All blue GMT fake

[037]

Originally Posted by Showcall

is it just me? or do the numbers especially the 22 always look way too close to the edge of the bezel? and why are they always so shiny when the dial, hands and bracelet always so old looking?

Prototype, bro.

[canadianswiss]

Originally Posted by 037

Prototype, bro.

Yes, I have seen some inset prototypes over the years, all done at someone’s garage.
:):)


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[Showcall]

]Prototype, bro. [/QUOTE]

from the Singer "skunkworks" no less

[exador]

Presumably Paul Altieri

It continues to be a point of debate within the collecting community. While certain letters from Rolex state that "to the best of their knowledge" a blue insert was never officially offered, there also exist service quotes for 1675 watches from Rolex that explicitly mention the all-blue insert.
Some explain this discrepancy by drawing the distinction between factory-fitted components and genuine service replacement parts. It is confirmed that the all-blue Blueberry insert was never an option that was formally offered by Rolex from the factory; however, the same could be said about many genuine service components. At the time, Rolex was not the vertically-integrated manufacturer that they are today, and contracted out the production of many components to third-party companies. While Rolex never offered the 1675 GMT with an all-blue insert direct from the factory, this does not necessarily mean that genuine all-blue inserts were not pro duced as service parts by their third-party manufacturer at the time.
For example, Rolex never offered the ref. 5513 Submariner from the factory with LumiNova dials; however, should you have the dial of your 5513 Submariner replaced by Rolex, it will be replaced by a later-era service component with LumiNova markers rather than the factory-fitted version with tritium markers. That service dial is 100% genuine; however, that exact dial configuration was not something that Rolex ever offered as an option on the 5513 from the factory.
Rolex has stated that (to the best of their knowledge) an all-blue insert was never offered as an original option; however, they have not yet commented as to whether or not the blue insert was ever produced as a genuine service part and fitted to watches after they originally left the Rolex factory.

[canadianswiss]

Originally Posted by exador

Presumably Paul Altieri

Unbelievable hogwash!

This is conceived as a total murkiness, to confuse as many people as possible.
Where are the Service Documents that are alleged in this letter???
The one presented in various forums is nothing but a joke of a century.
It is at best a simple Rolex replacement value evaluation for insurance purposes.

TO WHOMEVER WROTE THAT LETTER:
PRESENT AN ORIGINAL ROLEX SERVICE CENTRE DOCUMENT!
Do not allege anything, just present it for all of us to see.

NAME ONE ROLEX SERVICE CENTRE THOSE INSERTS ORIGINALLY CAME OUT OF?? WE ARE WAITING.


The talk about a Service Replacement Dial for 5513 leaves me speechless!
I can not believe a serious, reputable dealer would write such nonsense!

I can name ten RSC using those parts, can a person who wrote that letter name ONE RSC the blueberry insert allegedly came out of?

Pleeeeease, more fantasies, innuendos, unproved stories, legends and pure nonsense.
Unreal.

PS, so now the “original” legend of UAE special order is out of the window, yes??
Hahaha!

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[mrs_LA]

Originally Posted by roh123

Imagine this..

It is around 1999 and a parts dealer meets an old watchmaker in Florida. The dealer is offered a bulk of parts including some odd looking all blue inserts. They could have been described as service parts from a RSC, as custom made aftermarket inserts or just that no one knew. The dealer buys them as they look genuine from the font and basically cost nothing.

Once back the dealer shows these inserts to his friends and they agree that they kind of look genuine. Still no one ever saw all blue inserts so they aren’t really sellable. The dealer sells/gives away some to his friends and they all like their new cheap, fun insert. Time goes and one of his friends has a lose UAE dial and an odd looking all red gmt hand. The friends joke around and says it will look cool put-together. And indeed it does. The friend then comes up with the idea that they should see what Rolex says about his all red hand UAE dialed blueberry GMT. He goes to the New York RSC and submits the watch for insurance evaluation. The RSC gives him a receipt of what has been submitted and eventually also gives him a letter back describing an UAE 1675 with an all blue insert. What started with some odd parts is now suddenly ’approved by RSC’. The friend proudly posts his new watch on the collector forum together with the service paper. Long, long discussions start and people are intrigued. No one ever saw that before. Some are sceptic and some are amazed.

