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Old 22 August 2014, 02:52 AM   #61
pfg1
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Do you buy new or gently used PPs?

On flipping and resales, how much of a cash or percentage "hit" do you take?
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Old 22 August 2014, 03:42 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pfg1 View Post
Do you buy new or gently used PPs?

On flipping and resales, how much of a cash or percentage "hit" do you take?
I buy new from AD only, 1 time I got got a used watch on a trade : worst mistake ever.

As far resale it depends, the best resale I ever got was when I bought a brand new rolex sub no date non-ceramic form the AD for 5k, I use the watch for 1 year and sold it for 5k.

Like a year and a half a go I post a thread of called from 20 to 10 watches and disclosed some info, a friend posted this table of the watches I sold then

jorgeTABLE.jpg


With Patek is not the same, I would say can sell it at Retail - 23% (of course it depends on the model), so it boils down to how good was your discount.

I hope it helps
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Old 22 August 2014, 04:39 AM   #63
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That is a great chart you have of the buy/sell/loss. Kudos to you for keeping those types of records. I prefer to bury my head in the sand instead of seeing on paper how my of a hit I took. Haha!
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Old 22 August 2014, 04:42 AM   #64
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I buy new from AD only, 1 time I got got a used watch on a trade : worst mistake ever.

As far resale it depends, the best resale I ever got was when I bought a brand new rolex sub no date non-ceramic form the AD for 5k, I use the watch for 1 year and sold it for 5k.

Like a year and a half a go I post a thread of called from 20 to 10 watches and disclosed some info, a friend posted this table of the watches I sold then

Attachment 525997


With Patek is not the same, I would say can sell it at Retail - 23% (of course it depends on the model), so it boils down to how good was your discount.

I hope it helps
I take your motto "Ignorance is Bliss" when it comes to watch purchases from the past
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Old 22 August 2014, 04:43 AM   #65
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That is a great chart you have of the buy/sell/loss. Kudos to you for keeping those types of records. I prefer to bury my head in the sand instead of seeing on paper how my of a hit I took. Haha!

Thanks mate, actually I went back to the 1 year and half old thread copy and pate the Table ! Lol
And the table was made by a friend poster that collected my data and put it together LoL

But yeah is good that I have good memory

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Old 22 August 2014, 04:50 AM   #66
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I take your motto "Ignorance is Bliss" when it comes to watch purchases from the past
Yes, to me more than anything means that when you think all that is out there is Rolex, Omega and Tag then is not that bad. When you realize the existence of Patek, Lange, AP etc... then all you can say is Damn !!:bang head:

I really don't want a disclose the money I lost, with Black Toro UN, Lange Timezone, Saxonia Thin etc.... that is no FUN !!
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Old 22 August 2014, 05:01 AM   #67
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Hi Jorge,

Quite the journey! I think however you have arrived at a wonderful destination.
If i made a table chart of the girls I dated over the years i think it would be worse LOL.

Anyway, if you could have back 2 of the watches from the past (money not the issue just on looks and love for the reference) which one would it be?
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Old 22 August 2014, 05:02 AM   #68
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PS I think an AP Diver in your collection would be incredible, SS nice but ceramic even sportier and different than all your other pieces./// not to be an enabler//
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Old 22 August 2014, 05:31 AM   #69
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Hi Jorge,

Quite the journey! I think however you have arrived at a wonderful destination.
If i made a table chart of the girls I dated over the years i think it would be worse LOL.

Anyway, if you could have back 2 of the watches from the past (money not the issue just on looks and love for the reference) which one would it be?
That's a hard one, because for a moment I thought APRO, but then I remember the reasons why is not with me anymore. So I would say again, is more a couple of decisions that I want a take back more than an a specific watch.

