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Old 4 September 2021, 03:27 AM   #1
Jmaster
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Go grey vs AD?

Hi all,

Iím a newbie and looking to get my first Patek. I thinking of getting a 5396G, which is available at multiple the ADs. However, while checking the grey dealers, I found that some of them have the same watch ďunwornĒ at more than 10% discount, plus if I buy out of State maybe save another 9% tax. My AD said that they canít provide any discount. I know the grey ďunwornĒ is not necessarily really new like you get at an AD, but how would you justify 20% higher price for a watch? Any opinion are welcome.
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Old 4 September 2021, 03:40 AM   #2
jon_jon
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If you have tried on the watch and you like the watch and made your decision to buy it, there is nothing wrong with price shopping. You can call other ADs outside your area to check on inventory and if they are willing to offer a discount. Unless you are set on getting it from your local AD and starting a relationship to get more popular watches in the future, I would shop other ADs before going gray if the price difference is only 10%.
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Old 4 September 2021, 03:40 AM   #3
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Hi all,

Iím a newbie and looking to get my first Patek. I thinking of getting a 5396G, which is available at multiple the ADs. However, while checking the grey dealers, I found that some of them have the same watch ďunwornĒ at more than 10% discount, plus if I buy out of State maybe save another 9% tax. My AD said that they canít provide any discount. I know the grey ďunwornĒ is not necessarily really new like you get at an AD, but how would you justify 20% higher price for a watch? Any opinion are welcome.

It all depends if you have a Nautilus or Aquanaut on your wishlist. If you want to get one of the hot pieces, it will be good to build a relationship with the AD but if it is only one or two pieces which you are interested, I would go grey.

I started the reverse way thinking that I only wanted a 5711 and nothing else. So I went grey with the 5711 but now have a good relationship with an AD and buying other pieces other than the hot pieces.
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Old 4 September 2021, 04:10 AM   #4
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I’ve given a lot of thought to this, and in my opinion, I think it is best to go with an AD. May just be paranoia, but the chain of title to your watch is MUCH shorter if you buy from an AD. With a grey market seller, you are buying the watch from the grey market seller, a third party, who likely acquired the watch from the original buyer/flipper, a second third party, who acquired the watch from an AD. (Unless the chain of title is longer, ie, the grey market seller may be acquiring from another grey market seller, etc.). Each link in the chain increases the likelihood that something is amiss - was there some polishing done? Is it really new? When was it made? What is its history? Is it real? Ultimately, you are spending a lot of money and I am not sure a 10% discount is worth it. This is a different issue if you are seeking the 5711 or some nearly unattainable watch.

Finally, at the end of the day, you may think this is your last watch… but that is often what I have thought with nearly every watch I have purchased. Also nice to develop a relationship with an AD.
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Old 4 September 2021, 05:16 AM   #5
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If you have tried on the watch and you like the watch and made your decision to buy it, there is nothing wrong with price shopping. You can call other ADs outside your area to check on inventory and if they are willing to offer a discount. Unless you are set on getting it from your local AD and starting a relationship to get more popular watches in the future, I would shop other ADs before going gray if the price difference is only 10%.
+1. I completely agree, check around to see what you can find that will also help influence your decision.
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Old 4 September 2021, 05:18 AM   #6
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Iíve given a lot of thought to this, and in my opinion, I think it is best to go with an AD. May just be paranoia, but the chain of title to your watch is MUCH shorter if you buy from an AD. With a grey market seller, you are buying the watch from the grey market seller, a third party, who likely acquired the watch from the original buyer/flipper, a second third party, who acquired the watch from an AD. (Unless the chain of title is longer, ie, the grey market seller may be acquiring from another grey market seller, etc.). Each link in the chain increases the likelihood that something is amiss - was there some polishing done? Is it really new? When was it made? What is its history? Is it real? Ultimately, you are spending a lot of money and I am not sure a 10% discount is worth it. This is a different issue if you are seeking the 5711 or some nearly unattainable watch.

Finally, at the end of the day, you may think this is your last watchÖ but that is often what I have thought with nearly every watch I have purchased. Also nice to develop a relationship with an AD.
10% discount is not worth going grey for me, especially if you can build a relationship with an AD. Shop around but pick one locally that you can keep in touch easily. I am sure at some point you will want a watch that is harder to get and this will help.
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Old 4 September 2021, 05:18 AM   #7
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I agree with everything that has been stated. I bought my 5396 in July and paid MSRP from an AD. Since this was an heirloom piece to pass to my son, it was important to have my name on the papers. Spending this much money, I also wanted peace of mind regarding authenticity. For these reasons, an $8-10k savings was not worth it for me to go grey.

Btw, which 5396 are you looking to get? It truly is a fantastic watch!




