Considering rolling the dice

[G@tor B@it]

All:

Thank you in advance for your time reading this and consideration of my issue.

Found a watch on this forum and have an agreement over an attractive price. Problem is the seller is far from the standard guys on here, such as DavidSW. This seller has like 10 posts. He has watch, inner and outer box, and warranty card. However, does not have the booklet or other paperwork. From my research on here, seems like the warranty card is the bone of contention, which is included.

He is offering to meet at any jeweler, AD, or bank. I will admittedly have no clue what I'm buying. I've been here a month, and every post I read about fakes, I'm totally fooled.

So here are my two questions:

1. My local AD (Tom Cook Jeweler - Daytona Beach, FL) states that only Rolex can open a watch and verify. I see tons of recommendations here, "take it to an AD." But if its standard protocol NOT to open them up, then why does everyone recommend that so much/often?
2. Can anyone recommend a AD or other authority in the Ft Lauderdale, FL area?

I know the members here take this forum very seriously. Before posting here I did read the approved posts for this forum in particular, and it did list aid in verification and authentication. Thank you in advance for your time and knowledge!

[interestedwatcher]

Just so you know, some 'franken models' can have real movements, real dials, real hands, etc. So just seeing a movement in the back is no guarantee, a lot of people say 'buy the seller'.

How good is the deal?

[interestedwatcher]

Also, what model and year is the watch. Do you have pics.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by G@tor B@it

I will admittedly have no clue what I'm buying. I've been here a month, and every post I read about fakes, I'm totally fooled.

Why are you so desperate to buy this watch?

[G@tor B@it]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Why are you so desperate to buy this watch?

I wouldn't say I'm desperate, I'm probably a little indifferent. The indifference is due to the fact I'm not a Rolex expert, and probably never will be, even after buying my first one! But I'm a banker by trade, money is way too important to me. That fact is how I can afford to buy a Rolex. So from a month's worth of research, this watch ranges from $12.5 to $13.5. The seller has agreed to sell it for $11,000. If I can save a minimum of $1,500, then yes, I need to be all over this deal.

Now from reading the posts many will say, the agreed upon price is a red flag. However, we both live in FL and can have a F2F transaction. If he's willing to meet anywhere to have the watch verified, wouldn't that eliminate the red flag?

Ultimately, I'm very torn, which is frustrating me. I'm a banker, so I want the best deal I can possibly muster. I can't see paying $1,500 more to buy from DavidSW (just using him as an example) for "piece of mind"... because I won't know his watch is real anymore than I'll know this guy's watch is real! And even if I assume it's real because of his lenghthy reputation here... my "piece of mind" will be compromised by the fact I paid significantly more than I should have for the watch! Hopefully someone can relate to this! But also being a banker, I could NEVER stomach spending even $200 on a fake watch! So after thinking about this... I'm leaning toward taking the best deal I can get, and doing EVERYTHING I can to make sure this watch is legit. So my request is information about how to best verify it given I have a F2F.

Thank you in advance!

[G@tor B@it]

Originally Posted by interestedwatcher

Just so you know, some 'franken models' can have real movements, real dials, real hands, etc. So just seeing a movement in the back is no guarantee, a lot of people say 'buy the seller'.

How good is the deal?

Thanks for your reply! The watch seems to go from 12.5 to 13.5 from sellers like DavidSW or Bob's Watches online. He agreed upon $11,000. Its a TT Submariner with a warranty card dated 2017.

There is an ad on here in the for sale. I don't really know how to attach it here, and I really don't want to call this guy out... because I have 0 reason to believe he's a scam or call him into question. But it was posted the morning of 12/10, two tone blue Submariner.

I greatly appreciate your consideration!

[FinWatch]

Do the deal with David.
I would.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by G@tor B@it

I wouldn't say I'm desperate, I'm probably a little indifferent. The indifference is due to the fact I'm not a Rolex expert, and probably never will be, even after buying my first one! But I'm a banker by trade, money is way too important to me. That fact is how I can afford to buy a Rolex. So from a month's worth of research, this watch ranges from $12.5 to $13.5. The seller has agreed to sell it for $11,000. If I can save a minimum of $1,500, then yes, I need to be all over this deal.

