Service for Daytona 16520 CW21 vs RSC

[overgrower]

Hi all, my Daytona 16520 is in need of a service. I know many recommend not to send to the Rolex Service Center for fear of parts being changed. However, from my understanding if you are clear in writing that you only want a movement service then they can do so?

From the service estimates I’ve received it seems like a RSC service does not charge much more than one from a CW21. And if the watch is serviced at an RSC the warranty card would be a nice to have

Any feedback? Thanks!.

[swaini3]

I am a fan of the RSC warranty card. Its nice to have with the watch IMO. Im not sure how it works in the US but in London for eg, they are more understanding towards requests to not changing certain parts such as dials and hands etc. Ofcourse, this is within limits.
When I serviced my watch they had a mandatory and an optional/recommended list of things to be done. They will not service your watch if you refused any of the mandatory items.
If you do go the RSC route, make sure you have it in writing clearly on what items you do not what replaced. Including whether you want it to be polished or not. Not against CW21 watchmakers, I do use them as well but as you said the card is nice to have....
I would also take clear pictures of the dial, case, serial number etc, and send it to them when communicating, before you drop of the watch.
My 2 cents....

[swish77]

I recently did just this with my U-serial 16520 at the RSC in NYC. Movement-only service, dial/hands/bezel left alone, and no polishing. I also opted to replace the crystal. The only mandatory part of the service was replacing the crown and gasket for water resistance, but with an identical 704. Total damage with tax, $1,520.33. Took about 12 weeks.

Make sure you have in writing on the RSC paperwork exactly what you want and you should be fine. I'm convinced that most horror stories you hear about RSC and vintage Rolexes are from lack of direction from clients about what they want.

[swaini3]

There you go OP. Just what you wanted...

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by swish77

I'm convinced that most horror stories you hear about RSC and vintage Rolexes are from lack of direction from clients about what they want.

I think that's a big part of it. I've had great experience getting vintage watches movement-only serviced at RSC. Many people have legitimate complaints, but I think people have an exaggerated idea of how perfect independent watchmakers are because people aren't as quick to post "my local watchmaker messed up" threads vs. "RSC messed something up" threads. No watchmaker is perfect, RSC or not.

[overgrower]

Thanks for the helpful info! When you say have it in writing on RSC paperwork, how does that work? Do you have to drop it off in person and write down your request for a movement only service? Or do you type up a letter with the request and drop it off / send it off with the watch?

My Daytona is a T serial. I’m not sure if any service parts would change the originality of it? It hasn’t been serviced since originally purchased!

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by overgrower

Thanks for the helpful info! When you say have it in writing on RSC paperwork, how does that work? Do you have to drop it off in person and write down your request for a movement only service? Or do you type up a letter with the request and drop it off / send it off with the watch?

My Daytona is a T serial. I’m not sure if any service parts would change the originality of it? It hasn’t been serviced since originally purchased!

Every service part changes the originality of the piece......nice patrizzi you have there!

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by overgrower

Thanks for the helpful info! When you say have it in writing on RSC paperwork, how does that work?

I suggest you start contacting them via email sending pictures of your watch and what you want done and what you dont want done. Asking for a quote and how long it will take etc.
When you drop it off, they will give you a paper. Make sure that piece of paper has all your notes mentioned or ticked (do not replace dial, hands, bezel etc.). They will get back to you with a service estimate after inspecting the watch (xx days) with what has to be done. If you approve, they will proceed. If you dont, you cancel the job and take your watch back.
Generally, thats how it works.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by overgrower

Thanks for the helpful info! When you say have it in writing on RSC paperwork, how does that work? Do you have to drop it off in person and write down your request for a movement only service? Or do you type up a letter with the request and drop it off / send it off with the watch?

My Daytona is a T serial. I’m not sure if any service parts would change the originality of it? It hasn’t been serviced since originally purchased!

I work in NYC, so I did it in person. But if you're sending your watch in, I'd make sure you follow RSC instructions for that, and presumably you'd talk to a Rolex rep on the phone after they get the watch.

They'll recommend all types of things, but just make it clear you only want the movement serviced and nothing else. Then that will be on the Rolex paperwork you'll need to sign and send back to them. Changing the crown will probably be mandatory, but that's not a big deal in my book because it'll be the exact same part.

