Can Anyone here Identify this Rolex Submariner?

[SANDIEGO]

Hello, I bought a Rolex Submariner used from someone in the early 1980s. It has on the face "ROTOR SELFWINDING"which I have not seen on any other Rolex Submariners. It has 5513 stamped on the case, Serial number 2015759.
Does anybody have any idea why I cannot find any other Rolex's with this on the face? I have had it to a jewelers and they verified it is a genuine Rolex Submariner. Photo of watch attached.

Any help here appreciated. Thanks..

[matthew_r]

I’m sorry, I am no expert but the watch appears to be fake or at least had its dial repainted.

[Eric88]

Not good.

[vintagewatch]

The 2 million serial number would indicate production around 1970. Automatic Tudor watches at this time often had "Rotor Self Winding" on the dial (including the Submariner). If the watch is genuine my guess is that at some point the dial was replaced or refinished with the text resembling the Tudor Submariner dial for some reason (albeit strange).

[alwayshere]

we need better pictures. Can you post pictures of the back of he watch. A close up of the dial and of the crown.

I suspect it could be a genuine Rolex but the dial has been repainted or edited? (as others have pointed out). We need closer pictures to better assess. It is a strange one as the bezel insert appears to be a later service and crown looks like a 703 so its gone through some servicing in the past - not sure how the dial got through - perhaps via a independent watchmaker?

Also, the bracelet could be genuine? but from a much smaller sized watch.

[Scaramanga74]

Originally Posted by SANDIEGO

Hello, I bought a Rolex Submariner used from someone in the early 1980s. It has on the face "ROTOR SELFWINDING"which I have not seen on any other Rolex Submariners. It has 5513 stamped on the case, Serial number 2015759.
Does anybody have any idea why I cannot find any other Rolex's with this on the face? I have had it to a jewelers and they verified it is a genuine Rolex Submariner. Photo of watch attached.

Any help here appreciated. Thanks..

Definitely a repainted dial. Did the jewelers open it to look at the movement?

Pictures of the case back please!

[Mark020]

Poor redial. Rest may be legit

[joli160]

Dial is wrong. I would never ask a jeweler to authenticate a Rolex.

[MILGAUSS88]

Bracelet is the wrong size as well.
Looks like it was put together from parts.

[SANDIEGO]

Originally Posted by vintagewatch

The 2 million serial number would indicate production around 1970. Automatic Tudor watches at this time often had "Rotor Self Winding" on the dial (including the Submariner). If the watch is genuine my guess is that at some point the dial was replaced or refinished with the text resembling the Tudor Submariner dial for some reason (albeit strange).

Thanks for the info. When the watch was received by me in a deal, The dial face was ruined, Rotating Bezel gone, winding crown gone. I had taken it to a jeweler in the early 80's who restored/replaced it. So, the watch is not worth much now?

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by SANDIEGO

Thanks for the info. When the watch was received by me in a deal, The dial face was ruined, Rotating Bezel gone, winding crown gone. I had taken it to a jeweler in the early 80's who restored/replaced it. So, the watch is not worth much now?

your story is now changing a little bit... why didn't you just start off the post with that information instead of making it sound like you bought the watch in the condition as pictured.

I mean you clearly know what has and hasn't been done to the watch so you already know your answer....

[SANDIEGO]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

we need better pictures. Can you post pictures of the back of he watch. A close up of the dial and of the crown.

I suspect it could be a genuine Rolex but the dial has been repainted or edited? (as others have pointed out). We need closer pictures to better assess. It is a strange one as the bezel insert appears to be a later service and crown looks like a 703 so its gone through some servicing in the past - not sure how the dial got through - perhaps via a independent watchmaker?

Also, the bracelet could be genuine? but from a much smaller sized watch.

Thanks, see my response to work that has been done on it in the past below message.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by SANDIEGO

Thanks for the info. When the watch was received by me in a deal, The dial face was ruined, Rotating Bezel gone, winding crown gone. I had taken it to a jeweler in the early 80's who restored/replaced it. So, the watch is not worth much now?

Now the story is making more sense. The watch still has some value, but not nearly as much as if the dial and bezel insert were original. The bracelet end-links also don't appear to fit properly, so perhaps the bracelet has been replaced with an incorrect one.

[SANDIEGO]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

your story is now changing a little bit... why didn't you just start off the post with that information instead of making it sound like you bought the watch in the condition as pictured.

I mean you clearly know what has and hasn't been done to the watch so you already know your answer....

That's not true. I assumed the watch face, would have been replaced/redone or whatever with the exact same one that belonged on it. Why it would have been changed to something else (if it has) is a puzzle as to why that was done.

[SANDIEGO]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Now the story is making more sense. The watch still has some value, but not nearly as much as if the dial and bezel insert were original. The bracelet end-links also don't appear to fit properly, so perhaps the bracelet has been replaced with an incorrect one.