Now from reading the posts many will say, the agreed upon price is a red flag. However, we both live in FL and can have a F2F transaction. If he's willing to meet anywhere to have the watch verified, wouldn't that eliminate the red flag?

Ultimately, I'm very torn, which is frustrating me. I'm a banker, so I want the best deal I can possibly muster. I can't see paying $1,500 more to buy from DavidSW (just using him as an example) for "piece of mind"... because I won't know his watch is real anymore than I'll know this guy's watch is real! And even if I assume it's real because of his lenghthy reputation here... my "piece of mind" will be compromised by the fact I paid significantly more than I should have for the watch! Hopefully someone can relate to this! But also being a banker, I could NEVER stomach spending even $200 on a fake watch! So after thinking about this... I'm leaning toward taking the best deal I can get, and doing EVERYTHING I can to make sure this watch is legit. So my request is information about how to best verify it given I have a F2F.

Thank you in advance!

Given your thread title Considering rolling the dice spending less and reducing risk do not make sense.

So you are shopping for a deal not a watch?

I too am a former banker and to me trust is everything and risk is paramount.

Someone selling here like David has a sterling reputation. To me the price difference is well worth it to take the risk off the table.

Good luck.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by G@tor B@it

I wouldn't say I'm desperate, I'm probably a little indifferent. The indifference is due to the fact I'm not a Rolex expert, and probably never will be, even after buying my first one! But I'm a banker by trade, money is way too important to me. That fact is how I can afford to buy a Rolex. So from a month's worth of research, this watch ranges from $12.5 to $13.5. The seller has agreed to sell it for $11,000. If I can save a minimum of $1,500, then yes, I need to be all over this deal.

Now from reading the posts many will say, the agreed upon price is a red flag. However, we both live in FL and can have a F2F transaction. If he's willing to meet anywhere to have the watch verified, wouldn't that eliminate the red flag?

Ultimately, I'm very torn, which is frustrating me. I'm a banker, so I want the best deal I can possibly muster. I can't see paying $1,500 more to buy from DavidSW (just using him as an example) for "piece of mind"... because I won't know his watch is real anymore than I'll know this guy's watch is real! And even if I assume it's real because of his lenghthy reputation here... my "piece of mind" will be compromised by the fact I paid significantly more than I should have for the watch! Hopefully someone can relate to this! But also being a banker, I could NEVER stomach spending even $200 on a fake watch! So after thinking about this... I'm leaning toward taking the best deal I can get, and doing EVERYTHING I can to make sure this watch is legit. So my request is information about how to best verify it given I have a F2F.

Thank you in advance!

No one here can teach you how to verify a Rolex watch F2F. If you really want "piece of mind" (sic), buy from a reputable dealer.

[Zakalwe]

Face to face is absolutely no guarantee you won’t get scammed or worse, assaulted. It has happened.

Personally I’d pay money to avoid a face-to-face with a complete stranger where a five figure transaction is on the table.

I’d also pay the premium for peace of mind.

[locutus49]

Do the deal with David. You can trust him and if later it is proved to be fake, he will take it back. Consider the premium as buying an insurance policy. Especially if you sell it at some point and the buyer proves it to be a fake. All that worry can be eradicated if you buy from David.

One final thing. Don't be too aggressive but you may be able to negotiate the price a bit.

[BisonHead]

If your risk averse then skip this and buy from a reputable dealer/AD that you can get a refund from if everything is not as it should be.

Why worry about $1500 when you could be out of pocket by $11k on this deal. Not saying the seller is anything less than stellar of course.

I would rather spend an little extra, then lose a lot more. I am not a Banker, just applying common sense.

[psv]

If you care about money as you say, you should care about value and risk. The value of buying a watch without papers is way less, you will never get your money back trying to sell it afterwards. You get what you pay for. Secondly, why do you want to take on extra risk exposure?

Just pass on that one. Keep looking for the right one, from the right seller.

[G@tor B@it]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Given your thread title Considering rolling the dice spending less and reducing risk do not make sense.

So you are shopping for a deal not a watch?

I too am a former banker and to me trust is everything and risk is paramount.

Someone selling here like David has a sterling reputation. To me the price difference is well worth it to take the risk off the table.

Good luck.

Thanks for the input Shannon... I appreciate it.