The key is to make sure they don't replace your beautiful Patrizzi dial (or hands and bezel) and no polishing. Here's the summary on my RSC paperwork. (I picked up the watch so I didn't pay the shipping charge here.)

[overgrower]

Thanks guys I really appreciate it. The last time I went to the RSC Beverly Hills was in the mid 2000s for a Datejust. At the time I didn’t pay any attention to preserving original parts.

I’ll follow all of the advice given and make sure it’s just a movement service with a possible crown replacement.

[overgrower]

Aaron, was the crystal replacement a requirement?

Seems like the current crystals have the laser etched coronet?

Or that’s not a big deal for originality?

[1665fan]

Just send to Philip Ridley or laww and ask for service only....not too hard

[swish77]

Originally Posted by overgrower

Aaron, was the crystal replacement a requirement?

Seems like the current crystals have the laser etched coronet?

Or that’s not a big deal for originality?

Personal preference. I wanted a fresh sapphire crystal because mine had a minor nick on the edge, but it wasn't mandatory. I don't think it has much of an effect on value, but who knows. My new crystal does indeed have a laser-etched crown on it. (Original acrylic crystals on 4-digit Rolexes are a different story, especially domes/super domes. Originals do affect value.)

Originally Posted by 1665fan

Just send to Philip Ridley or laww and ask for service only....not too hard

That's an option too, and they both do fine work. But there's something special about having Rolex service paperwork, and it also adds value to the watch.

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by swish77

Personal preference. I wanted a fresh sapphire crystal because mine had a minor nick on the edge, but it wasn't mandatory. I don't think it has much of an effect on value, but who knows. My new crystal does indeed have a laser-etched crown on it. (Original acrylic crystals on 4-digit Rolexes are a different story, especially domes/super domes. Originals do affect value.)



That's an option too, and they both do fine work. But there's something special about having Rolex service paperwork, and it also adds value to the watch.

It’s your gamble....I’d rather not myself

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by swish77

Personal preference. I wanted a fresh sapphire crystal because mine had a minor nick on the edge, but it wasn't mandatory.

Nice. I love the replacement crystal with the etched coronet at six o'clock. I have one on my Oysterquartz because the high edges of the original sapphire were chipped to F. Doesn't affect value at all as far as I'm concerned. And like you say, you get some nice paperwork, and if you're lucky, a little green Rolex pouch.

Crystal, crown and tube are all replaceable without affecting value for me. Case, dial and hands, not so much.

[Onequik135i]

I would send it to Ridley, LAWW or even Rolliworks. Ridley serviced my 16710 (service only) & cured my on going issue I had with it. Your T serial 16520 is absolutely stunning especially if your the original owner. Send it off to Ridley that way no gambling on yours just in case. He also sends you detailed photos of your exposed watch case to view the internals, pretty cool if you ask me.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

It’s your gamble....I’d rather not myself

It's always a gamble with any watchmaker servicing a vintage watch, no matter how good he/she is. I've had my own issues through the years with some of the recommended watchmakers on this site. Nothing egregious, but let's just say no one is perfect. I'm not sure an RSC is any more of a gamble.

All options above are solid. For me, the RSC service paperwork provides a lot more value in the end and is worth it.

I will say that I feel differently about five-digit models, than true four-digit vintage. When I got my 6263 several years ago, it went to the Ridleys for service, not the RSC.

[PVR]

So, you prefer sending your Vintage Rolex to RSC instead of a qualified C21 watchmaker? Lets go over the pros and cons...

You will pay 4 times as much for RSC to service your watch over a private C21.
I would also argue that private watchmakers are actually MORE qualified to service vintage than the newbie watchmakers at RSC who are trained specifically for modern.

You will wait 3-4 months for your watch to be serviced at RSC, whereas a private watchmaker can turn it around in probably 1-2 weeks.

You can tell the cute counter girl 100 times that you dont want your bezel, hands and dial swapped out. You can even put it in writing, but once they pull it you will never get them back. You will have no recourse and will not be able to sue either. Its a terrible gamble and you are at the mercy of Rolex.

