5711 will never available for the punters at MSRP

[321Forever]

Originally Posted by dchang81

Yea turned down a white dial at 20% off, but did pick up a 5167a a year later for the same discount. Heck it wasn't that long ago that they dropped the MSRP for the Nautilus and aquanaut.

Did the same thing in 2014. Passed on a white dial and got an Aquanaut. I think it was 22K for the white dial and 19K for the Aquanaut.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by jakemeister

Did the same thing in 2014. Passed on a white dial and got an Aquanaut. I think it was 22K for the white dial and 19K for the Aquanaut.

Paid 23 for my 5711 white and 18 for my 5167. Prices can definitely return. That wasn’t 2009 it was 2014-15.

[tng11]

Looking back at my records (caveat - might be a bit underreported given the falling Canadian Dollar):

Paid $16.3K USD for a year old 5167A in August 2017.

Paid $26.7K USD for a 4 month old 5164A in December 2017.

Never say prices can't go back.

[yoast]

Bought a 5167a in Sept 2016 for 15k usd
Bought a 5712a Dec 2016 for 26k usd

I really miss those times...

[Cesium137]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I was joking

And it was funny

[Jamhot]

If the hype dies down & the flippers get off the list, there is a better chance of getting msrp. Hype always dies down eventually.

[Bosscheto]

Let's not forget that Patek increased the price with 50% in the lat three years or so. Now is 30k CHF and it used to be 20K in 2017 if I am not mistaken. It went first to 25k and then to 30K. The Aquanaut had a softer increase to round it at 20K CHF on a bracelet.

[Calatrava r]

When the 5711 is selling at list nobody will want them. That will mean the demand has big-time tanked and will fall further from there.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

When the 5711 is selling at list nobody will want them. That will mean the demand has big-time tanked and will fall further from there.

Given the huge increases in list price in recent years I wouldn’t be surprised.

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Given the huge increases in list price in recent years I wouldn’t be surprised.

It's an interesting question, which goes far beyond the 'luxury' markets - increased prices was a natural reaction to increased demand. We saw it everywhere in the era of asset bubbles: schools, universities, homes, cars, air-travel, hotels. What happens when the tide turns? Do we see a reduction in prices - thereby undermining the perceived value, or do we see them (attempting) to hold?

My children's school has already dropped its fees by 15% after 'absolutely necessary' above (official) inflation rises for years. What is the real break-even cost of goods and services, and will we actually see them?

[gejay99]

Interesting thread I’m learning


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RussW]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

When the 5711 is selling at list nobody will want them. That will mean the demand has big-time tanked and will fall further from there.

I’ll take a 5711 at list from an AD no matter what the secondary market is doing

You’re right though, the appeal for many is how much they are worth above rrp. If demand were to tank though, that may give Thierry the perfect opportunity to discontinue the 5711 without thoroughly upsetting everyone. Now that would be interesting.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Cesium137

And it was funny

[Murcielagoboy2]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

When the 5711 is selling at list nobody will want them. That will mean the demand has big-time tanked and will fall further from there.

TOTALLY agree with the first sentence.

Still won’t be easy to get though. Back in 2017 when I got mine, it was one of two received by the AD that year and I’d mentioned it in passing to put me on the list over a year earlier.
I still remember when 5712s languished in windows and 5980/1r’s were available with a discount. Only 4 years ago!

[kneedeep]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

TOTALLY agree with the first sentence.

Still won’t be easy to get though. Back in 2017 when I got mine, it was one of two received by the AD that year and I’d mentioned it in passing to put me on the list over a year earlier.
I still remember when 5712s languished in windows and 5980/1r’s were available with a discount. Only 4 years ago!

I remember as well. Seems to me TS is betting the company on limiting the now popular highly in demand sport models in order to force the sale of the now dog models. To me it's a strategy of not changing the production mix to give people what they want now in the hopes that times will change and people move away from sport watches back to the dress and complicated lines. I see PP as many things, most good, but definitely not able and/or wanting to be a nimble company.