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PS I think an AP Diver in your collection would be incredible, SS nice but ceramic even sportier and different than all your other pieces./// not to be an enabler//
Well it doesn't appeal to me the idea of having a full black or white watch, so if anything I like better the steel diver.
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Old 22 August 2014, 05:53 AM   #70
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Hi Jorge, very interesting thread. Seems to reflect the lifecycle of a WIS!! Sold my small rolex collection to fund my first patek. Now looking to slowly rebuild the collection.
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Old 22 August 2014, 06:10 AM   #71
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My wife says much the same about my waist line, "less is more".
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Old 22 August 2014, 02:29 PM   #72
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Hi Jorge, very interesting thread. Seems to reflect the lifecycle of a WIS!! Sold my small rolex collection to fund my first patek. Now looking to slowly rebuild the collection.
Yes it does, it's been 2 years with this hobbie but have to admit is been intense Enjoy your WIS lifecycle !
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My wife says much the same about my waist line, "less is more".
I hate it when they are right all is good
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Old 22 August 2014, 03:15 PM   #73
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Jorge a couple of more thoughts from you and we need to put this as sticky for all the desperate flippers and WIS.
Ignorance is a Bliss!

Love it
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Old 22 August 2014, 03:31 PM   #74
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Jorge,
Your buy/sell/loss chart is humbling. For me, it underscores the decent deals available through TRF Trusted Sellers on grey market or gently used watches. I understand the safety of buying from an AD - but only for buyers who "buy and hold"...... For flippers, the TRF Trusted Sellers appear to be a great deal.
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Old 22 August 2014, 09:34 PM   #75
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Jorge a couple of more thoughts from you and we need to put this as sticky for all the desperate flippers and WIS.
Ignorance is a Bliss!

Love it
Yes Ignorance is a Bliss !! Thank you
Sticky ? And yes if it helps any WIS to make wiser decisions or to have a better understanding of the game then I am all for it
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Jorge,
Your buy/sell/loss chart is humbling. For me, it underscores the decent deals available through TRF Trusted Sellers on grey market or gently used watches. I understand the safety of buying from an AD - but only for buyers who "buy and hold"...... For flippers, the TRF Trusted Sellers appear to be a great deal.
I do think TRF trusted sellers is an asset and yes you can find great deals. But I will share a couple of thoughts about it:
- In some instances I have found cheaper prices buying brand new from the AD than buying used from a Trusted Seller; the opposite is also true so do your diligence and research your options before pulling the trigger.
- Rationally for a flipper yes it makes more sense buying used than brand new to minimize losses but "personally" for me even though I understand that I still prefer buying from the AD I just can't buy used and I learned the hard way. But that doesn't mean that you should, if it doesn't bathers you by all means the better deal is to buy it used.
- Personally the biggest asset is that you have a very good option to "sell" your watches with a TRF trusted seller

Kudos
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Old 31 August 2014, 12:21 AM   #76
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Great thread buddy, I totally relate, even if I don't have so many and of so high end brands like you did, I have ten, exactly 1 Omega Sea Master, Cartier Santos, Panerai 233K, 28, 82, Rolex Daytona 116515, Sub C LN, BLNR, Blancpain L-Evolution, PP5712, and like you I don't like that they stay in the safe with no wrist time, I just wear the ones I prefer, so am also going for the 3 watch stage, also want the sub LV, and either keep the BLNR or get a RO 15202 (was very hot but a little less now that I know that the movement needs regular service to avoid wear and damage) and of course the PP 5712.

I found myself enjoying much more my watches when I had 2-3, especially my Panerai which 1 is discontinued dial, the 233K, and 2 special LE, 28 and 82, I prefer to flip them so someone will wear them rather than them getting old in the bank's safe.

So I totally understand, maybe some can enjoy a huge collection, thought I would, but really not.

About buying them new I totally understand, I also can't buy used, getting the watch new unworn is 20% of the game for me, except I never buy from an AD but from private sellers or grey dealers, did so for all my watches and got from good to great discounts with no problem, but I did a very thorough check of the buyers and every time except 2 I did a face to face deal, even took the train from Paris to Frankfurt to get my Pam 82.

