My Patek 5990 is FINALLY at HSWA NYC for Service.

[rodwatch69]

PP quality control has gotten to be very bad. The way they treat customers in offensive. The delay in servicing pieces during repair is unacceptable.

The only way to handle this is to stop buying their merchandise. I have and I have no regrets. I actually LOVE the new 5711R but, I refuse to pay that kind of money for fear that the pins show, or the date wheel sticks, or the crown pulls completely out, or the watch doesn't keep proper time....and then to hear the guys at Henri Stern tell me 6 months to service a 1 day old watch. I will absolutely lose my sh-t and kick myself in the ass for knowing better and still buying a PP. SO done with them. Even with a reduction in price a few months ago, they are still sitting on tons of pieces that no one is buying. HK is also finished so who's going to buy them now?

[Patek Philippe]

Sorry for you Subking. I hope Patek or your Ad would give you a really good complementary for what have happned to you.

[SubKing]

thanks for the supportive words everyone.

Part of me wants to return the watch and be done with it and part of me wants to keep it.

I bought the watch for a reason, because I really wanted it. If patek could just give me what they advertise and stop sending be garbage, I would be happy.

But it doesn't seem like they can even do that.

Then for the company and my AD to have attitudes on top of everything is like the cherry on top of the cake.

[SubKing]

the more I inspect the watch the more I find...

The 10 o-clock marker is scratched up. So is the tip of the hour hand.

starting to look like a refurbished watch.

[martinr]

Originally Posted by martinr

Good luck I'm sure it will be perfect.

Well, looks like I spoke too soon. I'd be livid and sell every Patek I owned and vow never to buy another. The scratched hour marker is really unacceptable to say the least.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by rodwatch69

PP quality control has gotten to be very bad. The way they treat customers in offensive. The delay in servicing pieces during repair is unacceptable.

The only way to handle this is to stop buying their merchandise. I have and I have no regrets. I actually LOVE the new 5711R but, I refuse to pay that kind of money for fear that the pins show, or the date wheel sticks, or the crown pulls completely out, or the watch doesn't keep proper time....and then to hear the guys at Henri Stern tell me 6 months to service a 1 day old watch. I will absolutely lose my sh-t and kick myself in the ass for knowing better and still buying a PP. SO done with them. Even with a reduction in price a few months ago, they are still sitting on tons of pieces that no one is buying. HK is also finished so who's going to buy them now?

I agree. The only way to get Patek to listen is for sufficient number of customers to stop buying their watches. It seems they don't care about QC and customer service. Really sad for a supposedly top brand.

Originally Posted by SubKing

thanks for the supportive words everyone.

Part of me wants to return the watch and be done with it and part of me wants to keep it.

I bought the watch for a reason, because I really wanted it. If patek could just give me what they advertise and stop sending be garbage, I would be happy.

But it doesn't seem like they can even do that.

Then for the company and my AD to have attitudes on top of everything is like the cherry on top of the cake.

I think you should just return it for a full refund if you still can. Buying a new watch esp a PP should be a joyous experience, not like this. It's not worth the additional stress and your time if you are to confront them again to correct the latest QC problems.

[shumv]

I've followed this thread and can't imagine what stress this have put on you. i get very paranoid when i self-inflict a scratch, and think about it all day, thus i'd probably go crazy if was delivered with one/a few. i have not put my PP under a microscope to look for defects, and after reading this i don't think i'd dare to.

Coincidently I'm on the waiting list for a 5990(expecting a call from AD any day)but now really having second thoughts. i just might need to bring a microscope with me at time of pick up but then the AD may think i'm crazy. could it just be the nautilus/aquanaut so-called sports watches that are getting less attention to detail?

and as to customer service level, could it be that US ADs are more arrogant than rest of the world? as the ADs i've dealt with in HK don't seem to have that level of attitude.

[Mikehii]

Originally Posted by shumv

I've followed this thread and can't imagine what stress this have put on you. i get very paranoid when i self-inflict a scratch, and think about it all day, thus i'd probably go crazy if was delivered with one/a few. i have not put my PP under a microscope to look for defects, and after reading this i don't think i'd dare to.