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by kneedeep

I remember as well. Seems to me TS is betting the company on limiting the now popular highly in demand sport models in order to force the sale of the now dog models. To me it's a strategy of not changing the production mix to give people what they want now in the hopes that times will change and people move away from sport watches back to the dress and complicated lines. I see PP as many things, most good, but definitely not able and/or wanting to be a nimble company.

accurate... my question has always been though how long can they keep that up? ADs have a hard time moving most watches on strap and have a ton of demand for the sports watches so there has to be pressure from ADs but I suppose PP doesn't care..

[kneedeep]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

accurate... my question has always been though how long can they keep that up? ADs have a hard time moving most watches on strap and have a ton of demand for the sports watches so there has to be pressure from ADs but I suppose PP doesn't care..

Agree, Thomas, I don't think they care at all. And I think there must be some limit to how long they can do that.

[francoamerican]

I definitely agree with TS that the nautilus or aqua shouldn’t be the “centerpiece” of an idealized Patek collection. But times have changed (everyone is more casual - more so now as I don’t even shower until 30 min before the 1pm zoom meeting.) Also at $50k wholesale “opportunity cost” a 5711 has become too expensive to be a knockabout - it’s all flipped

If I were TS at this point. I would just raise the price of the nautilus to 40k, Raise the aquanaut to 23k and slowly make enough 5167 (by making less calatrava) to be the 18k second-hand entry level knock around that it should be.

[kneedeep]

Originally Posted by francoamerican

I definitely agree with TS that the nautilus or aqua shouldn’t be the “centerpiece” of an idealized Patek collection. But times have changed (everyone is more casual - more so now as I don’t even shower until 30 min before the 1pm zoom meeting.) Also at $50k wholesale “opportunity cost” a 5711 has become too expensive to be a knockabout - it’s all flipped

If I were TS at this point. I would just raise the price of the nautilus to 40k, Raise the aquanaut to 23k and slowly make enough 5167 (by making less calatrava) to be the 18k second-hand entry level knock around that it should be.

I think Aquas and Nauts should be the centerpiece now. And PP should be nimble enough to move with the market demand.

[francoamerican]

Originally Posted by kneedeep

I think Aquas and Nauts should be the centerpiece now. And PP should be nimble enough to move with the market demand.

Yes you’re probably right.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by kneedeep

I remember as well. Seems to me TS is betting the company on limiting the now popular highly in demand sport models in order to force the sale of the now dog models. To me it's a strategy of not changing the production mix to give people what they want now in the hopes that times will change and people move away from sport watches back to the dress and complicated lines. I see PP as many things, most good, but definitely not able and/or wanting to be a nimble company.

Originally Posted by kneedeep

Agree, Thomas, I don't think they care at all. And I think there must be some limit to how long they can do that.

Originally Posted by francoamerican

I definitely agree with TS that the nautilus or aqua shouldn’t be the “centerpiece” of an idealized Patek collection. But times have changed (everyone is more casual - more so now as I don’t even shower until 30 min before the 1pm zoom meeting.) Also at $50k wholesale “opportunity cost” a 5711 has become too expensive to be a knockabout - it’s all flipped

If I were TS at this point. I would just raise the price of the nautilus to 40k, Raise the aquanaut to 23k and slowly make enough 5167 (by making less calatrava) to be the 18k second-hand entry level knock around that it should be.

Originally Posted by kneedeep

I think Aquas and Nauts should be the centerpiece now. And PP should be nimble enough to move with the market demand.

Originally Posted by francoamerican

Yes you’re probably right.

There are no ‘dog’ models made by Patek!

One of the major appeals of Patek is the history and the huge range of models they make. Simply pandering to the current demand for a few sports models is a sure fire way to extinction. I for one wouldn’t buy another piece of any type from Patek if they switched strategy- I might be alone but I hope not.
Patek hasn’t grown to it’s current market position by chasing trends, contrary to what you think the vast majority of Patek income is not from SS sports pieces and long may it continue.

[kneedeep]

Originally Posted by Russell996

There are no ‘dog’ models made by Patek!