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Old 4 September 2021, 07:34 AM   #8
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I will not buy from grey market.
Always AD. Relationship is everything in luxury market.
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Old 4 September 2021, 10:16 AM   #9
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For me, if I wanted to establish a relationship with an AD with a view to purchasing other hard to get pieces in the future, I'd go retail.

But 20% extra on that particular model is a not an inconsiderable amount of money.
So I would go grey otherwise.

I'm also not fussed about having my name on the papers. You don't wear the papers on your wrist.

I purchased my 5525R unworn from a grey at a discount.
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Old 4 September 2021, 10:48 AM   #10
Jmaster
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Thanks everyone for your input. Still a lot to think about. I didn’t realize they put your name on the Certificate of Origin so that’s definitely a consideration. Do they actually write it on the certificate and record it with Patek? My other watches (Rolex, Tudor and other) don’t have that so I didn’t think about this.

rpl77 - that’s a super nice dial. I thought it’s discontinued as it eas the original dial back when they announced this model. Surprise to hear that you just bought that. I’m looking at the white dial for a clean look, but you picture got me thinking.

I’ll definitely take everyone’s advice and call around. Cheers,
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Old 4 September 2021, 10:55 AM   #11
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Thanks everyone for your input. Still a lot to think about. I didnít realize they put your name on the Certificate of Origin so thatís definitely a consideration. Do they actually write it on the certificate and record it with Patek? My other watches (Rolex, Tudor and other) donít have that so I didnít think about this.

rpl77 - thatís a super nice dial. I thought itís discontinued as it eas the original dial back when they announced this model. Surprise to hear that you just bought that. Iím looking at the white dial for a clean look, but you picture got me thinking.

Iíll definitely take everyoneís advice and call around. Cheers,

Yes. Your name as the first owner is recorded.
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Old 4 September 2021, 11:01 AM   #12
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Like others, Iíd vote for AD. Too many stories of buyers remorse for me to consider grey.

I love the 5396gÖgreat choice!


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Old 4 September 2021, 01:08 PM   #13
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If you buy from your local AD, itís worth checking to see if theyíd ship out of state to save you the 9%. Theyíll definitely to which states they can ship without tax and comply with NEXUS.
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Old 4 September 2021, 01:54 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Jmaster View Post
Thanks everyone for your input. Still a lot to think about. I didnít realize they put your name on the Certificate of Origin so thatís definitely a consideration. Do they actually write it on the certificate and record it with Patek? My other watches (Rolex, Tudor and other) donít have that so I didnít think about this.

rpl77 - thatís a super nice dial. I thought itís discontinued as it eas the original dial back when they announced this model. Surprise to hear that you just bought that. Iím looking at the white dial for a clean look, but you picture got me thinking.

Iíll definitely take everyoneís advice and call around. Cheers,

Thanks! The 5396 wasnít even on my radar. We were in Maui in July and was considering the 5227. The SA had me try on the 5396, and I was sold. You are right that the slate dial was discontinued, and so finding this piece at another AD would have been extremely difficult, likely impossible.

Hopefully your hunt for the white dial at an AD wonít be so challenging. Good luck, and post pics when you take the plunge!


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Old 4 September 2021, 03:47 PM   #15
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Loads of extremely reputable grey and used dealers to buy from. IMO worth the savings. Watchbox isn’t about to sell you a fake lol ��
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Old 5 September 2021, 07:37 AM   #16
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I agree with what most people said, definitely go with an AD and not with grey dealer on such a substantial purchase.
Having your name printed on the certificate of origin is extremely important as a patek owner. And yes, you will get to register your name with Patek or the AD will do that for you.
On the other hand, I would also push hard for a discount or shop around for other ADs. The 5396 is not a high demand/waiting list piece. And if push comes to shove Iím sure the SA will give you a discount.


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Old 5 September 2021, 07:07 PM   #17
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Finally, at the end of the day, you may think this is your last watchÖ but that is often what I have thought with nearly every watch I have purchased. .
LOL Too true!
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Old 6 September 2021, 06:02 AM   #18
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Sorry to muddy the waters
If a PP AD has a preowned and a new 5396 in stock for example
The preowned is a 20% discount
Which is the best option?
Is having your name on the papers worth 20%
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Old 6 September 2021, 06:21 AM   #19
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Sorry to muddy the waters
If a PP AD has a preowned and a new 5396 in stock for example
The preowned is a 20% discount
Which is the best option?
Is having your name on the papers worth 20%

For me just breaking the seal is worth that for me. I think I am worthy of treating myself to a new watch. Donít need a watch with someone DNA on it


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Old 6 September 2021, 07:01 AM   #20
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Iíve given a lot of thought to this, and in my opinion, I think it is best to go with an AD. May just be paranoia, but the chain of title to your watch is MUCH shorter if you buy from an AD. With a grey market seller, you are buying the watch from the grey market seller, a third party, who likely acquired the watch from the original buyer/flipper, a second third party, who acquired the watch from an AD. (Unless the chain of title is longer, ie, the grey market seller may be acquiring from another grey market seller, etc.). Each link in the chain increases the likelihood that something is amiss - was there some polishing done? Is it really new? When was it made? What is its history? Is it real? Ultimately, you are spending a lot of money and I am not sure a 10% discount is worth it. This is a different issue if you are seeking the 5711 or some nearly unattainable watch.