Here's my experience in life... yours may be different. Nothing in life is free, and nothing worth having comes easily. I've saved thousands of dollars in my life, but only because I had to mix an element of risk and/or an element of effort. As individuals, we each decide how much risk we can stomach or how much effort we are willing to make. Risk I'm not a big fan of. But I'm always willing to make effort, effort is free. Effort can potentially save you money. And that really takes me back to my original question, that I don't see an answer to yet:

Will an AD open up and/or verify a watch for you? Do fellow members know of an AD in the Ft. Lauderdale area who would verify or authenticate a watch?

Thank you so much!

[erhein]

Many things in life involve risk. Everyone has an acceptable level of risk for various activities and ventures. Yours may not be the same as mine. G@tor_B@it sounds like an intelligent, rational, logical guy (assuming G@tor_B@it is a guy). He's not asking anyone to tell him what his acceptable level of risk should be, or lecture him on risk. Sounds like he's already gone through that equation.

To get to the question, I think it comes down to the individual AD and whether the AD is willing to accept the risk of authenticating the watch by simply opening the case and looking at the movement. Frankly, that seems risky to me and I fully understand an AD's reluctance to do that. That's why some charge a fee ($150.00?) for authenticating. I'm not in southern Florida, but there's a huge Rolex market in the area. There must be someone, AD or otherwise, who can authenticate, either for a fee or gratis. I'd suggest spending some time on Google and calling around looking for someone reputable who is willing to open the case and look at the movement. Doesn't necessarily need to be an AD. That's just my $.02, but I think it's worth every penny.

[Littletommy]

There is a Rolex repair facility just north of you in Ormond Beach, I'd check in with them.

Google 'Rolex Service Center-Ormond Beach' for their info.

[Jim Smyth]

So how would you feel if you bought a AAA replica for 11K? I know how I would feel and it would ruin my whole watch buying experience for life! Thats what you supposedly risk here. You have been given the proper advice and its your to take or leave.

Did you also know that Davids watches are potentially negotiable? How about that you can get a receipt and appraisal with the purchase? This way you dont have to jump through that hoop when trying to insure it.

After being on TRF for 6 years I have read of guys getting pistol whipped for the cash they bring to a deal or there watch. Drugged and robbed. Grab and dash (in a bank of all places). Slight of hand and switching watches. Buying a stolen watch. The list goes on and on.

You have to do your homework with getting a watch authenticated by someone that knows what there doing. AD's probably are not the best route since they didnt sell you the watch. They most of the time dont have qualified people to open the watch up and then reseal it and then take the responsibility that water doesnt get inside later and then you blame them.

[214270Explorer]

He has some of the items but no paperwork?

Sounds very suspicious, plus he has a low sales post count.

DAVIDSW all the way, DON'T even think about it.

Save yourself potential grief and go with a well-known, long-respected seller. With DAVIDSW you will also receive great peace of mind.

A lot of AD's will not open a watch for verification, as it is not in any way, shape or form, in their business interest. Plus the possibility of potential damage they wish not to incur.

[Jim Smyth]

If its the watch thats dated in 2017 where the guy just joined TRF Nov 2019 and he has 6 posts I would pass. I am not saying hes a scammer but it has all the signs. His first post on TRF states he trades 10-15 watches a year. If thats even remotely accurate he would know how important paperwork is and he would keep everything intact. Its a Shark infested Ocean out there and you are way out of your league so if it were me who doesnt take gambles I would go the safe route.

[G@tor B@it]

Originally Posted by Littletommy

There is a Rolex repair facility just north of you in Ormond Beach, I'd check in with them.

Google 'Rolex Service Center-Ormond Beach' for their info.

Tommy - thank you! I found that location early in my research and thought I hit the gold mine! But I called and they do not verify or authenticate watches. They will only perform service. But still nice to know I can at least get my watch serviced locally! Thank you for looking that up.

[G@tor B@it]

Thank all of your for your input! I could counter on some of your points... for instance I'm not worried about my personal safety because I'd insist on an established jeweler or AD. And I'd pick it, not him! However, the advise was overwhelmingly against this scenario, so I'm going to pass on this deal. I will let the seller know and apologize for wasting his time.

