 | |
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Making such special pieces and widely advertising such special pieces is part of the allure of Patek Philippe. That is why 1 of ones and 1 of threes Fitch millions of CHF in auctions. Marketing and advertising is part of brand equity. And it is part of why we love and desire PP. then go out and work hard to spend our hard earned $ on them. Part of the satisfaction Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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