Finally, at the end of the day, you may think this is your last watchÖ but that is often what I have thought with nearly every watch I have purchased. Also nice to develop a relationship with an AD.
This is pretty good analysis. I'd say this, but if negotiate another 10% from gray, then I'd be tempted to go gray.
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Old 23 September 2021, 09:02 AM   #21
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Thanks everyone for the inputs.

After some thoughts, I’ve decided to buy from an AD, ultimately because the difference in costs are quite small when said and done. It’s totally worthwhile to have my name as the owner and start a relationship with the AD. However, I have decided to go with a 5146G-010 as it fits me better than the 5396 which has a little lug overhang. I’ll put out an incoming once I get the watch.
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Old 25 September 2021, 05:53 PM   #22
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Walk in directly to AD ( never Grey fro PP ),
Enjoy the exclusive name/living address on PP certificate and recorded data in Swiss PP data system.
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Old 25 September 2021, 07:18 PM   #23
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Thanks everyone for the inputs.

After some thoughts, Iíve decided to buy from an AD, ultimately because the difference in costs are quite small when said and done. Itís totally worthwhile to have my name as the owner and start a relationship with the AD. However, I have decided to go with a 5146G-010 as it fits me better than the 5396 which has a little lug overhang. Iíll put out an incoming once I get the watch.
Good choice! You were lucky to find one as this model was discontinued earlier this year.
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Old 26 September 2021, 07:11 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Jmaster View Post
Thanks everyone for the inputs.

After some thoughts, Iíve decided to buy from an AD, ultimately because the difference in costs are quite small when said and done. Itís totally worthwhile to have my name as the owner and start a relationship with the AD. However, I have decided to go with a 5146G-010 as it fits me better than the 5396 which has a little lug overhang. Iíll put out an incoming once I get the watch.

Good choice, you wonít regret going AD.
And for sure you wonít regret going with the 5146G


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Old 26 September 2021, 04:27 PM   #25
CK9366
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Only AD . No grey !!
Walk in AD aggressively , talk and negotiate the models to them you wanted .
Build the relationship !
Happy that PP make your personal details information to certificate and Swiss Pp data Center
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Old 26 September 2021, 05:19 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by CK9366 View Post
Only AD . No grey !!
Walk in AD aggressively , talk and negotiate the models to them you wanted .
Build the relationship !
Happy that PP make your personal details information to certificate and Swiss Pp data Center
Yes, Iím sure that approach will work.

Ed,

If I was only interested in one Patek then I would find that model at the best price new or used.
If I wanted to buy other more difficult to source Patek models down the track then establishing a history with an AD would be the way.

E.
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Old 27 September 2021, 08:39 AM   #27
Jmaster
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Good choice! You were lucky to find one as this model was discontinued earlier this year.
Thanks. I was super luck with my AD as they actually had 2 - one in white dial and one in slate. I end up picking the slate for a more modern look.



Quote:
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Good choice, you won’t regret going AD.
And for sure you won’t regret going with the 5146G


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Thanks. I love the 5146 complication. So balanced.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CK9366 View Post
Only AD . No grey !!
Walk in AD aggressively , talk and negotiate the models to them you wanted .
Build the relationship !
Happy that PP make your personal details information to certificate and Swiss Pp data Center
I did negotiate and got a small discount and save the sales tax. It net out almost the same as a grey price with the exact configuration I want, but of course I could have save the tax with the grey too.



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Yes, I’m sure that approach will work.

Ed,

If I was only interested in one Patek then I would find that model at the best price new or used.
If I wanted to buy other more difficult to source Patek models down the track then establishing a history with an AD would be the way.

E.
True, if I’m one and done, but I’m not sure about that. Plus the slate dial 5146 I wanted generally commanded a higher price at greys then other configuration and I really want a brand new watch so no “slightly used” discount. The AD already asked me what watch I want next but I can wait a little.
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Old 27 September 2021, 09:41 AM   #28
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For ten percent, I would buy from an AD to obtain the watch new, get in the PP system and establish a relationship with the AD. Never know, you may want another watch.
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Old 27 September 2021, 09:45 AM   #29
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walk in directly to ad ( never grey fro pp ),
enjoy the exclusive name/living address on pp certificate and recorded data in swiss pp data system.
x2
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Old 13 October 2021, 11:53 PM   #30
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JMaster, I sent you a PM as I'm thinking along the same lines and I'm also in the Bay Area.

Thanks
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