1967 Vintage Sub Project

[cambarr]

ey guys,


My jeweler friend is always looking out for cool timepieces. I'm really into vintage pieces and he has come across an old sub that needs some work..

Watch is in decent to bad shape. Watch is missing crown and bezel and insert. I recently took it to a rolex expert and he confirms it is a 1967 5513. Movement is in decent shape after we opened her up. Needs a new hairspring and an overhaul to the movement. The tube threads are in good shape but the dial was re lumed at some point and its an 8 out of 10 job not bad cosmetically but if you look at it with a loop you can see that it has been redone. the hands are in a heavy patina condition and may be worth refurbishment or replacement...Bracelet was also a non rolex replacement but I knew this already.

The expert advised that it may not be worth investing in the super vintage parts as the watch is not going to retrieve tremendous collector value due to the relume. This watch was worn and loved which I actually kind of like it... I really digg look of the well worn subs on a NATO.


Now on to next steps..

I can purchase this piece for $800.

Based on the info I provided and the attached Pic is this worth the investment... I have been told the parts alone on this piece are worth over $2k.

Should I get serviced and restore via new parts and wear as a daily driver or should I sell off as parts or whole piece and roll money into a newer better maintained piece...

[dw.metro]

I'm an amateur at this but I'd buy it for $800 as a project watch.

[g-boac]

wow! For $800 go for it, and you'd get more out of it if you restore it. It's not that expensive.

The dial is a meters first dial (meaning, the water resistance is listed in meters first, then followed by the feet)l which are substantially older, rarer, and viewed as highly desirable. The lume on your dial aged VERY well - while it doesn't glow (as is expected for any nearly 50 year old tritium lume), it is a nice, mild creamy white, which is exactly as would be expected with a LATE 1967 dial.

You have what is a period-correct (and likely, original) C+I riveted bracelet. Also valuable.

A period-correct twinlock crown and tube would run you about $300 - $400 for the set. The bezel and insert would be a bit more. . .but you could get an original Rolex Serivce Bezel (i.e., a modern, current production bezel made by Rolex to fit your vintage watch), or find a correct vintage bezel for around $500, give or take. And then you'd be in flawless cosmetic shape. The crystal will buff out easily to a pure clear using Polywatch. Do NOT polish or refinish the case thought!

If the movement itself is not damaged, you're looking at perhaps $300 - $400 to get it serviced professionally, which includes disassembly, cleaning, oiling, and reassembly.

Go for it!!

[Jason71]

Yup, for $800 take it off that aftermarket bracelet, have it serviced, and throw it on a NATO and wear it like you stole it.

[NukeMan]

I wouldnt. Relumed dial is 50%+ of the charm of the watch "gone" (well, not entirely) - but valuewise, yes. And as you need to do bracelet, bezel, bezel insert, hands, crown, who knows what else mechanically - and still have a relumed dial, I would pass.

[R.W.T.]

Bracelet is not a serious issue but it is not a C and I period correct bracelet as it is not a rivet type. Hairspring? Seriously? The only way it needs a hairspring is a. it is badly rusted or b. some monkey has been inside and botched it. Mainspring possibly. How do you know the dial is relumed? I can't tell anything from the pictures. Early m first dials glow when charged by light. Don't be fooled by that. I'll give $800.00 right now. To really tell more you need different views in the photos. Clasp etc.

[jban5]

I would drop 800 on that in a second if that case is in decent shape, if it has a twinlock tube still on it and the back wasn't mangled, i'd drop that to half a second.

Even if you kept this as a donor for other projects it would pay for itself with just one of them.

[omitohud]

Go for it. U got a really good deal. Just the mid case alone is worth more than that.


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[cambarr]

Hey Guys,

I pulled the trigger on it! Picked it up yesterday. Cant stop looking at this thing ans wondering where its been and who once owned it... i think that part of the charm to this watch. it was used and well loved.... i attached some more pics (iPhone Pics) and will get more soon with a better camera... My friend is an independent film maker and we are actually thinning about documenting the potential restoration process....

The watch is actually in working condition. I don't think it has been serviced in a while obviously due to the condition/missing parts and lack of signature in the case back... last most current svc signature was in 93' yikes..

[cambarr]

here is some of the additional pics with the case back removed and aftermarket band taken off

[BNA/LION]

BUY it, RESTORE it & WEAR it! Good for you, enjoy and let's see the before/after shots!

[watchcrank]

Fantastic find. enjoy the process.

[Beef]

Enjoy your project and keep us posted!

[Ector495]

Man, I'm jealous. I've been wanting to hit up the antique shops around here and find a hidden gem like this. Keep posting as the restoration goes on.

[cambarr]

Originally Posted by Ector495

Man, I'm jealous. I've been wanting to hit up the antique shops around here and find a hidden gem like this. Keep posting as the restoration goes on.

Thanks! Gems do exist but they are hard to find these days as people are well informed by a simple google search. Best to build up a network of collectors and or jewelers and have them reach out to you when they get something in... You can always find a motivated seller. You just need to be ready to pull the trigger when the opportunity presents itself as I have missed out on a few before this one due to hesitation..


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[cambarr]

Update: I spoke with ABCwatchwerks here in downtown Los Angeles. I actually sourced them via these and other forums and will get my service and move my overhaul done there... Service and movement overhaul starts at $495...

They do t have any period correct bezels and or replacement inserts so I will need to source on my own...

Anyone here know where I can source a good replacement bi directional bezel and insert for this 5513?!


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[Ector495]

http://ndtradingcorp.com/zen/index.p...index&cPath=10

I don't know if these are authentic parts or not.

