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23 February 2019, 10:14 AM | #1 |
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When the Submariner Date 1680 was introduced?
Release year is not exactly clear and I'd like to understand why. Monochrome, Fratellowatches and Wikipedia put the first 1680 in 1966 (that's what I always thought). Bob's Watches seem confident it was in 1969. Never heard of this 60Clicks but they say 1967. I could post many other links with different infos. The release year was not that long ago, so we should have it documented. What's the reason for this uncertainty?
https://monochrome-watches.com/weekl...date-ref-1680/ https://www.fratellowatches.com/role...riner-history/ https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-bl...iner-1680.html https://www.60clicks.com/rolex-subma...lectors-guide/ |
23 February 2019, 11:28 AM | #2 |
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*crickets*
The Submariner Date is considered by many the iconic Rolex model. It's surprising that no one knows when it was released, especially in the Rolex Forums. |
23 February 2019, 12:28 PM | #3 |
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I always thought 1969 which would make this year the 50th anniversary.
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23 February 2019, 01:17 PM | #4 |
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My Rolex magazine says the sub date was released in 1969.
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23 February 2019, 01:40 PM | #5 |
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23 February 2019, 01:47 PM | #6 |
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Subscribed.
That seems enough proof for me as most of what I can find has evidence for 1969. This would mark an anniversary but only for the Date complication not the model, it's still a nice milestone as the general public associates the Submariner to be a date watch. Do any of our vintage members own a Red Submariner Date 1680 with documentation to prove sale or production before 1969? I'm very interested in this now. The Rolex history website casually jumps over the Submariner Date right over to the Sea-Dweller. The data that says 1966 or 1967 never say why, it's just a date range that is thrown out there seemingly arbitrarily just to cover the bases. Mr Wood, Mr Haywood, Mr MacLeod? |
23 February 2019, 01:55 PM | #7 |
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It's clear that Rolex makes no distinction between the complications. It's just a Submariner, for which the watch "model" the Submariner(date or no-date) is what they recognized with the LV. A few years ago I would have bet my salary that Rolex would not deviate from their tradition. But if the last few years tell us anything is that Rolex does have an eye on it's heritage and history and is taking full advantage of bringing it back, with both Tudor and Rolex. If there was ever a time that I think we would see red writing, now would be a good time. Or.....surprise!! they do nothing and just update the movement. |
23 February 2019, 02:31 PM | #8 | |
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How did we miss that? Hiding in plain sight. Could you imagine. We all just think they are going to do the boring and just update the movement when BAM! They throw in the red writing just because no one was expecting it. I’m on pins and needles @jps3b |
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23 February 2019, 08:53 PM | #9 |
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According to the post in TRF “Reference” section in FAQ, the submariner 1680 which is the first Submariner with date was introduced in 1965
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23 February 2019, 09:30 PM | #10 |
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I have a 210xxxx case number 1680 on record with a I.69 case back.
Perhaps others could post the first few digits of any with lower case numbers / earlier date codes inside their case-backs? Insta : haywood_milton_rolex
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*Comex:5513,5514,1665x2,16800x2,16600 *Mil sub:5517x2,5513x9,5512 *Submariner:6536/1x2,5508,5513 PCG u/line & double SWISS (America's Cup),5513 giltx2, 5513 m-firstx2,5513 gloss WGx2,1680 Red,1680 White Mk1 & Mk2 *Sea-Dweller:1665 DRSDx3,Great Whitex3 *GMT-Master:6542x2 (1 Bakelite),1675x8 (2 gilt), 16750 & SeaKing 116710LN *Explorer:1016x6 (1 gilt),5500x3,14270 Blackout, Orange 1655 x4 *Milgauss 1019x3 *Cosmo 6263 *RNCD DSSD 116660. |
23 February 2019, 09:34 PM | #11 |
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I thought it was 1965, followed by a full gold version in 68 or 69.
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23 February 2019, 09:36 PM | #12 | |
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The serial number beginning around the 2 millions seems to be the only evidence that perhaps leads us to believe that the watch debuted in 1966/67, or maybe they just had cases left over and used them in 1969. |
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23 February 2019, 09:46 PM | #13 | |
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Is is correct that 2,xxx,xxx cases are from '66 onward or would these still be 1969 watches and onward watches?.... |
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23 February 2019, 10:27 PM | #14 |
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In Baselworld history, 1931 was the year when the Swiss Watch Show was first held in a dedicated pavilion. It probably means that in the mid sixties all major watch companies used this platform to release new watches. We just need to know which Baselworld had the first 1680.
What amazes me is that we're not talking about archeology. We're talking about the sixties, and the most poplular sports Rolex, so it shouldn't be a mystery. I'm counting on you guys for a final answer on this thread. https://wristreview.com/a-brief-history-of-baselworld/ |
24 February 2019, 01:10 AM | #15 |
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With good reasons to say as much, I suggest that 2,1m case numbers would be from 1969.