Thanks for the great thread

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Old 31 August 2014, 12:47 AM   #77
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+1 to make this a sticky, and about the AP Diver you already know my thought, I don't think you should, your 3 pieces are just great, if you really needed/wanted to add 1 more I would think Aquanaut, the only problem is that the most beautiful is the RG and you have 2 RG's in your collection
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Old 31 August 2014, 01:11 AM   #78
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Great thread buddy, I totally relate, even if I don't have so many and of so high end brands like you did, I have ten, exactly 1 Omega Sea Master, Cartier Santos, Panerai 233K, 28, 82, Rolex Daytona 116515, Sub C LN, BLNR, Blancpain L-Evolution, PP5712, and like you I don't like that they stay in the safe with no wrist time, I just wear the ones I prefer, so am also going for the 3 watch stage, also want the sub LV, and either keep the BLNR or get a RO 15202 (was very hot but a little less now that I know that the movement needs regular service to avoid wear and damage) and of course the PP 5712.

I found myself enjoying much more my watches when I had 2-3, especially my Panerai which 1 is discontinued dial, the 233K, and 2 special LE, 28 and 82, I prefer to flip them so someone will wear them rather than them getting old in the bank's safe.

So I totally understand, maybe some can enjoy a huge collection, thought I would, but really not.

About buying them new I totally understand, I also can't buy used, getting the watch new unworn is 20% of the game for me, except I never buy from an AD but from private sellers or grey dealers, did so for all my watches and got from good to great discounts with no problem, but I did a very thorough check of the buyers and every time except 2 I did a face to face deal, even took the train from Paris to Frankfurt to get my Pam 82.

Thanks for the great thread

Thanks ! And yes the buying used/New/From AD or not is a personal issue. It's all about doing your homework and you should be Fine. I had an issue with my 5712/1A, it was nice to drive to the AD and let them take care of it.

Cheers !
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Old 1 September 2014, 02:06 AM   #79
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Thanks mate
I had the PAM 372 as well, beautiful watch but it didn't stick. Unfortunately when you sell you are gonna loose no matter what unless you have collective rare Patek or you bought at a great price and you sell at the right time. I can't comment in the Sentimental Value watches because I haven't experienced that situation. That's probably a tough one because you have watches lying there with little or no wrist time, and you have to suck it up. Alternatively put them on a safe on a Bank, don't even count with them as part of your collection. With my current mind set, I feel that 5 watches is already a sign of hoarding but to each it's own. What makes sense to me might not make sense to you.
Kudos
I don't know if you loose money when you flip it depends what you buy and at what price, I bought 3 Pams 1,5 years ago, 2 special editions, 82 and 28 and discontinued dial 233K "dot dial", all of them 100% unworn, seeing that I have a 6th sense which avoids me from hitting or scratching them, even my beaters, all of my watches are practically scratch free, a few micro ones at maximum so they are at 98%, Looking the resale prices on many sites they are worth much more than what I paid for them, 10-20% more, same for my Blancpain, got it for 9.900 euros when retail is 20.900, prices are minimum 30% more for mint when mine is unworn, I put it at 20% more, the only ones where I will loose a little are my Rolexes, but not so much as I got them for a good price, Daytona 116515 for 17.500 instead of 23.400, have a proposition for 16.700, the sub LN and the BLNR I should loose around 300-400 euros each, as for my other 3 watches can't sell them, sentimental value even if I don't wear them, the Cartier was my 18th birthday gift from my grand mother, the Omega Seamaster a gift from my mother, and the vintage Omega gold chrono was my fathers, so keeping them to pass on to my son
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Old 1 September 2014, 02:54 AM   #80
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I don't know if you loose money when you flip it depends what you buy and at what price, I bought 3 Pams 1,5 years ago, 2 special editions, 82 and 28 and discontinued dial 233K "dot dial", all of them 100% unworn, seeing that I have a 6th sense which avoids me from hitting or scratching them, even my beaters, all of my watches are practically scratch free, a few micro ones at maximum so they are at 98%, Looking the resale prices on many sites they are worth much more than what I paid for them, 10-20% more, same for my Blancpain, got it for 9.900 euros when retail is 20.900, prices are minimum 30% more for mint when mine is unworn, I put it at 20% more, the only ones where I will loose a little are my Rolexes, but not so much as I got them for a good price, Daytona 116515 for 17.500 instead of 23.400, have a proposition for 16.700, the sub LN and the BLNR I should loose around 300-400 euros each, as for my other 3 watches can't sell them, sentimental value even if I don't wear them, the Cartier was my 18th birthday gift from my grand mother, the Omega Seamaster a gift from my mother, and the vintage Omega gold chrono was my fathers, so keeping them to pass on to my son