After a while the dealer thinks he might be able to sell these mythical all blue inserts. After all Rolex did respond when it was submitted and people doesn’t really conpletely discard these as fakes. He sells a few to other people he knows and these eventually spread out. Probably mostly as a fun thing. One day one of these friends wants to sell the all blue insert and suddenly it isn’t just for 50usd. It is for 1000usd and he actually sells it as an ultra rare part. The dealer realizes he just won the jackpot if these inserts really are rare and expensive. He still has a ton of inserts left. Over the years he sells them for 1k, 2k, 4k and suddenly they are costing more than a 1675 itself. The inserts eventually trade on watches for huge premiums. Good times!

One day people really start to question what started as a 10 dollar fun thing that quickly became a big dollar business. The dealer who still don’t know if they are real or not need to stick by his story. Not like he can reimburse 30/40/50 10k-inserts that he have sold over the years. Not even like he made that kind of money as he sold some cheap and some expensive. Market value is what people will expect back. So that means that the inserts have to be real.

Not saying this happened. Just speculating.

Personally I have no idea and I can’t say I care. I never had one and I don’t plan to ever buy one.

You've done it.

[ROGERB]

Originally Posted by exador

Presumably Paul Altieri

Phew well that settles it!!




Wait were we not talking on page one about the grassy knoll
R

[springer]

Originally Posted by canadianswiss

Well, I would beg to differ.
Even though Rolex statement on those bezels would be nice it is not entirely necessary in my opinion.
We have brains for a reason, let’s just use them.
We know certain facts about those bezels that, logically, exclude almost any and all possibility of those bezels to be an AUTHORIZED Rolex product.
Most of us do not need to see a Rolex letter to figure it out.
Just like nobody ever seen a atom yet we know atoms exist.

:):)


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Maybe newbie you will exercise your limited posting here by practicing what you write...use your brain and read my post again. Let it filter down this time to your brain. It doesn't matter what you think. If the man - Rolex - decides they are real - game over.

[canadianswiss]

Originally Posted by springer

Maybe newbie you will exercise your limited posting here by practicing what you write...use your brain and read my post again. Let it filter down this time to your brain. It doesn't matter what you think. If the man - Rolex - decides they are real - game over.

Hi there buddy,
I do not think there is any need of being rude to anyone, newbie or a guy with 20K posts.
I have been collecting vintage Rolex for over 30 years, have been around the block once or twice.
I do not know you, or how long you are to collecting and what do you collect or not, I would just assume you are a fellow, friendly Rolex collector though.
I think you did not read my post carefully, I said : Rolex letter would be nice.

However chances of Rolex writing it are next to none.
That I may be wrong on, stranger things have happened, I repeat it would be nice to have it from them.


In a meantime we shall use our brains to guide us through this issue, that’s all I am saying.

Supposedly you have been collecting for a while, do you personally know, or any of your collector friends personally know a first, original owner of a Blueberry Watch?

Of course if Rolex decides to write that letter one day it will be all over, one way or another, however, we, most probably, will be waiting for it for a while, in the meantime, again, I suggest we use our brains to keep us safe.

Respectfully,
Tom
:):)





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[springer]

Originally Posted by canadianswiss

Hi there buddy,
I do not think there is any need of being rude to anyone, newbie or a guy with 20K posts.
I have been collecting vintage Rolex for over 30 years, have been around the block once or twice.
I do not know you, or how long you are to collecting and what do you collect or not, I would just assume you are a fellow, friendly Rolex collector though.
I think you did not read my post carefully, I said : Rolex letter would be nice.

However chances of Rolex writing it are next to none.
That I may be wrong on, stranger things have happened, I repeat it would be nice to have it from them.


In a meantime we shall use our brains to guide us through this issue, that’s all I am saying.

Supposedly you have been collecting for a while, do you personally know, or any of your collector friends personally know a first, original owner of a Blueberry Watch?

Of course if Rolex decides to write that letter one day it will be all over, one way or another, however, we, most probably, will be waiting for it for a while, in the meantime, again, I suggest we use our brains to keep us safe.

Respectfully,
Tom
:):)





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Tom, I've been collecting over 40 years, and I am quite aware of how my brain functions. With that said, I don't know anyone that originally purchased a blueberry watch from Rolex or an insert from their service department. But, as I said before, Rolex will have the final say in this, not you, me or anyone else - whether you agree or not.

[ma.st.]

First, as a reader and follower of this thread, this has been very interesting and thanks to everyone for contributing to the debate. I had read the previous threads but the small nuanced details and their ensuing discussions are what bring me back and keep me interested.

