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Old 18 February 2017, 05:48 AM   #1
dexvd
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Why do APs not hold their value as well or appreciate like Rolex or Patek?

I am interested in eventually purchasing a SS Royal oak (likely a 15450) but find their isn't the same urgency due to price appreciation as there is with Rolex watches that I am also interested in purchasing.

Rather than thinking in terms of investing, I'm thinking in terms of what to buy now as I may be priced out of the watch in 5 more years, that seems to be the case with some of the Rolex watches (for example the 16520 and 1016 are two watches that if I would have bought 5-10 years ago that draw my interest but not for Royal Oaks, why is that?

I look at the prices of 4100 or 14790 Royal Oaks as a suggestion of how the price of 15450 may change over time, would you suggest the 15450 will perform differently in terms of the used or vintage market, if so why?
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Old 18 February 2017, 05:58 AM   #2
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I do feel the margin do drop a little further on AP than rolex and PP. That could be because they are pretty pricey SS watches. Nothing in the rolex collection in SS compares to those prices. So over time theres no material value just watch itself value. But i believe that PP SS watches drop as well. In a larger margin than rolex but again its all relative to price. The price of AP and PP give it more of a margin to drop over time.
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Old 18 February 2017, 06:06 AM   #3
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I do feel the margin do drop a little further on AP than rolex and PP. That could be because they are pretty pricey SS watches. Nothing in the rolex collection in SS compares to those prices. So over time theres no material value just watch itself value. But i believe that PP SS watches drop as well. In a larger margin than rolex but again its all relative to price. The price of AP and PP give it more of a margin to drop over time.
+1. And it's always about how much you get the Rolex/Patek/AP. If you buy right you'll play good ball
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Old 18 February 2017, 06:15 AM   #4
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I think you have to compare percentage drops the dollar drops. I wonder how a 5711 nautilus holds up long term.

I think also rolex holds value more because people know that brand more than AP. People who try to show off and are ignorant typically buy rolex. Majority of people don't even know who AP is.

And patek depreciates less than all of them probably due to it's heritage and marketing, also it's classic style. AP has a very specific style.
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Old 18 February 2017, 06:21 AM   #5
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There are plenty of Patek's and Rolex that don't hold their value as well.

If you are looking at 15450, it's not the most popular AP made.

Key is first but I watch you like/want, second get the best price up front, third enjoy the watch.

Every brand has their 'main stay pieces'.
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Old 18 February 2017, 08:03 AM   #6
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Pay retail for a PM rolex or patek 5960 and watch how much they depreciate....

Many APs hold their value very well or appreciate but the key is buying the right models at the right price. Above all else buy what you actually enjoy wearing.
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Old 18 February 2017, 08:09 AM   #7
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Pay retail for a PM rolex or patek 5960 and watch how much they depreciate....

Many APs hold their value very well or appreciate but the key is buying the right models at the right price. Above all else buy what you actually enjoy wearing.
The only AP that holds its value right now is the steel skeleton. Everything else you can buy for 25-30% off and you'll still lose money when you go to resell. If you have an example of another model that you can get out even or make money on, I'm all ears.
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Old 18 February 2017, 08:15 AM   #8
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The only AP that holds its value right now is the steel skeleton. Everything else you can buy for 25-30% off and you'll still lose money when you go to resell. If you have an example of another model that you can get out even or make money on, I'm all ears.
Buy at 35% and make 5%

At the end of the day--gotta buy right ANY brand. Period.
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Old 18 February 2017, 09:09 AM   #9
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The only AP that holds its value right now is the steel skeleton. Everything else you can buy for 25-30% off and you'll still lose money when you go to resell. If you have an example of another model that you can get out even or make money on, I'm all ears.
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Pay retail for a PM rolex or patek 5960 and watch how much they depreciate....

Many APs hold their value very well or appreciate but the key is buying the right models at the right price. Above all else buy what you actually enjoy wearing.

The 15407 is holding for right now. But I can get one 28% off right now through my AD. In a year or so they will depreciate too. Granted the previous openworked only depreciated by about 5-6k.