The prices that you see listed is sites, is usually not the actual sale price most of the time. But in my experience you don't make any money when you flip, you lose. But they are always exceptions like when you buy something at a phenomenal price and then you find an interested buyer. It happens

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Old 1 September 2014, 04:56 AM   #81
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Jorge , just wondering why did you moved from 12a to 12r?
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Old 1 September 2014, 05:16 AM   #82
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Jorge , just wondering why did you moved from 12a to 12r?

I want it my cake and eat it too. Meaning, I love the slickness of the thin case but didn't like the weight on steel. So with the gold version I gain weight for one. Second the thin bracelet with the thin case made the watch wobble around too much. This might be fixable with the 1.5 link that you can order. But the biggest thing is that the RG Nautilus is a Stunner. So is like the best of both worlds. But I think that at the end is a very personal decision. Because, if you want a Nautilus under 40K, then I would pick the 5712/1A

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Old 1 September 2014, 01:54 PM   #83
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The prices that you see listed is sites, is usually not the actual sale price most of the time. But in my experience you don't make any money when you flip, you lose. But they are always exceptions like when you buy something at a phenomenal price and then you find an interested buyer. It happens

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Well probably true, I did get a few pieces at a phenomenal price, Pam 28, Blancpain, Pam 233K, the Daytona also is not bad 17.500 instead of 23.400, but since I prefer ivory dial than chocolate and it's less in demand I will loose for sure, just happy didn't buy it for retail, 8.000 euros +/- loss would've killed me :bang head:

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Old 1 September 2014, 05:16 PM   #84
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^only the rich buys at list
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Old 1 September 2014, 10:43 PM   #85
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Well probably true, I did get a few pieces at a phenomenal price, Pam 28, Blancpain, Pam 233K, the Daytona also is not bad 17.500 instead of 23.400, but since I prefer ivory dial than chocolate and it's less in demand I will loose for sure, just happy didn't buy it for retail, 8.000 euros +/- loss would've killed me :bang head:




I am glad it worked for you. I don't like to remember the numbers because I would be banging my head every time !!

Cheers !

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^only the rich buys at list

Not even the rich friend, and that's probably why they remain are rich. Lol

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Old 1 September 2014, 10:58 PM   #86
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Nice trio!

Actually all are nice!

Enjoy whatever you settle with!
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Old 1 September 2014, 11:35 PM   #87
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I am glad it worked for you. I don't like to remember the numbers because I would be banging my head every time !!

Cheers !




Not even the rich friend, and that's probably why they remain are rich. Lol


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Exactly my friend!
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Old 2 September 2014, 12:10 AM   #88
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Nice trio!

Actually all are nice!

Enjoy whatever you settle with!

Thanks friend !!

Cheers !!

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Exactly my friend!

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Old 2 September 2014, 01:38 AM   #89
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Question about the "loss" chart. Watches cost $69k after discount. Sold for $47k (87 retail - 39loss) so net loss is "only" $22k. Right?

I understand what you are doing with your collection. It's not easy to do.
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Old 10 September 2014, 01:42 AM   #90
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I love both your 5205R and the 5712R!

I am also leaning towards the 5712R hopefully in the next year...
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