What's most interesting to me is, if they are a service part why does this service part impart a massive gain in value whereas every other service part imparts a devaluation to a specific example of a reference?

Have you all who are vastly more experienced and in the game longer than me ever seen another instance where a service part (a confirmed service part, which I'm not suggesting these inserts are, please don't pounce!) have added versus subtracted value?

[exador]

Originally Posted by ma.st.

What's most interesting to me is, if they are a service part why does this service part impart a massive gain in value whereas every other service part imparts a devaluation to a specific example of a reference?

Have you all who are vastly more experienced and in the game longer than me ever seen another instance where a service part (a confirmed service part, which I'm not suggesting these inserts are, please don't pounce!) have added versus subtracted value?

Excellent point. I guess the difference is that this "service part" only seems to be available to a few select individuals

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by ma.st.

Have you all who are vastly more experienced and in the game longer than me ever seen another instance where a service part (a confirmed service part, which I'm not suggesting these inserts are, please don't pounce!) have added versus subtracted value?

I think the direct answer to your question is "no", but the issue is more subtle.

The people who own and sell these watches would prefer people to believe that the inserts are original. However, currently most sellers don't claim this explicitly, instead they generally use nuanced language, saying things like "the watch comes with a blueberry insert". So as long as the inserts are authentic service parts, the listings aren't explicitly false.

[canadianswiss]

Originally Posted by springer

Tom, I've been collecting over 40 years, and I am quite aware of how my brain functions. With that said, I don't know anyone that originally purchased a blueberry watch from Rolex or an insert from their service department. But, as I said before, Rolex will have the final say in this, not you, me or anyone else - whether you agree or not.

Hey, looks like you have not only posting count advantage but collecting advantage as well. That’s settled.
I absolutely would take Rolex letter under at most consideration, I doubt it would be issued though. That’s settled as well.

But, again, we are left with our brains only for the time being at least.

I would be in shock of a lifetime if Rolex issued a letter stating these inserts are Rolex parts, for their quality alone, if not for anything else.

Why would Rolex manufactured an insert so technologically disadvantaged from anything else they ever put out?
Why, all of a sudden, they would change technological process, proven for decades, and come out with an end result that could be easily performed by any half decent paint shop around the world?
What does your 40 years collecting experience tell you about that?

PS, with our 70 years collective involvement in vintage Rolex, our connections to tens or possibly hundreds of serious collectors around the world, we do no not know even ONE original owner of the watch or the insert alone, moreover, none of the people we know know of anyone who would know the first owner (at least in my case). That’s literally thousands of collectors around the world.
Nobody on this forum knows of a first owner, and nobody on the VRF knows if one either.

Based on what we know so far nothing less but a miracle would have to be involved in saving the Blueberry Insert!
MHO only.

Best Regards,
:):)



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[1665fan]

Someone has to have a blueberry their grandfather left them on the sidewalk...

[ma.st.]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I think the direct answer to your question is "no", but the issue is more subtle.

The people who own and sell these watches would prefer people to believe that the inserts are original. However, currently most sellers don't claim this explicitly, instead they generally use nuanced language, saying things like "the watch comes with a blueberry insert". So as long as the inserts are authentic service parts, the listings aren't explicitly false.

very good point, and the nuanced language shifts the burden of proof as others were debating previously. I don't think the burden of proof can explicitly be tagged to either buyer or seller and therein lies the root of the debate and the creation of a market that seemingly defies logic. Again I say "defies logic" not to take a side but to make a point that the prices paid for modern and vintage watches recently and the meteoric rise of both exist in a little bit of a perfect storm of many many factors discussed ad nauseam be it SS shortage, controlled inventory, AD power trips, social media hot-doggin' etc etc.

[aurenas]

Originally Posted by 79280_116520

This I agree. Lots of collectors have put TOO MUCH "faith" in the "trusted" sellers that they fail to do due diligence on their own. It's basically taking a "leap of faith".

It's funny how there is one "reputable" dealer who has sold over 20 blueberries with brand new looking bezels. The constant stories have been told that it's VERY RARE. If the average sold price of a blueberry is $40k x 20 = $800k of ill-gotten profiting. I feel bad for those 20 naive collectors with too much pocket money...

I mean if there is demand.. And people are paying, why not?!

[77T]

Wasn’t the OP’s post #1 that Rolex wrote the letter with the “final word”?




