GMT 16710 with Black Dial

[mmbiker]

I have a chance to get the 16710 GMT with black dial only.

If i go buy a pepsi alumnium insert, will the value go up? How hard is it to get a geniune pepsi insert?

any comment is appreciated.

thx

[mtgjr]

Originally Posted by mmbiker

I have a chance to get the 16710 GMT with black dial only.

If i go buy a pepsi alumnium insert, will the value go up? How hard is it to get a geniune pepsi insert?

any comment is appreciated.

thx

The 16710 only ever came with a black dial.

Regarding the insert....the value to you? Only if you like Pepsi better than black.

[watchwatcher]

Yeah...agree with Mike. Are you saying the insert is black?

[mmbiker]

Sorry, i meant the watch comes with a black aluminum insert for the bezel.

[Nairn1980]

ADs will only supply a Pepsi bezel, I believe, if your watch was originally a Coke or Pepsi. Coke and Pepsi are meant to be interchangeable, but officially black is meant to stay black.

Also I believe the serial on USA models indicates whether it was originally black or a two-colour bezel.

[lhawli]

Originally Posted by mmbiker

I have a chance to get the 16710 GMT with black dial only.



If i go buy a pepsi alumnium insert, will the value go up? How hard is it to get a geniune pepsi insert?



any comment is appreciated.



thx

I think you mean black insert as all 16710 came with black dials.

The serial number of the watch always points to the origin of whether is was originally a black insert or Pepsi or Coke. So the value would not really make a difference, however a buyer might pay more for your black bezel if they knew you had two interchangeable Pepsi and Coke bezels.

As for sourcing, plenty for sale and easy to source original and authentic bezels all over the net and forums including WatchRecon.


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[mmbiker]

Originally Posted by lhawli

I think you mean black insert as all 16710 came with black dials.

The serial number of the watch always points to the origin of whether is was originally a black insert or Pepsi or Coke. So the value would not really make a difference, however a buyer might pay more for your black bezel if they knew you had two interchangeable Pepsi and Coke bezels.

As for sourcing, plenty for sale and easy to source original and authentic bezels all over the net and forums including WatchRecon.


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Roughly how much for a genuine Pepsi insert?


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[lhawli]

Originally Posted by mmbiker

Roughly how much for a genuine Pepsi insert?


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Oh boy! There's so many different ones, from faded to NOS to fat font to vintage to pink ...etc...

I regular decent one can be had between $300-500. Can go up to north of $1000 for some. I'm talking just the insert here and no bezel included.


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[padi56]

Originally Posted by mmbiker

Roughly how much for a genuine Pepsi insert?


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Around $75 from Rolex the 16710 was meant to have interchangeable inserts, its only certain countries like the USA that there was anything on the paperwork to state what insert it had.And anyone paying crazy prices for a 16710 insert must be sixpence short of a shilling.

[mmbiker]

Originally Posted by padi56

Around $75 from Rolex the 16710 was meant to have interchangeable inserts, its only certain countries like the USA that there was anything on the paperwork to state what insert it had.

Is that right!

I know the owner for this black GMT and he bought it new in Hong Kong.

So the paper work would not say it is a black GMT?



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[lhawli]

Originally Posted by mmbiker

Is that right!

I know the owner for this black GMT and he bought it new in Hong Kong.

So the paper work would not say it is a black GMT?



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Paper work or not, the serial number is on the watch and the movement and from there they can tell what original insert came with the watch.

Personally here in NA (Canada for me) I was not aware you could take a black insert 16710 and buy a Pepsi or Coke straight up from Rolex!

I guess we all learn something new.


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[lhawli]

Originally Posted by padi56

Around $75 from Rolex the 16710 was meant to have interchangeable inserts, its only certain countries like the USA that there was anything on the paperwork to state what insert it had.And anyone paying crazy prices for a 16710 insert must be sixpence short of a shilling.

I always respect your opinion :)

But if it was meant to be interchangeable then why is the Pepsi and Coke selling at a premium much higher the the classic black if all you had to do was walk into a Rolex AD and slap a Pepsi for $75?

Something needs to be said about the original serials that came with a Pepsi no?


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[Speed]

Originally Posted by lhawli

Paper work or not, the serial number is on the watch and the movement and from there they can tell what original insert came with the watch.

Personally here in NA (Canada for me) I was not aware you could take a black insert 16710 and buy a Pepsi or Coke straight up from Rolex!

I guess we all learn something new.


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It's a roll of the dice whether or not a RSC will sell you a random insert and let you keep the one you have.

[mtgjr]

Originally Posted by mmbiker

Roughly how much for a genuine Pepsi insert?


