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Old 16 January 2019, 12:35 AM   #91
RolexZen
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Mr. Bennahmias's reaction to the bad publicities about Code 11:59

You’re probably right if they just recently did a remodel of the space. Maybe the lack of inventory is due to the line and allocation changes currently underway. Let us know how things look in a couple months!

As I mentioned, I’ll be traveling to Singapore and Hong Kong in February. Will be interesting to visit the Boutiques and AP House. Will travel through Seoul as well, but may not have time for watch shopping.
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Old 16 January 2019, 01:22 AM   #92
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Revolution at least confronted and subtly grilled Bennahmias about Code11.59, while Hodinkee . . . well.


Its called “capture,” and I’ve been seeing it more and more in Hodinkee. When was the last time you read an article that was critical of a high end manufacture, or any manufacturer for that matter? The more they pander to manufacturers, which I think they do to a significant degree already, the greater the loss of independence. I understand the difficulties, but they at least need to push back and offer constructive criticisms.



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Old 16 January 2019, 01:30 AM   #93
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Its called “capture,” and I’ve been seeing it more and more in Hodinkee. When was the last time you read an article that was critical of a high end manufacture, or any manufacturer for that matter? The more they pander to manufacturers, which I think they do to a significant degree already, the greater the loss of independence. I understand the difficulties, but they at least need to push back and offer constructive criticisms.
I have to read the comments thread after each article to get any objectivity.
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Old 16 January 2019, 01:33 AM   #94
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I have to read the comments thread after each article to get any objectivity.

Me too. I feel like that’s where the balance and criticism comes in, both constructive and otherwise. It’s a shame. Hodinkee sell themselves, well perhaps once upon a time they did, as thought leaders of horology. I feel that’s long gone. They still produce some excellent articles, especially Jack, but the site rarely produces anything that looks like constructive criticism.


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Old 16 January 2019, 01:49 AM   #95
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That is exactly what I thought as well.

Revolution at least confronted and subtly grilled Bennahmias about Code11.59, while Hodinkee . . . well.

Have to agree. If I was Ben and was getting all these collabs and sponsors I probably would not where I eat either

Just being honest.
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Old 16 January 2019, 02:31 AM   #96
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Have to agree. If I was Ben and was getting all these collabs and sponsors I probably would not where I eat either

Just being honest.
Quite so. I know from their 10th Anniversary broadcast that Hodinkee states that it separates editorial decisions from revenue, by virtue of having the shop as their money maker. However, you wouldn't know it from the articles they put out. I think, like so many once-independent online industry platforms, they've become the victim of their own success. When they were independent, they built credibility through solid technical writing based on constructive criticism of trends, etc., and what works and doesn't in the industry. This attracted a wide readership inside and outside the industry, and got them access to the the great and good inside the industry. However, as they've become more successful, it's gotten increasingly difficult to constructively criticize those very people who have given them access and brought them inside. After all, the industry is a small one. It's a very difficult path to walk as we all have to eat, and they've leaned on the side of their collaborations and sponsors to the detriment of content.

I've gotten more disappointed with their lack insight into watches and industry decisions. It wont stop me reading the site, which is good for photos and superficial details of watches outside of seeing one. For example, I wanted to get their take on the AP CODE watch. There was nothing in their review until an OP asked the author if the watch review was sponsored content! That reflects poorly on Hodinkee if an OP has to ask that because he can't tell. The author (Stephen P) responded to the question, opening with, "they're incredibly well made..." followed by his thoughts. I would like to have read that in the author's article.
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Old 16 January 2019, 02:54 AM   #97
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I read Hodinkee quite a lot, but don’t recall any truly critical articles. Maybe it’s been too long. Can someone reference a really critical Hodinkee article?

And I do browse through comments for entertainment purposes, but come on, you can’t really consider these anonymous online warriors to qualitatively represent the pulse of global watch consumers. Many will comment about watches that are not marketed to them—while I have no interest in the Richard Mille Candy line, my opinions are irrelevant.