I have also heard stories of people who purchased their watches off ebay or pawn shops legitimately, only to have RSC run the serial and have the watch come back as stolen. Then its seized, you dont get it back and you're out 20-30k.

If you want an etched crystal or non, any good C21 Watchmaker can source one for you. Ridley is a great choice. The RSC service receipt is nice, but it isnt the same as a punched certificate so, don't expect it to add thousands to the value of your watch.. For me, ANY 4 or 5 digit reference will never see RSC again in its lifetime.

[Dan S]

It's interesting how the CW21 marketing has been so successful that people seem to equate it with excellence. It's like a generic term for being certified. My watchmaker has WOSTEP training/certification because he originally trained in Switzerland, and in some parts of the world that means a lot (BTW, it means a lot to Rolex). But on a US-centric forum, I wonder how many people are even familiar with it.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by PVR

So, you prefer sending your Vintage Rolex to RSC instead of a qualified C21 watchmaker? Lets go over the pros and cons...

You will pay 4 times as much for RSC to service your watch over a private C21.
I would also argue that private watchmakers are actually MORE qualified to service vintage than the newbie watchmakers at RSC who are trained specifically for modern.

You will wait 3-4 months for your watch to be serviced at RSC, whereas a private watchmaker can turn it around in probably 1-2 weeks.

You can tell the cute counter girl 100 times that you dont want your bezel, hands and dial swapped out. You can even put it in writing, but once they pull it you will never get them back. You will have no recourse and will not be able to sue either. Its a terrible gamble and you are at the mercy of Rolex.

I have also heard stories of people who purchased their watches off ebay or pawn shops legitimately, only to have RSC run the serial and have the watch come back as stolen. Then its seized, you dont get it back and you're out 20-30k.

If you want an etched crystal or non, any good C21 Watchmaker can source one for you. Ridley is a great choice. The RSC service receipt is nice, but it isnt the same as a punched certificate so, don't expect it to add thousands to the value of your watch.. For me, ANY 4 or 5 digit reference will never see RSC again in its lifetime.

I've used RSCs and indies for decades, and while some of the points above might be valid, such as the stolen-watch risk, I can tell you from my own experience that some of the points are not entirely accurate:

_Good independents who specialize in vintage Rolex, many of whom are often mentioned on this forum, are not much cheaper than RSCs, if at all. I have the receipts to prove it.

_The wait times can actually be longer at independents vs. RSCs. Again, I've experienced both, and I guess it would vary from case to case. But nothing is really fast. Ask about wait times at LAWW, for example. I once had a watch there for five months. Yes, five months. They do good work, but it ain't fast.

_The horror stories about RSCs replacing parts against clients wishes are exaggerated. Has it happened? I'm sure it has (never to me). But to suggest it's common is not accurate. Rolex services tens of thousands of watches worldwide every year. If RSCs consistently replaced parts without advance authorization from clients, you'd hear a lot more about it. Any work, including replacing parts, needs to be signed off on by clients. Why? Because they charge for parts and you need to agree to the charges in advance.

_The RSC paperwork is not just a receipt. It's a warranty card with the matching serial number that authenticates the watch and all of its parts. In this day and age of growing angst over fake Rolexes and fake parts, the RSC paperwork helps to remove doubt.

I'm not necessarily advocating using RSCs for vintage in all cases. There's a reason they didn't get my 6263 and DRSD. However, I wouldn't avoid RSCs in every case. In general, I've had good experiences with the RSC in NYC.

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by Dan S

But on a US-centric forum, I wonder how many people are even familiar with it.

Precisely.

[PVR]

Swish: I wish the OP would get an estimate from RSC and post it up. This way we could see what they charge and estimated time for repair. Then let OP ask an independent how much they would charge and how long it would take.

I would be hard pressed to believe that the indy would ever be more expensive or take longer than RSC.

As far as LAWW, that isnt a fair comparison. 90% of what they do is case restoration. They also do dial and hand reluming, laser welding and even bracelet repairs. Why would you send a movement there for service is beyond me. The time it would take to get it done could very well be 5 months.