Mainly the only APs that actual hold value are the limited edition racing ROOs. Then there are a few boutique exclusive like the CE diver and I'm sure the CE PC that hold value.

But again yes the typical rolex does hold value better than the typical AP. Say diver to sub, or sub/daytona to 15400. The reason for this is lower barrier to entry, and also the whole "baller" stigma that comes with owning a rolex. AP is for the true watch enthusiast whereas rolex not so much.

You see more women rolling around with all gold rolexes than all gold APs for a reason.

But, I don't know any modern day rolex that went up in value. And the daytona C doesn't count because that is temporary. Whereas the AP schumacher has gone up and that is here to stay most likely.
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Old 18 February 2017, 09:13 AM   #10
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Well, I am not able to buy AP's at a 35% discount.....that would be nice though. Either way, their secondary values are horrible currently. I am concerned about the brand.
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Old 18 February 2017, 09:15 AM   #11
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Well, I am not able to buy AP's at a 35% discount.....that would be nice though. Either way, their secondary values are horrible currently. I am concerned about the brand.
Lately the whole watch market sucks. AP for the first time in a long time have dropped to 35% used. You can't get that price new.

But some of them are now hitting 35% in the used market when they typically held fast at 27-30%, unless they were like 10+ years old.
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Old 18 February 2017, 09:38 AM   #12
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No one answer to this. I have made money on several APs and lost money on several APs. Exactly the same on Pateks. Buy the right model well and there should be very limited downside.
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Old 18 February 2017, 10:34 AM   #13
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I'll continue to buy AP bc I like the brand and and if I loose a little bc I bought right I am ok as I have enjoyed the time on my wrist. I consider it a win win
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Old 18 February 2017, 10:47 AM   #14
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When discussing pre-own prices, I think it's important to differentiate between end-user price or dealer price. Speaking from experience, there can be quite a bit of difference. Selling to the former will take more time / effort but with a better price but selling to the latter is easier with less fuss / complication, but one often gets low-balled because the dealer as the middle-man will try to make as much margin as possible.

Important is to buy at the right price and also buy only what you like.
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Old 18 February 2017, 12:43 PM   #15
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+1. And it's always about how much you get the Rolex/Patek/AP. If you buy right you'll play good ball
Agree. Buy any of these 3 at the right price - no lose
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Old 18 February 2017, 01:06 PM   #16
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No one answer to this. I have made money on several APs and lost money on several APs. Exactly the same on Pateks. Buy the right model well and there should be very limited downside.
which ones you make money on?

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Agree. Buy any of these 3 at the right price - no lose
Easier said than done. What is really considered the right price? I thought my 44 CE was at the right price but still lost 2k selling it. Granted 2k isn't THAT much but it was like another 10% on the massive discount I got on it in the first place.
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Old 18 February 2017, 01:33 PM   #17
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which ones you make money on?



Easier said than done. What is really considered the right price? I thought my 44 CE was at the right price but still lost 2k selling it. Granted 2k isn't THAT much but it was like another 10% on the massive discount I got on it in the first place.
I meant buying these 3 brands at preowned price points (the lowest at that you can haggle for). Also makes you avoid the hit that comes with buying brand new and its out of the box depreciation.
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Old 18 February 2017, 04:41 PM   #18
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Sometimes we make bad decisions in Buying watches. It happens.
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Old 18 February 2017, 05:27 PM   #19
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Since when was buying watches an investment vehicle? It is an expensive hobby. Watches are depreciating assets and should be treated as such IMO. Buy what you like and enjoy it. If you lose some money on it if you decide to sell it, think of it as the cost you paid for the use of it during your time of ownership. Life is too short and how much we could lose on a luxury item should be the least of our worries. Just my humble opinion..
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Old 18 February 2017, 06:54 PM   #20
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which ones you make money on?
I have sent you PM.
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Old 18 February 2017, 10:42 PM   #21
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Since when was buying watches an investment vehicle? It is an expensive hobby. Watches are depreciating assets and should be treated as such IMO. Buy what you like and enjoy it. If you lose some money on it if you decide to sell it, think of it as the cost you paid for the use of it during your time of ownership. Life is too short and how much we could lose on a luxury item should be the least of our worries. Just my humble opinion..
Not looking at them as an investment vehicle but if in 5-10 years a 16520 Daytona is going to be $25000 and the 15450st is going to be worth $10,000 then I want to buy the watches that are going to get more expensive or too expensive now. I feel like I may be able to get a new 15450st now for cheaper than I can get a good white dial A series 16520 Daytona. Like I remember seeing 1016 explorers for 8-10k thinking, I would have loved to have buy one of those at 5k, now I feel the average prices see them for is closer to 15k... Speaking in Canadian terms so lower those prices by ~22% to think in terms of USD.