Coincidently I'm on the waiting list for a 5990(expecting a call from AD any day)but now really having second thoughts. i just might need to bring a microscope with me at time of pick up but then the AD may think i'm crazy. could it just be the nautilus/aquanaut so-called sports watches that are getting less attention to detail?

and as to customer service level, could it be that US ADs are more arrogant than rest of the world? as the ADs i've dealt with in HK don't seem to have that level of attitude.

If really there are arrogant ADs, Why? Their products( Patek Watches ) involving millions of dollars in transactions, involving people or Wis who have fat pockets, which mean who and why they are trying to be arrogant to? At the end it will be just them who trying to make sales to end users.

[ash20]

I'd suggest a refund at this point. Agree it looks like a refurb. Specifically with the bracelet, the reason you see the circle "ghost" is because the laser welding didn't penetrate correctly to wick (flow) between the pin and the bracelet link to join the materials. It will require laser welding again, then a polish and likely will be too narrow at that point (possibly out of their specification) plus they'd have to reform the top edge facets. This is also likely why the top edge facets are rough (the bracelet has been over polished on the ends, thereby exposing the pin ghost).

The fact you see the ghost circles signals a weak strength of the pin to link. However, I believe these pins are press fit anyway so there probably isn't a real strength concern, more the fact it's visually obvious and not ideal (should be integrated invisibly). You could request a new bracelet but then you've got the scratches on the hour marker. Real concern is what can't you see (or haven't found) that is also not ideal. Get a refund and switch AD's.

I highly recommend to anyone purchasing a PP to invest in a 10X loop or request one from the AD and perform a visual inspection prior to taking ownership. For me, the 10X loop also brings you closer to the watch and process, which is half the fun for me

[rodwatch69]

Return the damn thing and be done with PP.

AD gets no profit, PP makes no money, they now have two defective pieces to restore/refurbish/resell. Let them abuse some other moron. I just don't understand why anyone would allow themselves to be treated this way. Mistreated, abused, spoken to like a child. Who do they think they are?

Initially, you did the right thing and were professional and polite. Once that didn't work and the AD started shouting at me... You are a more calm man than I.

Have some discipline. You know that all bridges are burned now. I am not even blaming you but, when a customer starts to speak up and cause problems the PP way is to just shut them up and dump them as there are plenty of less discerning customers out there who won't be as particular or say a word about damage.

Here we are in 2015 and I can't think of any PP pieces that aren't selling at deep discounts over retail. I mean every single piece, yes even 5711's get discounted just not as often as ALL of the others. Just a few years ago pieces were selling at 10,20 even 30% ABOVE retail. Remember the 5960 when it came out with 4 back to back price increases and flippers marking them up and reselling them each time?

One of my best friends just bought a 5004, which is supposed to be an application piece selling at full retail. Picked it up at 20% off and double sealed, against all PP rules. With the discount alone he could have bought a brand new Mercedes Benz. So much for application pieces, cutting bags, no discounts, etc.

PP is in trouble and deservingly so. No company can behave like this and expect customer loyalty.

[Passionata]

SK I m reading this thread and just can believe the story ,I d get in thouch with the CEO instead of arguing with an AD or the employees at HSWA , tell the story to Mr. Stern I m sure he will find the way to correct it.

[HorologyK]

I would not waste my time with Stern. He will not take your call and probably dismiss your concerns. I would demand a refund and move on. Clearly you have enough evidence for a refund so that is my advice.

[texex91]

I don't think Patek is for you. Get a refund (like you should have before) and buy another brand.

[GoingPlaces]

Wow, this thread has certainly affected my opinion of PP. Seems others on TRF have some issues too. Production numbers must have shot up on the sports lines over the last several years in order to have this occur. No expert here, but how many PP watches are produced each year? Particularly the sports; Nautilus and aqua.

Sorry for your woes, I would ask for a refund and take a walk.

[red1108nyc]

It is time for you to move on from the brand. Sorry to hear of the agita buying a 50k luxury item has cost you in terms of time and emotion.