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The cheapest way to acquire a new BLRO insert is from an RSC or an independent watchmaker with a Rolex parts account. I got mine for $125 from Rik Dietel at Timecare Inc., while it was in for service. I also kept the original insert, which is something an RSC may or may not let you do. If you want to order one over the Internet and don't mind spending a little bit more money (around $200), reach out to "ommsen" here on the forum. I'd personally rather buy a genuine new one for $200 or less than a "regular decent one....for $300-500", as someone said above.

[mtgjr]

Originally Posted by lhawli

Paper work or not, the serial number is on the watch and the movement and from there they can tell what original insert came with the watch.

Personally here in NA (Canada for me) I was not aware you could take a black insert 16710 and buy a Pepsi or Coke straight up from Rolex!

I guess we all learn something new.


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The serial number is on the movement? Since when?

[lhawli]

Originally Posted by mtgjr

The serial number is on the movement? Since when?

Yes they do on the baseplate of the movement. Although it is interchangeable it cannot be used as the be it be all, but you can bet it is on the original built papers when they come out of the factory.




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[WS9D]

Originally Posted by lhawli

I always respect your opinion :)

But if it was meant to be interchangeable then why is the Pepsi and Coke selling at a premium much higher the the classic black if all you had to do was walk into a Rolex AD and slap a Pepsi for $75?

Something needs to be said about the original serials that came with a Pepsi no?


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I'd trust padi on this one.

There are a lot of people who don't live near an AD, don't want to drive to an AD, or have had an AD tell them know. It's easier to pay the premium for some people than to do the leg work. Some people people pay crazy prices for Daytona as They don't want to wait. Time is worth more than their money. I believe the only people who can look it up by serial is Rolex.

[mmbiker]

So the serial on a 5 digit GMT is not shown on the exterior compare to the 6 digit GMT?


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[MLF]

Not a GMT as above but I had a black generic insert from eBay £10 worth in my 16610Lv 50th and put it into the local Glasgow AD and they replaced it for a new black one for £60

[Nikita70]

Originally Posted by mmbiker

So the serial on a 5 digit GMT is not shown on the exterior compare to the 6 digit GMT?


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Yes the serial number is on the exterior of a 5 digit GMT, it's located behind the end link of the bracelet, between the lugs.

[Runnin' Rebel]

What about the allusive albino 6542 !! I know it's not 16710 but it's out there with the white dial and my GMT 16710 came with black bezel and now have Coke on it. I have 2-3 Pepsi inserts but I dislike Pepsi products ..so haven't changed it to red/blue

[Likestheshiny]

But if it was meant to be interchangeable then why is the Pepsi and Coke selling at a premium much higher the the classic black if all you had to do was walk into a Rolex AD and slap a Pepsi for $75?

1) Rolex will take your original insert, so you won't be able to casually switch back and forth. They also do the switch themselves, which requires getting the watch to them.
2) Certain period-specific inserts or ones with nice fading are worth more. Rolex will give you the newest design.

[Tools]

There is a lot of misinformation going on here...

You cannot tell, based on a serial number, what insert a 16710 came with. It's likely that Rolex knows the build of a particular serial number, but they may not share that with you.

You can change the insert on a 16710 to any of the three styles that came on the 16710, and most of the time, the RSC will do that for you for 75 bucks.

Yes, on some editions in the US the paperwork will tell you what insert came from the factory, suffix N-Black; A-Black/Red; B-Blue/Red. It still doesn't matter, you can change to any one you want.

The 16760 only came with a Black/Red insert and so that is the only one that RSC will put on that watch, however, all the others will fit.

Both the watch case and the movement have their own, separate, serial numbers. Only Rolex knows which movement was put in which case

[lhawli]

Originally Posted by Tools

There is a lot of misinformation going on here...



You cannot tell, based on a serial number, what insert a 16710 came with. It's likely that Rolex knows the build of a particular serial number, but they may not share that with you.



You can change the insert on a 16710 to any of the three styles that came on the 16710, and most of the time, the RSC will do that for you for 75 bucks.



Yes, on some editions in the US the paperwork will tell you what insert came from the factory, suffix N-Black; A-Black/Red; B-Blue/Red. It still doesn't matter, you can change to any one you want.



The 16760 only came with a Black/Red insert and so that is the only one that RSC will put on that watch, however, all the others will fit.



Both the watch case and the movement have their own, separate, serial numbers. Only Rolex knows which movement was put in which case

I knew it was a matter of time before you chimed in on this thread!

I'm gonna be on the hunt for a black bezel version and source the Pepsi and Coke insert to mix it up rather than paying a premium to get a Pepsi.

I learned a lot from this thread and now wonder how many Pepsi/Coke GMT on the market are altered from a black insert

Cheers


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[mtgjr]

Yes, A LOT of misinformation in this thread.

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by lhawli

I always respect your opinion :)

But if it was meant to be interchangeable then why is the Pepsi and Coke selling at a premium much higher the the classic black if all you had to do was walk into a Rolex AD and slap a Pepsi for $75?