Notice that a lot of watch sites don’t even allow comments, or if they do, they heavily moderate them. That’s understandable, and probably for the best.
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Old 16 January 2019, 02:57 AM   #98
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I read Hodinkee quite a lot, but don’t recall any truly critical articles. Maybe it’s been too long. Can someone reference a really critical Hodinkee article?

And I do browse through comments for entertainment purposes, but come on, you can’t really consider these anonymous online warriors to qualitatively represent the pulse of global watch consumers. Many will comment about watches that are not marketed to them—while I have no interest in the Richard Mille Candy line, my opinions are irrelevant.

Notice that a lot of watch sites don’t even allow comments, or if they do, they heavily moderate them. That’s understandable, and probably for the best.
there is a few. I read an article once where they said they like to stay positive. Rather ignore stuff they dont like or something to that effect.

Its still not balanced because they omit something though.

Reviews/week on the wrist etc seem to be geared toward stuff they like. Launch articles though or information posts are like the news to me... dont editorialize too much because its NOT a review. I think people wrongly expect them to interject an opinion into everything even when its watch "news." Two entirely different things.
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Old 16 January 2019, 02:58 AM   #99
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[QUOTE=SBC1986;9262358][QUOTE=tyler1980;9260098]if your "customer" is <20 years old though, that means you are putting all your marbles on being trendy and thats a dangerous position to be in with a very fickle demo. There is no way i would highlight that segment no matter if they were buying my watches or not and you definitely dont cater to them.

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I agree with the comments above saying it's a risk marketing this to 19-25 year olds. I'm just beyond that age at 26, but I can say that the overlap of those in the younger demographic who like the MVMT-like minimalist aesthetic and those that can afford $20k+ is a very small one.

Agree. Taste change and mature. The difference between a 19 year old and a 30 year old is huge. I don't want to read too much into this but the fact that they think this is a big hit and everyone working at AP loves it says a lot of the corporate culture that created it!

I would guess you don't do well in this company if you stick your neck out.

Hard work and a big ambitious launch is great, but at the end of the day it is as the interview said "about how the watch looks".

It was good to see revolution push a bit while hoodinki was probably worried about their advertising revenue.
Funny you mentioned this...I was curious and checked out their Glassdoor review...take it with a grain of salt but here are some of the more stand out negative reviews I was able to find.

CON

The company is like the most beautiful family in the neighborhood, the parents are smiling, the children polite, the lawn is perfect. But, in fact, the father beats his children, cheats in his business, the mother cheats on him and the children steal to make pocket money. Grandparents know it, but prefer to be quiet to save appearances.

Cons

Very corrupted management. Top directors held total control and sell good stocks to grey market and earn themselves extra bucks in their wallet. They got rid and fired anyone who’s in their way or threatened to do so. Honest people would struggle to survive unless you become part of the corrupted group. When voiced out, you’ll end up knowing that everyone is involved in the black market.
No system of anything set in place, no benefits, nothing is written. Nothing is prepared for you even on your first day. Contracts were ready months after joined. HR and managers never clearly understand employees benefits. No clear communication, standards or guidelines within the organisation. No standard of luxury in many aspects comparing to other luxury brands. No career path, training or development. Struggling to keep good employees and to search for good employees to join. People inside have been there a long time and couldn’t keep up with the development of the industry around and they’re against of anything new and insisted on being where they were. They don’t take responsibility or try to solve problems and only blame when problems arise. Extremely disorganised in terms of finance, no rules or compliance (even there is, top managers never follow for their own benefits). My first pay was few days delayed as the finance department forgot to pay until the whole team had to voice out. No health benefits for over three months. Advanced payments had to be made on many occasions and then claimed but not all things could be claimed but nobody ever provide guidelines on it.
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Old 16 January 2019, 03:06 AM   #100
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there is a few. I read an article once where they said they like to stay positive. Rather ignore stuff they dont like or something to that effect.

Its still not balanced because they omit something though.

Reviews/week on the wrist etc seem to be geared toward stuff they like. Launch articles though or information posts are like the news to me... dont editorialize too much because its NOT a review. I think people wrongly expect them to interject an opinion into everything even when its watch "news." Two entirely different things.