[srvrf]

Obviously any mechanical watch can have problems, but this is disheartening to see this come from what many perceive the premiere mass-production watchmaker in the world. I've had issues with my AP, VC, and Rolex. But despite sometimes frustrating problems, they always made it right. And I'll buy another one of those watches without hesitation. I don't understand why brands wouldn't have at least equal emphasis on the post-sales experience because that it by far the longest period of time and what creates repeat customers or those who "defect" to another brand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheBluePrince]

I was thinking you got a replacement refurb too. They'll send your original to someone else as a "new" watch was well. Refund time.

Sorry to hear about all your problems here, I would be just as mad.

[HorologyK]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

Wow, this thread has certainly affected my opinion of PP. Seems others on TRF have some issues too. Production numbers must have shot up on the sports lines over the last several years in order to have this occur. No expert here, but how many PP watches are produced each year? Particularly the sports; Nautilus and aqua.

Sorry for your woes, I would ask for a refund and take a walk.

I would not this or a few other isolated incidents turn you off of PP. It's still a great brand and with all brands, there are issues from time to time. I would love to hear PP side to this as there are always two sides to every story !!

[rodwatch69]

Some of you guys are speaking down to the OP as if its his fault.

Find another brand, PP isn't for You, etc..

Let's be clear, this is a hand made $50,000 watch. PP left the Geneva Seal years ago because they felt their own in house Quality Control was far higher. Now here we are with the simplest things getting past QC.

UNACCEPTABLE. The watch should be perfect when the customer opens that bag.
1. Because of the Price
2. Because of the reputation
3. Because of the extreme attention to detail that PP claims they have

Is the OP particular? Yes, he is and that is his right to not have an AD scratch his lugs, have nicked up markers, Exposed pins, over polished cases, etc..

If HE can see it then the guys who make thousands of watches a year should have seen it. They are MASS PRODUCING these pieces as quickly as they can without any concern for QC, detail or end product.

This has been an ongoing problem since 2009, around the time they abandoned the Geneva Seal and it hasn't gotten any better, it has gotten progressively worse.

Now, this is a PP forum and filled with PP fanboys and fanatics. Those of you with perfect watches and no need for service haven't any idea how the others feel. When you have a problem and have owned 2,3,6 PP's only to have one horrific experience, I think you too will understand why people sell them all and move on. Until that day comes, enjoy your perfectly running PP.

[texex91]

Originally Posted by rodwatch69

Some of you guys are speaking down to the OP as if its his fault.

Find another brand, PP isn't for You, etc..

First, I'm not a Patek 'fanboy' (but did I have any issues with any Patek's I've owned--no--including my 5990).

Second, it's simple, no matter what Patek does at this point, the bad taste is there, hence time to move on to another brand.

Third, 'mass producing' is a relative term. Versus Richard Mille yes, versus Rolex no. Patek's are hardly mass produced.

It's that simple. If offered a refund he should take it.

No harm no foul to OP.

[rodwatch69]

I don't think being called a fanboy is negative, and I didn't intend it to be. When I owned my PP's I was a fanboy. I am currently an Apple fanboy and buy all the new laptops and iPhones as soon as they are released. So, fanboy is just a big fan of a brand IMO.

I agree that the OP should get a refund, I felt that from the very beginning. I think PP could very easily have reversed this by escalating it and having QC check one watch thoroughly and ship it to the customer with a letter, or a tie or some other trinket that costs them nothing. THEN the customer feels he was catered to, was taken care of and treated like royalty, which is one of the reasons we buy a PP in the first place.

To be yelled at and insulted, then attempting to dupe him a second time with a watch in even worse condition is insulting.

I have actually written two other posts that the mods did not allow through because I think I am too new of a member but, I never thought PP would handle this correctly and I will use that as a blanket statement for anyone and everyone that has a problem with QC at PP. They just don't care, don't have the resources to hand hold or are simply incapable.

[martinr]

I have to agree with Paul, at this level and for this kind of money it's all about perception and the way we feel about the watches. If I were the OP I'd move on, Patek may get their act together or they may not, my feeling is that the talk about improving service times and QC at Patek is just talk, there are enough hard core collectors and happy owners to keep the brand going for many years to come and Patek knows this.

[jd57]

I feel fortunate that none of my Pateks have had problems, though not looking forward to 6+ months for routine service down the road. I am looking elsewhere for my next purchase(s) - my Langes are equally beautiful and as a brand they dont have all the negative press that PP has acquired over the last few years, so I will go in that direction.