Ridley is a great suggestion. There are many others who do nothing but service movements. My watchmaker services my movement in one day. It actually takes him 20 minutes to break it down, 2 hours in the cleaning machine and 30 minutes to reassemble and oil. So, the actual time to service a movement is less than an hour. 12 weeks or 5 months is just sitting in a queue waiting to get the work done.

[Spark]

This question has been asked on this forum so many times in my time here.
It evolves with new members & ages of watches.
In Europe it seems to be easier to get a vintage piece serviced at RSC without seeing its originality destroyed or at least as long as you make it clear when delivering the watch.
If you send by post & agree to what the Rolex estimate states, then you will have a vintage case arrive back to you with a new bracelet, dial, hands & crystal & a very heavy unnecessary bill!
It all comes down to making sure you explain what you want when you take the watch to RSC or reply to their letter or e-mail & you decide not to accept the terms they offer or you don't & get a well recommended Rolex Certified watchmaker to carry the work out to your requirements.

It is a weird phenomenon, but the philosophy of Rolex is to make the watch as good as new & in their eyes making the hands & dial readable at night & the bracelet strong enough to stop the watch head falling off is important.
They do not understand us sad b'stards who want an old watch to be old.

Mark.

[mattedialdoc]

Keep in mind that parts for the 4030 movement are now no longer available to watchmakers directly from Rolex. The 4030 is now “manufacturer repair only”. Your watchmaker may have a stash of parts, but those are dwindling, and many watchmakers get their parts from EBay just like me and you. Thus going forward the independent service will not be an economical alternative .


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[1watch]

I would go with a trusted CW21 for service on a 16520. I don’t trust RSC not to mess up anything that’s not a current offering.

[GST15]

Originally Posted by swish77

it's always a gamble with any watchmaker servicing a vintage watch, no matter how good he/she is. I've had my own issues through the years with some of the recommended watchmakers on this site. Nothing egregious, but let's just say no one is perfect. I'm not sure an rsc is any more of a gamble.

All options above are solid. For me, the rsc service paperwork provides a lot more value in the end and is worth it.

I will say that i feel differently about five-digit models, than true four-digit vintage. When i got my 6263 several years ago, it went to the ridleys for service, not the rsc.

+1

[lennywilkins]

Doubt there are many CW21 watchmakers who can get parts for a 4030, therefore RSC should be recommended every time for a Zenith Daytona.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by PVR

Swish: I wish the OP would get an estimate from RSC and post it up. This way we could see what they charge and estimated time for repair. Then let OP ask an independent how much they would charge and how long it would take.

Well, you can see above for the RSC cost for a movement-only service for my 16520, which was relatively recent: $1,250. That's the standard cost at U.S. RSCs.

By comparison, in 2018, I sent my 6263 Daytona to Watchmakers International (the Ridleys, before they started working separately) for a movement-only service. The cost was $1,350.

I realize it's not a direct comparison because they're different movements, but they are both old Rolex chronographs. The time to get them back was roughly the same, about three months.

I will say that I started being very cautious using C21 independents after a nightmare about 15 years when, during a movement-only service, the watchmaker claimed the original tritium crumbled out of the hands of my (former) 5513 and he re-lumed them without telling me with hideous green luminous that glowed like a torch. (Either he was just very careless or he actually kept my beautiful originals.) I ended up tracking down another tritium handset, which was a huge headache and expensive (although cheap by today's standards.)

[1watch]

Originally Posted by lennywilkins

Doubt there are many CW21 watchmakers who can get parts for a 4030, therefore RSC should be recommended every time for a Zenith Daytona.

That's the first question to ask a CW21. I happen to know one that would have original parts and would trust far more than RSC to not mess up any original parts and likely charge less and do the service quicker as well.

[overgrower]

I was quoted starting at $1,000 and $1,200 + parts costs at two well known Rolexforums watchmakers to service my 16520 Daytona. As mentioned previously they stated that the parts for 4030 movements were no longer directly available.

Rolex Service Center is $1,250. Hence I’d rather go with RSC for a movement only service. I asked the forum for feedback on how to help ensure that parts would not be replaced. And the information has been very helpful and much appreciated!

Just haven’t had the opportunity to go to RSC Beverly Hills during weekday working hours when they’re open.