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*Comex:5513,5514,1665x2,16800x2,16600 *Mil sub:5517x2,5513x9,5512 *Submariner:6536/1x2,5508,5513 PCG u/line & double SWISS (America's Cup),5513 giltx2, 5513 m-firstx2,5513 gloss WGx2,1680 Red,1680 White Mk1 & Mk2 *Sea-Dweller:1665 DRSDx3,Great Whitex3 *GMT-Master:6542x2 (1 Bakelite),1675x8 (2 gilt), 16750 & SeaKing 116710LN *Explorer:1016x6 (1 gilt),5500x3,14270 Blackout, Orange 1655 x4 *Milgauss 1019x3 *Cosmo 6263 *RNCD DSSD 116660. |
24 February 2019, 01:24 AM | #16 |
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24 February 2019, 01:32 AM | #17 |
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What mystery?
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*Comex:5513,5514,1665x2,16800x2,16600 *Mil sub:5517x2,5513x9,5512 *Submariner:6536/1x2,5508,5513 PCG u/line & double SWISS (America's Cup),5513 giltx2, 5513 m-firstx2,5513 gloss WGx2,1680 Red,1680 White Mk1 & Mk2 *Sea-Dweller:1665 DRSDx3,Great Whitex3 *GMT-Master:6542x2 (1 Bakelite),1675x8 (2 gilt), 16750 & SeaKing 116710LN *Explorer:1016x6 (1 gilt),5500x3,14270 Blackout, Orange 1655 x4 *Milgauss 1019x3 *Cosmo 6263 *RNCD DSSD 116660. |
24 February 2019, 01:47 AM | #18 |
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24 February 2019, 01:58 AM | #19 |
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Ok, can anyone show examples of 1680s with earlier case numbers?
Alternatively, can anyone show examples with 2m case numbers and justification for thinking that they are from earlier than 1969? There is a lot of recycled information on the internet. Something incorrect that is copied by half a dozen other people makes it no more correct than it was in the first place. Date charts are frequently among the clearest demonstrations of this.
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*Comex:5513,5514,1665x2,16800x2,16600 *Mil sub:5517x2,5513x9,5512 *Submariner:6536/1x2,5508,5513 PCG u/line & double SWISS (America's Cup),5513 giltx2, 5513 m-firstx2,5513 gloss WGx2,1680 Red,1680 White Mk1 & Mk2 *Sea-Dweller:1665 DRSDx3,Great Whitex3 *GMT-Master:6542x2 (1 Bakelite),1675x8 (2 gilt), 16750 & SeaKing 116710LN *Explorer:1016x6 (1 gilt),5500x3,14270 Blackout, Orange 1655 x4 *Milgauss 1019x3 *Cosmo 6263 *RNCD DSSD 116660. |
24 February 2019, 02:05 AM | #20 | |
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I think that what has happened is people have in modern times arbitrarily thrown around the dates "from 1966". I'm no expert but there aren't any 1680's with before 2 million serial and Mr Milton's example is a very early Mk1 from 1969. To me it's no mystery, the first Sea-Dweller came to the public in 1967 and the Submariner as far as I can tell was still dateless. With the success of the Sea-Dweller Rolex prepped for and released the Submariner in 1969. At least that is what I can surmise from perusing through various sound literature. Anytime time you see a date mentioned before 1969, it states "as early as, or been reported, some say"....who, why....seems like just covering their bases in their article. Fratello for example just has contributors and there are two different versions on the same website. I have never seen one for sale with a date or serial number before 1969. But I'm eager to learn as much as you. Why we don't have specifics from Basel...because everything was analog...you'd need to walk into a library and pull paper printed materials from a dusty shelf in Switzerland to find out watch release data from 1969. |
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24 February 2019, 02:06 AM | #21 | |
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It's what seems to be the case. Thank you for your expertise. |
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24 February 2019, 02:24 AM | #22 |
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Isn’t Mark Lerman considered to be an authority on red subs? Much if the info around the web traces back to him. Not sure if he’s a forum member. His comprehensive guide on red subs has mk1 case numbers starting at 2.1m.
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24 February 2019, 05:34 AM | #23 | |
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Quote:
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24 February 2019, 05:46 AM | #24 | |
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24 February 2019, 05:51 AM | #25 |
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I was born in 1969 and always thought the Sub Date was older, but we may have a very interesting way to find out this year.
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24 February 2019, 06:35 AM | #26 |
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Another vote for 1966. I would really like to find out the official release year but no answer so far.
Anyone here own the Mondani books? What they say about it? https://www.chrono24.com/magazine/th...-p_32882/#gref |
24 February 2019, 07:29 AM | #27 |
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its 1969 end thread ˆˆ
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24 February 2019, 12:36 PM | #28 | |
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24 February 2019, 06:48 PM | #29 | |
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They all start in the 2 millions which is roughly the year 1969. If the Submariner Date was sold in 1965 or 67 wouldn't there be one today, at least...one watch or a couple. I'm just an enthusiast and haven't written books or done any thorough research, but where are the watches that they are talking about. The ones from 1969-onward are present and accounted for. |
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24 February 2019, 08:11 PM | #30 | |
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I'm sure i'd read it in Rolex literature
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