A Patek dilemma

[Fiery]

I've been an active member of this great forum for quite some time now, but this is the first topic I've opened about a non-Rolex watch. I'm sorry about the very long post.

I've gone through numerous watch brands and several sub-$5000 watches in the past few years. My modest collection currently includes a Breitling Colt II Quartz ("the beater"), a SS Sub-C LN ("the everyday wear"), an Omega Speedmaster MoonWatch from 1969 ("the vintage watch"), and last but certainly not least an AP Royal Oak 15300ST ("the one for special occasions"). I want to extend my collection slowly, by only getting one watch per year. I'm also determined to get only one watch per each brand I find interesting, and make sure not to add multiple similar watches to my collection. I also don't want to trade in any of my current watches to fund a next purchase, so one can consider all my current watches "keepers".

As you can see, my collection so far is geared towards sporty models. That is because despite being in my 30's and "guiding my own ship", I almost never have to wear a suit. In most cases I dress in t-shirt and jeans/shorts, just like any teenagers would But lately I've thought about "updating my style" and dressing more dressy -- I hope you know what I mean. And that opened my sights to such watches that before I didn't feel appropriate to be worn with t-shirts and training shoes...

When picking the AP Royal Oak this summer, I was torn between this watch and the Patek 5711, but went for the AP on the basis that it felt a much sportier watch, better suited to my clothing and lifestyle. Now that the 5711 may be an option for my "new me", I'm afraid it feels a bit redundant to get a 5711 and keep my Royal Oak as well. So I've started browsing the web and various forums, and educated myself on such Patek watches that before didn't really interest me. Such watches like the Annual Calendar 5146 and 5396, and the Manual Chronograph 5170. I know they aren't necesserily in the same price bracket, and I'm also not entirely sure which one would suit me best.

I love the Annual Calendars, because they would bring a very useful and interesting complication to my watch collection, and would be perfect for dressy ocassions. I especially love the 5146 in white gold with slate dial, since it is somehow closer to the sporty watches "norm" I got accustomed to. It is probably more suitable for someone like me, although I never had a chance to try one on (unfortunately we don't have a Patek AD here in Hungary).

My concern about the 5170 is that it's only available in yellow gold, and in some ways it's a bit similar to my manual chronograph (Speedmaster). And it seems a bit expensive, of course. But it also has a beautifully decorated movement that one can never get with an automatic watch I guess the 5170 would be perfect with a three-piece, but I'm not sure how would it wear with a bit more formal wear, e.g. a casual shirt.

Apart from the usual recommendation of "visit an AD and try them all on", what would you recommend to a "Patek rookie" guy like me? What would you feel would suit me best? Are there any other watches I should consider from the Patek lineup? Please bear in mind that I'm cursed with a skinny wrist (6.3 inches), hence even a 41mm DJ II feels a bit too large on me when it comes to dressy watches...

Also, some practical questions about a potential Patek watch purchase:

1) In a Patek AD, is it possible to exchange the default watch strap to the S or XS size variant free of charge, in case the strap was never worn? If not (which I'm afraid would be the case), then how much an alligator strap with a gold deployant clasp would cost? My guess would be somewhere in the $300-$500 range.

2) Which one of the above mentioned models are readily available in most Patek ADs? My guess would be the 5146 and 5396, while the 5170 is only for pre-orders with a waiting list.

3) Is there any difference between a Patek AD and Patek Boutique when it comes to finding the above mentioned models? Am I better off visiting a Boutique in a hope that they would carry more variants of those models? It would be amazing being able to try on both the YG and WG variants of the Annual Calendars, with different faces as well...

4) [[[ I hope this is not an inappropriate question here: ]]] About the steel Nautilus 5711 and 5980 there's not much chance to get a deal at an AD, but what about the gold Annual Calendars? Is there a room for negotiations? Is there a difference between how an AD and a Boutique handles such situations? Is there a policy in Boutiques about firm MSRP, absolutely no room for negotiations? If there's no room about the price, is it possible to get a free strap for example?

5) Probably the least important thing in my life, but would be interesting to discuss: is there a particular Annual Calendar model in the current Patek lineup that is more collectible than the others? Is there a chance one of them would be discontinued soon, after just a few years production, and so it would become a collectors item in the future?

Thank you for taking the time to read all my ramblings above

[WatchTimes]

Contact Greg AKA Mosco, he can help you with Patek!!!

[kilyung]

Nothing wrong with having a 5711/1A and AP15300. Now if you had a 15202 and 3700, then that's very redundant.

1. Yes, they should be able to swap straps foc. In fact they'll swap a bracelet link with a 1.5 link.

2. Readily available is an oxymoron with PP. I never find the models I'm interested in.

3. Really no difference.

4. It's tough to get any discount on PP.

5. In another 50 years, every Patek model will be valuable.

[johnswatch]

Regarding the strap - yes they'll change the strap no problem but the $400 or so for a strap does not include a buckle. A deployant will run to several thousand.

Originally Posted by kilyung

5. In another 50 years, every Patek model will be valuable.

...or worthless. Who knows? You can pick up a fairly recent AP Perpetual Calendar for less than $15,000 now and they have historically been ranked up there with Patek - possibly higher until recent times.