[robbret]

Originally Posted by Ector495

http://ndtradingcorp.com/zen/index.p...index&cPath=10

I don't know if these are authentic parts or not.

What was that, the first hit in a google search ?
Have no experience with them but the look of the site screams 'asian aftermarket'.

[Max72]

Stay away from them the make fakes

[dysondiver]

ndt wouldnt do that justice ,,, all pattern parts

[1675-David]

are you sure thats a relume? Some of these mf subs actually look a little "redone" even when they are not. Can you post some close ups of the dial?

[cambarr]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

are you sure thats a relume? Some of these mf subs actually look a little "redone" even when they are not. Can you post some close ups of the dial?

sure ill post a better pic when I home from the office... The Watch maker i had look at it may have been looking to score a deal as he offed me $1k to buy the watch on the spot... may have miss informed me to try and devalue the watch... if it is in fact a relume it was done a long time ago as the lume barely holds glow and you can see patina and age on the lume.. its a creamy yellow white...

[cambarr]

think im going to stay away from NGT as I feel they are fake... I'm open to after market parts as long as they are high quality and have good fitment to the watch... what is a good source for parts... any one know? i have goggled but i cant seem to locate a resource with any sort of good reputation or reviews...

thanks for all the help guys..

[strafer_kid]

Think I would take a chance on it alright at that price - if all goes well, you end up with a hell of a watch! Good luck!

[CrownMe]

NGT is as fake as they come. Check out there wonderful dials. Sites like that are what's causing our hobby problems. Smh

[g-boac]

Your lume could very well be original. Lume on 1967 meters first dials falls into one of two categories:

[1] early - lume tends to swell and "puff out" over time, gaining a domed and textured appearance, and yellows. . .it gains a slightly orange-yellow tinge, to sometimes a darker orange hue. This lume does not glow at all if exposed to light.

[2] late - lume remains flat, and tends to remain very light-creamy colored. Lume will glow slightly if exposed to light, and even if not exposed to light, if viewed in a very, very dark room, after your eyes have adjusted to the darkness significantly (30 minutes to an hour. . .i.e., if you wake up in the middle of the night), you will see a faint, but definite glow.

As is, your watch is reasonably worth about $5000. Probably about $600 +/- $200 for a nice original bezel, $500 for a nice original TWINLOCK crown and tube set (p/n 24-700 crown and 24-7000 tube), and maybe $1800 for an original 7206/80 bracelet. Movement parts will cost some too, but those will run in the tens each generally, with a few specialized parts perhaps breaking into the hundreds (but probably not likely needed).

Of the three exterior items mentioned here above, the most expensive (but least urgent) is the bracelet - if you find one, go ahead and grab it. . .but if not, or your immediate budget does not allow, you can TOTALLY enjoy this watch on a fabric NATO strap for under $20, or a magnificent handmade genuine leather strap for $100 - $150.

Finally, if able, send us some side and oblique views of the crystal. If the crystal is original, it can be buffed out to be crystal clear, and the T19 SuperDome crystal is absolutely magnificent - the new replacement crystals do NOT have that same domed profile, so if you have an original, you want to keep it.

Good luck and please keep us posted!

[g-boac]

Finally. . .patience is key. None of the parts mentioned above are unobtainable. They can't be picked up as easily as a watchmaker ordering a current part from the Rolex catalog, but, they can be found. Check the sales corner here, and on VRF (vintagerolexforum.com)

[cambarr]

Originally Posted by g-boac

Your lume could very well be original. Lume on 1967 meters first dials falls into one of two categories:



[1] early - lume tends to swell and "puff out" over time, gaining a domed and textured appearance, and yellows. . .it gains a slightly orange-yellow tinge, to sometimes a darker orange hue. This lume does not glow at all if exposed to light.



[2] late - lume remains flat, and tends to remain very light-creamy colored. Lume will glow slightly if exposed to light, and even if not exposed to light, if viewed in a very, very dark room, after your eyes have adjusted to the darkness significantly (30 minutes to an hour. . .i.e., if you wake up in the middle of the night), you will see a faint, but definite glow.



As is, your watch is reasonably worth about $5000. Probably about $600 +/- $200 for a nice original bezel, $500 for a nice original TWINLOCK crown and tube set (p/n 24-700 crown and 24-7000 tube), and maybe $1800 for an original 7206/80 bracelet. Movement parts will cost some too, but those will run in the tens each generally, with a few specialized parts perhaps breaking into the hundreds (but probably not likely needed).



Of the three exterior items mentioned here above, the most expensive (but least urgent) is the bracelet - if you find one, go ahead and grab it. . .but if not, or your immediate budget does not allow, you can TOTALLY enjoy this watch on a fabric NATO strap for under $20, or a magnificent handmade genuine leather strap for $100 - $150.



Finally, if able, send us some side and oblique views of the crystal. If the crystal is original, it can be buffed out to be crystal clear, and the T19 SuperDome crystal is absolutely magnificent - the new replacement crystals do NOT have that same domed profile, so if you have an original, you want to keep it.



Good luck and please keep us posted!

Thanks for the great info! I'll keep my eyes peeled for parts on the forum.. Any other resources I should check out online that are trustworthy vendors for parts?!


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[cambarr]

Here are some additional pics of the lume and the crystal... Also posted a pic of the tube... Tube under the loop seems to be good but may be worth replacing since I need a new crown... Thinking it may be better for functionality reasons and to insure a good seal... But I could be wrong here...




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[cambarr]

Another pic better and bigger



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