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[canadianswiss]

Originally Posted by ma.st.

very good point, and the nuanced language shifts the burden of proof as others were debating previously. I don't think the burden of proof can explicitly be tagged to either buyer or seller and therein lies the root of the debate and the creation of a market that seemingly defies logic. Again I say "defies logic" not to take a side but to make a point that the prices paid for modern and vintage watches recently and the meteoric rise of both exist in a little bit of a perfect storm of many many factors discussed ad nauseam be it SS shortage, controlled inventory, AD power trips, social media hot-doggin' etc etc.

Hello there,

The law is very clear on that subject, if you are buying Rolex and have bought converted Timex the deal is null and void and the money has to be returned.
If you are buying a product, let’s say Nike shoes, and they turned out to be fake the deal is null and void, the money has to be returned.
One of very few buyers protections that exist.
You have simply bought not what you were bargaining for and you do not have marketable title to the property you have bought.

In case if a Blueberry insert a lot depends on wording indeed, probably most dealers have a written contract, possibly with a lot of disclaimers, and, possibly again, with special terms regarding controversial parts.

:):)





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[79280_116520]

Originally Posted by 77T

Wasn’t the OP’s post #1 that Rolex wrote the letter with the “final word”?




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Yes, but a few individuals are trying to obfuscate the evidence.

[77T]

Well I get the desire to never let facts get in the way of a good story...


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[RolexPassion]

Originally Posted by springer

Total utter nonsense...BS. None of this is fact, and again, pure speculation on your part.

I've been around the vintage kingdom for a few decades, and while I admit I don't know everything Rolex, I would like to see you address the issue of how Singer ending up making inserts for Rolex - not blueberry inserts, but genuine inserts. Also, what else did Singer make for Rolex?

But there is no need for speculation. There has been enough of that already.

Also, what else did Singer make for Rolex?
Most of dials and bezels of that years .....

You make all this show,
but i see from your Instagram you sold a 1675 Radial Blueberry last February, not ?

[RolexPassion]

Originally Posted by ma.st.

First, as a reader and follower of this thread, this has been very interesting and thanks to everyone for contributing to the debate. I had read the previous threads but the small nuanced details and their ensuing discussions are what bring me back and keep me interested.

What's most interesting to me is, if they are a service part why does this service part impart a massive gain in value whereas every other service part imparts a devaluation to a specific example of a reference?

Have you all who are vastly more experienced and in the game longer than me ever seen another instance where a service part (a confirmed service part, which I'm not suggesting these inserts are, please don't pounce!) have added versus subtracted value?

obviously because is all BLUE and rare

[RolexPassion]

and you are believing in a subject that immediately disappeared from instagram, with a letter that he could have made in two minutes with photoshop and then take a picture of it and put it on instagram ...

now they are mocking him like this ....

[RolexPassion]

somebody known before this hamburgvintagewatches or he was only orchi with a new instagram account ?

wake up peoples ! don't sleep

[RolexPassion]

so i checked now

hamburgvintagewatches don't exist on instagram

don't exist a name on google like a shop or internet watches aficionado

in a nutshell, it doesn't exist anywhere.

that is, he joined instagram to get from the clique and bring the holy grail and then how did it get gone?

you are really ridiculous ...

HamburgVintageWatches is simply orcs, or one of the birds that run in his mind, and you are all here to build legends on a letter made in two minutes with photoshop, printed and photographed a little in the dark ....

We are talking about the cosmic nothing

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by RolexPassion

you are really ridiculous ...

I’m guessing that the irony that you typed that is completely lost on you.

[moneypenny]

Originally Posted by Showcall

]Prototype, bro.

from the Singer "skunkworks" no less[/QUOTE]

[Swiss Mad!]

Is it possible the blueberry dials are just back dials that have somehow faded over time - possibly from a faulty batch?

After all it's not unknown for some other watch parts to alter over time - 'tropical' dials that have changed from black to brown - 'patrizzi' dials on Daytona's to name a couple of example's.

Just a thought.

[canadianswiss]

Originally Posted by Swiss Mad!

Is it possible the blueberry dials are just back dials that have somehow faded over time - possibly from a faulty batch?



After all it's not unknown for some other watch parts to alter over time - 'tropical' dials that have changed from black to brown - 'patrizzi' dials on Daytona's to name a couple of example's.



Just a thought.

You are not serious, please, please say it is a joke!
Haha, just checked your profile, I think I got it!




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