Great points. Launch articles ARE news. And if I recall, they (and other blogs) typically follow-up SIHH and Basel with a summary article of what they really liked and didn’t like. They share a few opinions/takes then, though they admit there is/was A LOT to take in. Later in the year, they sometimes reflect back and realize their opinions have changed.
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Old 16 January 2019, 03:22 AM   #101
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Straightforward and direct, great interview. The CEO was not at all angry, dismayed or douchey, to use some words from earlier in this thread.

They do look a LOT better in the video.

But, I still think "Code 11:59" is a horrible name.
I couldn't agree with you more on everything you stated. He is fired up a bit but that's his personality and what makes him who he is. If he doesn't believe in their product then other people aren't going to believe it either nor even consider buying it. I do believe they should have refined the Royal Oak Offshore and make it more comfortable to wear as opposed to releasing new models but I have the ghost arriving tomorrow so obviously it isn't too bad!
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Old 16 January 2019, 09:24 AM   #102
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I was curious and checked out their Glassdoor review...take it with a grain of salt but here are some of the more stand out negative reviews I was able to find.

CON

The company is like the most beautiful family in the neighborhood, the parents are smiling, the children polite, the lawn is perfect. But, in fact, the father beats his children, cheats in his business, the mother cheats on him and the children steal to make pocket money. Grandparents know it, but prefer to be quiet to save appearances.

Cons

Very corrupted management. Top directors held total control and sell good stocks to grey market and earn themselves extra bucks in their wallet. They got rid and fired anyone who’s in their way or threatened to do so. Honest people would struggle to survive unless you become part of the corrupted group. When voiced out, you’ll end up knowing that everyone is involved in the black market.
No system of anything set in place, no benefits, nothing is written. Nothing is prepared for you even on your first day. Contracts were ready months after joined. HR and managers never clearly understand employees benefits. No clear communication, standards or guidelines within the organisation. No standard of luxury in many aspects comparing to other luxury brands. No career path, training or development. Struggling to keep good employees and to search for good employees to join. People inside have been there a long time and couldn’t keep up with the development of the industry around and they’re against of anything new and insisted on being where they were. They don’t take responsibility or try to solve problems and only blame when problems arise. Extremely disorganised in terms of finance, no rules or compliance (even there is, top managers never follow for their own benefits). My first pay was few days delayed as the finance department forgot to pay until the whole team had to voice out. No health benefits for over three months. Advanced payments had to be made on many occasions and then claimed but not all things could be claimed but nobody ever provide guidelines on it.



Whew, I didn't even imagine that a watch company management can be that bad. Managers "sell good stocks to grey market and earn themselves extra bucks in their wallet"?

I hope other companies are better.
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Old 16 January 2019, 12:53 PM   #103
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Seems AP is starting to get the message the dials are crap; and have told journalists not to take full frontal only photos of the 11.59 pieces. Here's the what the Fratello article indicated:

"Journalists are asked by AP not to take a ‘frontal’ picture of this watch without showing the case band or lugs etc. That sounds a bit like confessing something is wrong with the watch."

https://www.fratellowatches.com/sihh-2019-day-2-recap/
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Old 16 January 2019, 01:02 PM   #104
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Seems AP is starting to get the message the dials are crap; and have told journalists not to take full frontal only photos of the 11.59 pieces. Here's the what the Fratello article indicated:

"Journalists are asked by AP not to take a ‘frontal’ picture of this watch without showing the case band or lugs etc. That sounds a bit like confessing something is wrong with the watch."

https://www.fratellowatches.com/sihh-2019-day-2-recap/
It's clear Francois is doing damage control by trying to push the case design innovation & 'uniqueness' , more than showcasing the dial which is what people are supposed to be looking at. It is a timepiece overall..
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Old 16 January 2019, 01:05 PM   #105
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Mr. Bennahmias's reaction to the bad publicities about Code 11:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by malarky_hk View Post
Seems AP is starting to get the message the dials are crap; and have told journalists not to take full frontal only photos of the 11.59 pieces. Here's the what the Fratello article indicated:

"Journalists are asked by AP not to take a ‘frontal’ picture of this watch without showing the case band or lugs etc. That sounds a bit like confessing something is wrong with the watch."

https://www.fratellowatches.com/sihh-2019-day-2-recap/
Yes, this article is worth a read for those wanting a published opinion of Code 11.59. Robert-Jan Broer is honest in his thoughts. But he doesn’t say the dial is crap—just dull and below par for a brand like AP.
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Old 16 January 2019, 10:48 PM   #106
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This thing is so F’ed up I can’t see how it will revive. The name alone is so stupid even if they remade the dials how can they recover.


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Old 17 January 2019, 12:59 AM   #107
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Mic drop

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Old 17 January 2019, 01:14 AM   #108
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Mic drop

This is not entirely accurate without Francois also giving a light kiss on the cheek after he takes your money
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Old 17 January 2019, 01:14 AM   #109
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Saw that this morning...and LOL. one of his all time best. I've had so many good laughs thanks to AP this year.l
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Old 17 January 2019, 02:07 AM   #110
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Mic drop



LMFAO. I nearly choked on my drink when I saw this.

Hilarious!!!
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Old 17 January 2019, 02:10 AM   #111
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Mic drop

The Clockwork Orange range.
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Old 17 January 2019, 12:25 PM   #112
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A new interview with Mr. Bennahmias. He's actually calling it "sh*tstorm".

It's quite fun to watch this 2-part interview:

Pt. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS2S...&frags=pl%2Cwn

Pt. 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JAl...&frags=pl%2Cwn


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Old 17 January 2019, 12:43 PM   #113
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I wonder how many of us who don't like the code 1159 are those who didn't like RO/ROO. It seems the idea is to market the watch not just to young people but to those who are not in love with RO/ROO yet. I asked several friends who are not part of this forum which one they would pick and most of them actually picked code 1159 over the RO or ROO. Of course the sample size is very small but I'm starting to understand where he's coming from.
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Old 17 January 2019, 12:56 PM   #114
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Thanks for spilling my wine......

In all honesty... I don't HATE the design, but it would have been better if they released it in SS and a ~15k price tag.

Also... who the hell cares that the applied logo took 2 years to perfect lmao. That doesn't define the watch
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Old 17 January 2019, 01:00 PM   #115
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Case and movement are outstanding, but fail with the dial. Redesign likely on the horizon.
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Old 17 January 2019, 01:15 PM   #116
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A new interview with Mr. Bennahmias. He's actually calling it "sh*tstorm".

It's quite fun to watch this 2-part interview:

Pt. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS2S...&frags=pl%2Cwn

Pt. 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JAl...&frags=pl%2Cwn


Thanks for that. I really like his strategy and flat out transparency with regards to his plans for the brand. Part of me feels the name code 1159 might be worse than the dials. They can change dials but the name is the name and it’s a crappy one.
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Old 17 January 2019, 01:24 PM   #117
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A new interview with Mr. Bennahmias. He's actually calling it "sh*tstorm".



It's quite fun to watch this 2-part interview:



Pt. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS2S...&frags=pl%2Cwn



Pt. 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JAl...&frags=pl%2Cwn







Why are they awkwardly touching and kissing each other?




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Old 17 January 2019, 01:26 PM   #118
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I see the dials and all I can think of is emporio armani watches. I do like the case though
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Old 17 January 2019, 01:47 PM   #119
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Thanks for spilling my wine......



In all honesty... I don't HATE the design, but it would have been better if they released it in SS and a ~15k price tag.



Also... who the hell cares that the applied logo took 2 years to perfect lmao. That doesn't define the watch


2 yrs.. makes sense when they’re working on it part time

The values of our current AP’s just shot up!
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Old 17 January 2019, 01:48 PM   #120
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Another absolutely bizarre interview trying to save face against an avalanche of negative reception.

Seems the design was hammered out in a few hours after everyone was locked in room and couldn’t eat, drink, pee or shit until they came up with something. I reckon it all makes sense now. Hahahaha.
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