Informed opinions on this 1972 1680 Sub please

[BH13GMT]

Hi Guys

I have been looking around for a birth year 1972 1680 Sub l. I have found this one witha mark V dial in a known dealer in london. It looks super clean and in good condition. My concern is that its too clean and the hands look like new. I will be wearing this watch as a daily wearer sharing duties with my GMTc. So my point being is that I am not looking for a perfect example that will be sold on for a profit in 5 years or kept in a SDB/safe. It will be a keeper.
So being a Vintage novice, I would welcome any feedback from the gents who have the experience in appraising the 1680 sub.
Before I pull any triggers

thanks in advance

Paul

[jedly1]

looks to have been rolex serviced and made very mint ....hands, bezel insert and pearl have changed along the way along with bracelet all not end of world, and for wearing can actually be a plus and you know movt has been made top notch and great polish job ....

however if you are going to wear and beat it up a bit you may be paying for mint when you dont need to ...and purists will always find fault with the hands in the unlikely event you want/need to get out....

a lot depends on price point also

[vmm]

I'm a real neophyte and that watch looks awesome! I know you can get twinlock or triplock with this model so I would assume that's correct for 1972ish. The hands look lighter than the dial. I always assumed this meant they were replaced at service but I was recently taught that they can age differently. I really want to get one of these but would like to pick up a pepsi bezel GMT first. Good luck. I look forward to learning more from the really knowledgeable folks on the forum.

[Mark020]

Originally Posted by jedly1

a lot depends on price point also

If buying a beater I'd want to pay beater prices. This one is more or less fully restored so not a beater and color difference between hands and dial would annoy me. Being sold by a trader and having a recent RSC service I guess asking is around 9k (assuming no B&P)?

[TheDude]

The insert is thin font service and the pearl is too new also. While the bracelet is perfectly acceptable, some may prefer the folded link that originally came with the watch. Together, these items along with hands that match better could cost thousands of dollars.

It is very nice, but without knowing the asking price, it is hard to know if the goal of making a profit in 5 years is realistic.

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[spuds]

Originally Posted by BH13GMT

..So my point being is that I am not looking for a perfect example that will be sold on for a profit in 5 years or kept in a SDB/safe.

Originally Posted by TheDude

...It is very nice, but without knowing the asking price, it is hard to know if the goal of making a profit in 5 years is realistic.

I think you misread the post mate that's specifically NOT the goal....

[BH13GMT]

Originally Posted by TheDude

The insert is thin font service and the pearl is too new also. While the bracelet is perfectly acceptable, some may prefer the folded link that originally came with the watch. Together, these items along with hands that match better could cost thousands of dollars.

It is very nice, but without knowing the asking price, it is hard to know if the goal of making a profit in 5 years is realistic.

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Thanks for all the responses

dealer is asking GBP £7k without papers, box and all the bits are present, however I am keeping which ever 1680 I get. I have no intention of speculating and selling for a profit. I am sure I will be flipping the odd contemporary model in the mean time.

In the UK I cannot seem to find a fully sorted example with B&P for lest than GBP £10k

[Chris B]

Be great for you to have a birth-year red sub keeper Paul, but as others
have said, the price is the important factor when assessing this watch.


PS Have you seen this at £5825 ?

http://www.chrono24.com/en/rolex/sub...arch/index.htm

[BH13GMT]

Originally Posted by Chris B

Be great for you to have a birth-year red sub keeper Paul, but as others
have said, the price is the important factor when assessing this watch.

i have seen some more honest looking but a little tired looking watches between £5k and £7.5K no B&P. I am a little concerned about buying a Franken Sub by mistake and having to spend time and money putting the correct components back in place.

Yes the the one offered by SUBGMT is on my radar, it would involve a trip abroad as I dont want to buy from pictures alone. Ideally a UK sourced watch would be best.

[tattooedfagin]

for that sort of money i'm sure someone can sort you out an all original 1680 here on TRF, that one seems to have been polished etc & with replacement hands, pip & bezel too you'll be better off waiting.

[arttay10]

I would say that it does look well presented. Personally - keeper or not, there are too many bits been changed over time for my own personal liking. If I was going to keep a watch -with a view never to sell, then I would want to keep the very best original example I can find.
But that is only my 'humble' opinion and no matter what anyone says - It's a beautifully presented 1680 red.

For my own knowledge... would the 1680 of had a Silver date wheel originally or the white/cream one it has now?

[dddrees]

For me when you decide to go with a vintage watch you want those items that make it a vintage watch. In this case too many of those items on this watch are new.

[David AP]

I don't have a fraction of the knowledge of everyone else on here, but if I was after something vintage, I'd want something that at least had some patina on it.
This I'm afraid looks like all the traces of it's life have been removed and while the essential components are probably right, it's been stripped of what makes something vintage desirable.

A parallel I'd use is antique furniture. On the right piece, the patina of age and use is what gives something it's soul. When it's been over polished and cleaned, all that's lost and no amount of money can get it back.
Same goes for vintage cars. Makes me sad when you see something restored to within an inch of it's life. It might as well just be reproduction.


Oooo I got on a bit of a rant there, sorry.

[RolexSA]

7K GBP seems not cheap at all for such a model with all service parts . No original documents . You seem set on the birthyear model , but can you determine the age that accurately based on the serial number ?

[fusionstorm]

I know nothing about what the market in the UK is for red 1680s. But I have seen posted in various online forums other red Subs at a cheaper pricepoint that are more "original" (for better or worse, depending on one's POV).

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by spuds

I think you misread the post mate that's specifically NOT the goal....