Something needs to be said about the original serials that came with a Pepsi no?

If you're buying an LN (black) at an LN price you're in good shape. The "classic", original color for the GMT Master is the Pepsi and this drives the prices up on GMT Masters and Master IIs. For a 16710 on U.S. paperwork this was indicated with a letter "B" after the model reference 16710 (A = Coke). Papers from everywhere else don't. As others have said, if you want additional inserts they are out there.

Don't count on obtaining a Pepsi insert for your LN directly from an RSC. They know what the watch originally came with and since their job is restoring a watch to it's original state, that's what they'll sell you. It's the inability to simply go to Rolex and buy inserts of varying colors at will that drives the higher prices for them in the open market.

Could you obtain a Pepsi insert some other way, throw it on what is originally an LN and ask a higher price when selling? Sure, you can ask anything. It's partly justified as recovering your cost for the additional insert included as an option. Would you be able to now sell the watch as a "Pepsi" for a Pepsi price? That depends....

Many potential buyers (myself included), want to know how it came out of the factory as it influences the decision to purchase or how much to offer. Knowing the insert swap-ability feature of the 16710, with no paperwork (or has non-US paperwork) that indicates how it was originally sold I always make it clear that a born-Pepsi is what I'm after and that I'm a trust-but-verify type of person. If no return-policy/guarantee is forthcoming on the bezel insert aspect of the watch as well, I'll give it a pass completely. While I may pay for an LN + cost of an additional Pepsi bezel offered as an option, I'm not going to pay original Pepsi price for an LN with a Pepsi bezel option.

In Hong Kong on 2 occasions I've purchased Pepsi 16710s (1 with non-US paperwork, another without any) that turned out to originally be LNs, something quickly revealed by the HK RSC when I'd taken them in for a post-buy inspection and servicing if needed. Since I only buy from sellers who offer a long-period, 100% guarantee return policy (pretty standard in HK with brick and mortar shop re-sellers) I simply told RSC not to service, and returned the watches on the basis I wanted an original Pepsi manufacture, which they knew beforehand. Since the RSC will only service if they return the watch to it's original state this would've meant replacing the Pepsi inserts with LNs. As to whether they would have allowed me to keep the Pepsi inserts along with having me buy new LN inserts was, for me, a moot point.

That's not to say the sellers were attempting some slight of hand. They buy watches with and without paperwork as well, and unless the paperwork is from the US (rare in HK) they honestly have no way of knowing how they came from the factory unless taken to the RSC. Many 16710s have been around long enough to have changed hands many times and gone through many insert swaps by previous owners. I observed the same 2 returned watches later being re-advertized with both Pepsi and LN inserts, one of which stated in the ad that the watch was originally LN. That's honest re-selling in my book, and with long-term, money-back guarantees and an RSC literally down the street any buyer can walk into shortly after purchasing like I do with a pre-worn, I give them every benefit of the doubt.

So in response to your question re value, that depends on the buyer. As a collecting quirk I happen to care how the watch came out of the factory and won't spend Pepsi money on an LN, and I'm not alone. With an original Pepsi, I know I can get Pepsi bezels replaced by RSCs as low cost parts. Many others (possibly more) however, couldn't care less about originality and there's no good reason for me to tell them they're wrong because the great thing about the 16710 is the ability to swap them around. As long as it goes to an RSC with the original insert swapped-in, there's no hiccups.

[strafer_kid]

One of the great aspects of the GMT - bezel insert choices!

[Mezz72]

frankly, don't see what all the fuss is about. get all 3 inserts and you solve all the problems.



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[mmbiker]

I think i hit a nerve asking the question....

How hard is it to change the bezel myself? Or not worth the risk?

[Farley Grudge]

Originally Posted by Tools

There is a lot of misinformation going on here...

You cannot tell, based on a serial number, what insert a 16710 came with. It's likely that Rolex knows the build of a particular serial number, but they may not share that with you.

You can change the insert on a 16710 to any of the three styles that came on the 16710, and most of the time, the RSC will do that for you for 75 bucks.

Yes, on some editions in the US the paperwork will tell you what insert came from the factory, suffix N-Black; A-Black/Red; B-Blue/Red. It still doesn't matter, you can change to any one you want.

The 16760 only came with a Black/Red insert and so that is the only one that RSC will put on that watch, however, all the others will fit.

Both the watch case and the movement have their own, separate, serial numbers. Only Rolex knows which movement was put in which case

I just had my 16710 repaired. I took it in with the Pepsi bezel insert and they called me and stated that Rolex would only sell them a black bezel insert since that is what the watch came with. The watch wasn't bought from the AD that repaired it and I never told them I had added the Pepsi insert so they knew somehow.