From the feedback I have gotten though it seems likely that I will be able to buy a 15450ST in 5 years for cheaper than I can today, while as with some of the 5 digit reference Rolex models I like I may not be able to afford them in 5 years.
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Old 19 February 2017, 01:11 AM   #22
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I'll continue to buy AP bc I like the brand and and if I loose a little bc I bought right I am ok as I have enjoyed the time on my wrist. I consider it a win win
+1...definitely have to buy right but at the end of the day we are buying to enjoy and not as a pure investment, so appreciation is a bonus for me, but limited downside is the best case scenario that I usually aim for.
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Old 19 February 2017, 01:23 AM   #23
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Only a few Rolexes and PPs hold their value and the one's that rise are deliberately restricted in supply, so AP is no different to most brands. Looks like AP UK are having another price rise next month so I'm glad I bought last year and will be making money on my RG.
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Old 19 February 2017, 01:29 AM   #24
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Buy at 35% and make 5%

At the end of the day--gotta buy right ANY brand. Period.
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Old 19 February 2017, 01:30 AM   #25
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Only a few Rolexes and PPs hold their value and the one's that rise are deliberately restricted in supply, so AP is no different to most brands. Looks like AP UK are having another price rise next month so I'm glad I bought last year and will be making money on my RG.
A bit OT but isn't there some talk earlier on about an upcoming AP London boutique? Esp when the deal with Marcus of Bond Street felt thru and resulting in their largest AD in London ending the distributorship. What's the latest news on this?

I think almost every watch brand has dedicated boutique in London by now except AP.
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Old 19 February 2017, 02:11 AM   #26
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Talking recently to the very pleasant young lady at AP UK in Brooks Mews, she said it seemed an illogical omission not to have an official boutique in London, but didn't seem to think that one was imminently planned.
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Old 19 February 2017, 03:48 AM   #27
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I totally agree with this. think of it as a rental fee... :)

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Since when was buying watches an investment vehicle? It is an expensive hobby. Watches are depreciating assets and should be treated as such IMO. Buy what you like and enjoy it. If you lose some money on it if you decide to sell it, think of it as the cost you paid for the use of it during your time of ownership. Life is too short and how much we could lose on a luxury item should be the least of our worries. Just my humble opinion..
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Old 19 February 2017, 03:51 AM   #28
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All depends on how you buy it initially. I bought a BNIB 15400 with my name on the warranty 3 years ago from Thanh Do and can sell it today for what I paid or a few hundred more if I needed to.
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Old 19 February 2017, 04:11 AM   #29
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The only AP that holds its value right now is the steel skeleton. Everything else you can buy for 25-30% off and you'll still lose money when you go to resell. If you have an example of another model that you can get out even or make money on, I'm all ears.
RBII, Schumi even the ceramic diver is holding pretty strong. It really comes down to buying right. I pucheased my 15400 before AP cut dealer margin and had a price increase. I can sell it now and make a small profit.
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Old 19 February 2017, 04:23 AM   #30
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All depends on how you buy it initially. I bought a BNIB 15400 with my name on the warranty 3 years ago from Thanh Do and can sell it today for what I paid or a few hundred more if I needed to.
Uhhhh did you buy it for like 11k? lol
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