Indeed I did read too fast. Thanks for pointing that out.

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[TheDude]

Originally Posted by arttay10

For my own knowledge... would the 1680 of had a Silver date wheel originally or the white/cream one it has now?

Oooh. Hard to tell from those pics, but it appears that it might be white. Yes the Red had a silver date wheel that is not made anymore. One of the favorite parts of my example.

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[toph]

nope looks like Luminova hands and pearl insert to me or much newer Tritium. not worth 7K GBP Imho. in time you will want to change these back to matching tritium ones i can assure you

[cruvon]

I would go with the trusted sellers or known collectors selling here mate, is far too risky buying in the open market without fallback to the seller if something is later found not to be original. Am sure most sellers can ship watches quite easily to you from overseas. You could always post pictures of a overseas watch and ask for an opinion from the forumers here before you buy. But if you absolutely have to touch and feel before you buy than buying from overseas might be a bit tough on you but well worth it IMHO.

[BH13GMT]

Originally Posted by cruvon

I would go with the trusted sellers or known collectors selling here mate, is far too risky buying in the open market without fallback to the seller if something is later found not to be original. Am sure most sellers can ship watches quite easily to you from overseas. You could always post pictures of a overseas watch and ask for an opinion from the forumers here before you buy. But if you absolutely have to touch and feel before you buy than buying from overseas might be a bit tough on you but well worth it IMHO.

Problem I have is any watch purchased outside Europe could be hit with 20% import duties unless I wear it back on a back to back flight in a weekend. I buy a bargan for £7k I have the potential hit of £1.4k in duty, all this to pay for the pot of cash assigned to the freeloaders that live in the UK (thats another discussion ) . To avoid £1.4k duty I would even consider the lengths the father of Christopher Walken's character in Pulp Fiction went to

[buffy]

Originally Posted by BH13GMT

Problem I have is any watch purchased outside Europe could be hit with 20% import duties unless I wear it back on a back to back flight in a weekend. I buy a bargan for £7k I have the potential hit of £1.4k in duty, all this to pay for the pot of cash assigned to the freeloaders that live in the UK (thats another discussion ) . To avoid £1.4k duty I would even consider the lengths the father of Christopher Walken's character in Pulp Fiction went to

The watch can always be shipped with third-party insurance.
My watch had a value of 105USD on the FedEx package :P
So I could face a heavy 25USD tax! (a sum I can live with).
But the shipping cost 150USD.

BTW I have 25%tax and import duty on that...

[red57]

I would buy the one in England if you plan on wearing it. That is very nice watch and a fresh starting point for years of enjoyment and use.

If you poke around any rolex watch forum much you will notice the "if you have it's worth $1.00
if they have it it's worth $2.00" subjective price information. Further most of the watches sold with "all original parts" have been restored; meaning that they were found with replacement parts and made correct again.

[Tcaviglioli]

Personally I believe the price is fair for a dealer in London(and I am sure there is some room to negotiate), not a steal nor a great deal but what you would expect from a dealer, if you have inspected it and you like it, swapping the lumi hands for tritium ones is not big deal, insert can be sourced as well at a cost.

Is the watch guaranteed mechanically?

[yannis]

Originally Posted by BH13GMT

To avoid £1.4k duty I would even consider the lengths the father of Christopher Walken's character in Pulp Fiction went to

[Grumpy Badger]

Originally Posted by BH13GMT

To avoid £1.4k duty I would even consider the lengths the father of Christopher Walken's character in Pulp Fiction went to

I hate to be pedantic ( ok, ok, I actually LOVE to be pedantic!) but it was the father of Bruce Willis's character and, after his death, the character of Christopher Walken himself who hid the watch in that particular way!

[BH13GMT]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Badger

I hate to be pedantic ( ok, ok, I actually LOVE to be pedantic!) but it was the father of Bruce Willis's character and, after his death, the character of Christopher Walken himself who hid the watch in that particular way!

Come to think of it, you are correct.

[tattooedfagin]

Originally Posted by BH13GMT

Problem I have is any watch purchased outside Europe could be hit with 20% import duties unless I wear it back on a back to back flight in a weekend. I buy a bargan for £7k I have the potential hit of £1.4k in duty, all this to pay for the pot of cash assigned to the freeloaders that live in the UK (thats another discussion ) . To avoid £1.4k duty I would even consider the lengths the father of Christopher Walken's character in Pulp Fiction went to

i had the very same concerns with my Red 1680 but the guy who i dealt with was fantastic

[stoner97]

WatchFinder.co.UK have a red Sub too, which although states is 40 years old, isn't far off 1972! Their pictures aren't great compared to WatchClub , but I bought my 1680 from WF with no box or papers for £4200 and use it as a daily wearer. The only thing you'll notice is the acrylic will scratch quite easily, compared to saphire crystal. Personally, I wouldn't buy from WatchClub (even though they apparently have a shop in Old Bond St) as their prices are too high. Look at their 16600 Sea Dweller at £4900. For it's age, you could get a newer one for less, and the pictures show no lug holes on a few pics, then miraculously, lug holes appear! Not very professional IMO. Good luck mate, hope you find one.

[BH13GMT]

Thanks Chris

I have emailed them (WatchFinder.co.UK) a few days ago requesting the first 3 digits of the serial so I can position its age a little better. No answer so far. Business must be good.

[TheDude]

MkV is right for 1972 so I don't see what the fuss is about. Nothing I read or saw about this watch caused me to doubt the year, but I agree - if the year is so important to you try to confirm.

I'm the same "vintage" as you ('72), but I bought a MkVI from '73. I figure it's close enough.