I'm heard headed... and am not 100% resolved to go with DavidSW yet (remember, just using him as an example). But from the posts here I now understand having a watch authenticated is no easy task. And I further see why AD's have little to no interest in it. So given all of that, it seems like a great deal of any Rolex purchase (when not new from an AD) is centered around trust. So I'll start resigning myself to part with an extra $1,000 (hopefully less) and deal with someone here. DavidSW will be high on my list, as we can do a F2F. And perhaps do the first of more deals down the road.

Again, thanks to everyone for their input... and especially for those who looked up the post.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by G@tor B@it

Thank all of your for your input! I could counter on some of your points... for instance I'm not worried about my personal safety because I'd insist on an established jeweler or AD. And I'd pick it, not him! However, the advise was overwhelmingly against this scenario, so I'm going to pass on this deal. I will let the seller know and apologize for wasting his time.

I'm heard headed... and am not 100% resolved to go with DavidSW yet (remember, just using him as an example). But from the posts here I now understand having a watch authenticated is no easy task. And I further see why AD's have little to no interest in it. So given all of that, it seems like a great deal of any Rolex purchase (when not new from an AD) is centered around trust. So I'll start resigning myself to part with an extra $1,000 (hopefully less) and deal with someone here. DavidSW will be high on my list, as we can do a F2F. And perhaps do the first of more deals down the road.

Again, thanks to everyone for their input... and especially for those who looked up the post.

Agree with the previous comments about your polite and well-articulated position. You seem like a welcome addition to the forum!

I'm not trying to cast aspersions in any way, but this thread has got me curious as to how folks like DavidSW authenticate their watches that aren't sourced directly from an AD. Are they also risk takers gambling on the honesty of their suppliers and their own intuition, willing to incorporate liability into the cost of doing business?

From some of the opinions expressed, it amazes me that a legitimate watch transaction ever occurs outside of an AD.
Call me an optimist, but I think the majority of properly vetted transactions work out just fine for both buyer and seller but we hear disproportionately about the scams. Some will assert it doesn't matter the odds if you are among the unfortunate.

And finally, buying the seller is always terrific advice ... unless you trusted your retirement savings with Bernie Madoff.

[Tridor]

Buy the seller! David has a great reputation. Remember, when rolling the dice, you could come up with snake eyes. I think the price differential is worth the peace of mind.

[michael067]

Don't roll the dice, I live in Vegas usually doesn't work out too well

[whatsthetime?]

Originally Posted by beshannon

So you are shopping for a deal not a watch?
To me the price difference is well worth it to take the risk off the table.

Couldn't agree more!

[white__light]

If you don’t buy from a reputable buyer, you’ll look at the watch every day and wonder if it’s real or fake.

Or spend a bit extra and get peace of mind.

[Bladeshot]

Some ADs might open a watch if you already have a relationship. But it’s not in their interest. That takes time. They have work to do on other pieces. I believe mine would, in most cases, for me. However, I have other options and try not to bother them. Like others said, you are swimming it shark infested waters. You need someone to check it, who absoutely knows their stuff. Lots of good advice above.

Have the person in Ormond check it. I’ve done several deals with individuals who have low post counts. It’s always risky. It has worked out for me, so far.

Happy hunting.

[JayB]

Originally Posted by G@tor B@it

I'm leaning toward taking the best deal I can get

Sorry, I hope I'm wrong but I think you could be in for quite a wake up call.

[RobotDoctor]

I agree with the others with dealing with someone reputable, like DavidSW. I definitely agree with spending 10% more for absolute peace of mind. To me knowing a Rolex I just purchased for low 5 figures is authentic. Maybe the watch is the real deal. If the watch is not authentic then it is a lot easier to make up the $1,500 than the $10,000+ if it’s not. Peace of mind to me is worth dealing with an AD or reputable seller.

[RobotDoctor]

Originally Posted by RobotDoctor

I agree with the others with dealing with someone reputable, like DavidSW. I definitely agree with spending 10% more for absolute peace of mind. To me knowing a Rolex I just purchased for low 5 figures is authentic. Maybe the watch is the real deal. If the watch is not authentic then it is a lot easier to make up the $1,500 than the $10,000+ if it’s not. Peace of mind to me is worth dealing with an AD or reputable seller.

I meant, "... If the watch is authentic then it is a lot easier to make up the $1,500 than the $10,000+ if it's not. ..."