Okay I do appreciate the response. So maybe worth couple thousand or do you maybe have a ballpark number just so I sort of know it's value?

[harry in montreal]

Like maybe $1,000. Or maybe more. Or Possibly less.
You need to take a few more photos. It looks like a fake with a possibility that it has some legit parts

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by SANDIEGO

Okay I do appreciate the response. So maybe worth couple thousand or do you maybe have a ballpark number just so I sort of know it's value?

As Harry mentioned, the approximate value will depend on what parts are legit. We really can't be precise about that based on the photos.

[SANDIEGO]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

Like maybe $1,000. Or maybe more. Or Possibly less.
You need to take a few more photos. It looks like a fake with a possibility that it has some legit parts

The "Jeweler" I referred to Actually was the watchmaker who did the replacement of the face. He told me it was in very good shape, so I assume (I know) he would know a fake. Also, again this was in early 1980's and I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong, there were any replicas that early that would fool a watchmaker. Would a picture of the back of the case give any clues? I really don't want to open it as it has always worked perfect and I'm not a watchmaker. Thank you for your time....

[joli160]

Originally Posted by joli160

Dial is wrong. I would never ask a jeweler to authenticate a Rolex.

Nor have them work on it

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by SANDIEGO

The "Jeweler" I referred to Actually was the watchmaker who did the replacement of the face. He told me it was in very good shape, so I assume (I know) he would know a fake. Also, again this was in early 1980's and I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong, there were any replicas that early that would fool a watchmaker. Would a picture of the back of the case give any clues? I really don't want to open it as it has always worked perfect and I'm not a watchmaker. Thank you for your time....

If he would know a fake, why would he replace a damaged dial with with one that doesn’t exist in any world? It’s a mish-mash of a Rolex dial and a Tudor dial. In other words, I’m not sure how he can be considered unable to be fooled by a replica when he would put that on a watch.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

If he would know a fake, why would he replace a damaged dial with with one that doesn’t exist in any world? It’s a mish-mash of a Rolex dial and a Tudor dial. In other words, I’m not sure how he can be considered unable to be fooled by a replica when he would put that on a watch.

maybe i'm just cynical but we hear these stories all the time here.

insert new member asking about a watch with questionable parts. When probe a bit - oh yeah, forgot to tell you, maybe this was replaced by this person 60 moons ago. btw, how much is it worth?

i'll leave you guys to this thread...

[SANDIEGO]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

If he would know a fake, why would he replace a damaged dial with with one that doesn’t exist in any world? It’s a mish-mash of a Rolex dial and a Tudor dial. In other words, I’m not sure how he can be considered unable to be fooled by a replica when he would put that on a watch.

I will probably just can it. Too much hassle to try to sell.... Thanks for your time anyway..

[indianmachine]

if it's in working order I'd just enjoy as is

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

...why would he replace a damaged dial with with one that doesn’t exist in any world?

This. Why just make up your own text and write it on the dial? At least get the words right...

[harry in montreal]

Turn the watch over. Take a photo. Take one of the side with the winding crown. From what we see much of the watch is questionable. But it’s up to you to proceed. They have faked Rolexes for decades. Nyc canal street was built on fake Rolexes, cannolis and rice sticks with beef and black bean sauce !

[motoikkyu]

With respect to all, why not suggest that the watch be sent to one of our esteemed independent houses. Wouldn't they be able to pull it apart and determine what's real and what's, shall we say, aftermarket? It could very well be that this is a worthy restoration project. If a $4k dial and an $1100 bezel will yield a $13k watch, that might still be worth doing, no?

[Chris]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

maybe i'm just cynical but we hear these stories all the time here.

insert new member asking about a watch with questionable parts. When probe a bit - oh yeah, forgot to tell you, maybe this was replaced by this person 60 moons ago. btw, how much is it worth?

i'll leave you guys to this thread...

All seems a bit odd to me a sleeping member becomes active after 10 years with a watch hes owned for 40yrs.

[CaveDweller]

"Shit can it" means make me an offer by PM - so now he has two or more of you on the hook - lol

Aplogies if i'm wrong, but this whole set-up is smelling .....

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by CaveDweller

"Shit can it" means make me an offer by PM - so now he has two or more of you on the hook - lol

Aplogies if i'm wrong, but this whole set-up is smelling .....

[SANDIEGO]

Originally Posted by CaveDweller

"Shit can it" means make me an offer by PM - so now he has two or more of you on the hook - lol

Aplogies if i'm wrong, but this whole set-up is smelling .....

All I did was ask legitimate questions about a watch I have. And know nothing about. (1) Anyone have any information on it (2) Does anybody know how much it might be worth. I cannot believe how rude some of the responders are. This is the most rude, accusing, forums I have ever been on. Sorry to apparently have hurt some peoples feelings or something.