One of the major appeals of Patek is the history and the huge range of models they make. Simply pandering to the current demand for a few sports models is a sure fire way to extinction. I for one wouldn’t buy another piece of any type from Patek if they switched strategy- I might be alone but I hope not.
Patek hasn’t grown to it’s current market position by chasing trends, contrary to what you think the vast majority of Patek income is not from SS sports pieces and long may it continue.

IMHO there are "dog" models of products made by every company on the planet. Certainly not a "dog" to a certain individual but the general consensus often says so. PP not immune.

Companies that don't change with the times, are not innovative and nimble tend to wither away wondering what the hell happened all too late in the game. The mere perception of hubris and not caring about partners and customers is not a harbinger of good things. This is not exclusive to PP these days but the higher up the haute horology chain, the more pronounced and dangerous the perception. Long may it continue

[RHIII]

Originally Posted by kneedeep

IMHO there are "dog" models of products made by every company on the planet. Certainly not a "dog" to a certain individual but the general consensus often says so. PP not immune.

Companies that don't change with the times, are not innovative and nimble tend to wither away wondering what the hell happened all too late in the game. The mere perception of hubris and not caring about partners and customers is not a harbinger of good things. This is not exclusive to PP these days but the higher up the haute horology chain, the more pronounced and dangerous the perception. Long may it continue

Spot on.

Not “giving” people what they want...or even the opportunity to get - is NOT a sound business strategy. And TS basically saying just that in an interview...will make it quite interesting to see how this year plays out.

[Tan]

I got one in 2016 very close to retail, small premium, so never say never! Even though they may not get to MSRP they can go close to it and may be worth it to some to pay a small premium.

[kneedeep]

Originally Posted by RHIII

Spot on.

Not “giving” people what they want...or even the opportunity to get - is NOT a sound business strategy. And TS basically saying just that in an interview...will make it quite interesting to see how this year plays out.

I find it beyond belief that TS in interviews revels in the fact that some of his watches aimed at the younger aged market (one of them, the Aqua, advertised as such in catalogues for years) command such premiums in the resale market. Instead of making these popular watches available to introduce young WIS to the brand and bring them along within his brand, he slams the door in their faces. I can't consider that anything more than old fashioned hubris. It makes no rational business sense to me. I'd bet that several of Patek's ADs are "firing" Patek as well as getting cut themselves. Customers and ADs will take so much of this foolishness before they move on.

[RussW]

I understand the frustration in waiting for a 5711 (I’m waiting for one myself) but all these comments from people who think they know how to run Patek better than Patek themselves are frankly laughable. Patek are actually doing quite well.

[kneedeep]

Originally Posted by RussW

I understand the frustration in waiting for a 5711 (I’m waiting for one myself) but all these comments from people who think they know how to run Patek better than Patek themselves are frankly laughable. Patek are actually doing quite well.

Not waiting for an 11 so no frustration on that here. Just underwhelmed by the products recently and service times. They've made some concessions to the times by increasing case sizes, for example. And so glad, and thanks for telling us they are doing quite well from your apparent knowledge of their private business's performance.

[Bosscheto]

It is funny, I was a lot into the hype of the watch, until I saw it on my wrist. I went to the Salon and tried it on - it is a beautiful watch, but it really looks bad on my wrist. The watch is a bit too tin, way to elegant for my structure, and my wrists are not that big, but it was clearly not working. And it is not soar grapes, in the salon it was an exhibition model, I am not saying I passed on it. Have not tried the chrono though.

[francoamerican]

Originally Posted by RussW

I understand the frustration in waiting for a 5711 (I’m waiting for one myself) but all these comments from people who think they know how to run Patek better than Patek themselves are frankly laughable. Patek are actually doing quite well.

Agreed, any company doing well financially should not be criticized on an enthusiast forum. Also there is never a gap between what enthusiasts want and what is in the best interest of the company.

[kneedeep]

Originally Posted by francoamerican

Agreed, any company doing well financially should not be criticized on an enthusiast forum. Also there is never a gap between what enthusiasts want and what is in the best interest of the company.

So criticism should not be part of forum dialogue?