[asadtiger]

go for 5146 and you will never look back on anything else

[Fiery]

Thank you for the answers so far, please keep 'em comin'

[subtona]

was a toss up 20 years ago for my TT sub or this patek....
i never shelled out for one but over the years i have never tired of its design, the simple clean roman numerals and white porcelain dial (incredible in person)

the original 3919 is small by todays standards and i don't have many occasions that call for matching attire. they have updated it and made it a bit bigger but the porcelain dial doesn't seem to have the same quality?

imho this type of watch would be an occasional watch, as such i would avoid any superfluous complications... just the time please.

[rosspanics]

Here's my $0.02...

1) Should be no problem to change straps.
2) Your guess that the 5146 and 5396 are easier to find is correct, although I do see the 5170 in stores occassionally.
3) Some ADs have great selection, others do not.
4) Very little room to wiggle on price at an AD. Yes, freebies would be possible though. If you want a deal though, buy on TRF or TZ from a trusted seller.
5) There seems to be alot of people who think the 5960 will be fairly collectible. It is an annual calendar and chrono. It was Patek's first all in-house chrono calibre. Check out the 5960P with the blue dial. Stunning.

[Andrés G]

I find your post really interesting and also very weird. I basically own the same watches (RO 15300, Sub C and Speedy) and have the same collection strategy of one per brand. I`m also in my 30`s but I wear a suit from Monday to Thursday and favor sporty watches too.



I have also been considering getting a Patek and the Nautilus is the top contender for that spot. My other choices are the 5119G Calatrava or the Breguet Classique Automatic Ultra Slim if I decide to get a "proper" dress watch, but I`m still not sure.

I agree with subtona that this type of watch would be worn occasionally and because of that, it is a good idea to avoid superfluous complications. I used to own a full calendar JLC and it was a pain in the butt to reset before wearing.

[Fiery]

Originally Posted by Andrés G

I find your post really interesting and also very weird. I basically own the same watches (RO 15300, Sub C and Speedy) and have the same collection strategy of one per brand. I`m also in my 30`s but I wear a suit from Monday to Thursday and favor sporty watches too.



I have also been considering getting a Patek and the Nautilus is the top contender for that spot. My other choices are the 5119G Calatrava or the Breguet Classique Automatic Ultra Slim if I decide to get a "proper" dress watch, but I`m still not sure.

I agree with subtona that this type of watch would be worn occasionally and because of that, it is a good idea to avoid superfluous complications. I used to own a full calendar JLC and it was a pain in the butt to reset before wearing.

At least there is one slight difference in my collection compared to yours: my 15300ST has the black dial

As for the less-complicated watches, well... First of all, I have too many simple (read: 3-hand + date) watches already, so it would be great to "spice it up" with some complications. I'm also very fond of the annual calendar movements, since they're very unique, and even though they're technically more complicated (or at least consists of more parts) than perpeatual calendars, they are more affordable than perpetuals. I'm a winder guy, so resetting settings is not an issue fortunately.

The 5119G is a beautiful watch And to be perfectly honest, a year ago I've said to a family member: "If I ever need a dressy watch, it will definitely be a Patek Calatrava". I meant the 5127G actually, but now that the time may come that I get my first dressy watch, it may not be a Calatrava afterall. I find myself drawn to the slate dial 5146J more and more every day...

[Andrés G]

Originally Posted by Fiery

At least there is one slight difference in my collection compared to yours: my 15300ST has the black dial

At least I know you`re a man with good taste.

I find myself drawn to the slate dial 5146J more and more every day...

Seems like you`ve found the right one for you.

[p_mcgee]

I'm not your doppelganger like Andres, but SubC is also my daily wearer, I sold my blue AP 15300 last year, and Speedy Pro will be my 1st chrono (unless I locate a Blancpain flyback that isn't ridiculously overpriced). Anyway I have a Patek 5196R as my dress watch. I dress up infrequently so it sits in the safe about 350 days per year. Pretty frustrating. I'd never sell, but sometimes I wish I had spent the funds on something less formal looking. Its probably irrational but I feel very old man-ish when I wear the rose gold Patek with my everyday clothes.

[LI Matt]

Originally Posted by kilyung

In another 50 years, every Patek model will be valuable.

You could smash a Patek with a hammer, scoop the pieces into a bag, and get $5,000 for the bag

[rosspanics]

For those of you who mentioned the 5119G, I would suggest that you also look at the 5116G with the enamel dial. Very, very nice and far rarer than the 5119G.

[Fiery]

Originally Posted by p_mcgee

I'm not your doppelganger like Andres, but SubC is also my daily wearer, I sold my blue AP 15300 last year, and Speedy Pro will be my 1st chrono (unless I locate a Blancpain flyback that isn't ridiculously overpriced). Anyway I have a Patek 5196R as my dress watch. I dress up infrequently so it sits in the safe about 350 days per year. Pretty frustrating. I'd never sell, but sometimes I wish I had spent the funds on something less formal looking. Its probably irrational but I feel very old man-ish when I wear the rose gold Patek with my everyday clothes.

That's a bit of concern on my part too. I'm not sure how frequently would I be dressing "dressy", and how many days would my dress watch spend on the winder. But I guess wearing a watch only 10 percent of a year would still make it worth owning -- as long as it's a complicated Patek timepiece

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by Fiery

That's a bit of concern on my part too. I'm not sure how frequently would I be dressing "dressy", and how many days would my dress watch spend on the winder. But I guess wearing a watch only 10 percent of a year would still make it worth owning -- as long as it's a complicated Patek timepiece

That's why I ultimately chose a sport model and the 5711/1A was thin and simple enough to serve as a dressy watch as well.