[SMD]

In general it's not the issue/problem with any watch that is problematic. They will all have issues. It's how it's handled when the issue arises. The best IMHO is AP. PP could learn a lot.

[SubKing]

I so much appreciate all the members input here and I don't take offense to any of the advise what so ever.

My main goal by discussing this within this forum is to not only get advise, but maybe members will see things that I don't.

I also want to know if I am wrong for being bothered by these defects. But all the members have stated that they are not acceptable defects, so I have the confidence that I am not being overly picky or difficult. All of your opinions matter to me which is why I ask.

The brand has made me second guess myself for sure because of the attitude they show me, like I should keep the watch and be happy. But I'm not going to trade off one defect on one watch, for even bigger defects on another watch. Shouldn't have to be that way.

I love the 5990 and that's why I bought it. The design and functionality speak to me.

The customer service on both ends (my AD's and Pateks) have been more disappointing than the defective watches them selves. See, when someone speaks down to me, yells at me, or makes me feel like my cause is not just, this all feels way worse than the defective watch.

Now on the flip side, if I was receiving fair treatment, I would have faith in knowing that everyone is doing their best to help me and that would make me feel confident about the defective product and that it will get sorted.

Unfortunately that is not a luxury I have. I called Pat at HSWA yesterday and like I said, he sounded very irritated that I called him. At this point I did not know about the scratched markers/hour hand on the dial.. I asked him if he saw the ghost circles on the bracelet, he said "Yes, but that might be something that is acceptable under QC standards, but I can check if you would like".

So later on at night I sent a second email to him informing Pat that the watch markers and hand is scratched.. The lume on that marker is also a shade darker than the rest of the markers which is what drew my attention to it in the first place.

Now, here is a new problem I found last night before bed. I activated the chronograph function, I wanted to test the Fly back feature. So when I pressed the pusher for the sec hand to fly back, it didn't fly back to 0, it flew back to 5. So the second chrono hand does not reset properly at all. Again, something that was not a problem on my first watch.

This watch clearly looks like a refurb 100%.

I received an email from the owner of the AD last night as well. He was saying how he was upset because he doesn't want to break relationships, his goal is to create long term ones... It didn't seem like a sincere email at all and really didn't apologize one time for speaking to me the way he did.. I mean, forget about him scratching my watch, what about the way he literally yelled at me like a 14 year old throwing a tantrum?

I responded back saying that I cannot believe the way he acted and conducts business being the shop owner. I also informed him I am not keeping this watch and spoke of all the issues it has. So by now he should be fully aware of everything going on.


I know many are saying patek isn't for me and I should move on. I wonder if members mean that due to my bad luck time and time again with the watches, I should move on?

I hope people can understand the problems I am having. There are two sides to every story for sure, but the pictures I post of the constant defects these watches have should speak volumes on their own. I am not looking for issues nor am I being to picky. I admire my watches and all the details like we all do. But when there are defects that are so noticeable, its hard to accept a watch like that. I have clean AP's rolex's among others in my collection and not one of them has one of these issues that both these pateks have had.

I am very curious how quick and how well both patek and my AD are going to handle things this time around.
Yes, I could ask for a refund. I feel I am entitled to one at this point. But on the other hand, I also believe in the 3 strike rule...

Now, if they offer me a refund, I will take it. But if they feel that they can all get their jobs right, then I am willing to give them one more shot. But I won't deal with this forever.

I am curious as everyone in this section should be, as to how well patek can handle this escalating situation. If they do things the way they are supposed to, the way they have been trained to, then they should be able to turn this all around and make everything right.

If handled properly, I would be a return customer to both the AD and Patek. But they have to make things right and they have to be fair, in the same way I am trying to be fair with them.

I have been patient and shown restraint considering the poor service and poor product. Both patek and my AD need to step up and show me they actually care. If they don't, then not only will that speak volumes about them to all of us, but they will have one less customer.

[simongpaez]

I personally think you have been very patient and willing to work with them, I wouldn't give them the benefit of a strike 3, but it is a very personal thing, best of luck.

[HorologyK]

Originally Posted by SubKing

I so much appreciate all the members input here and I don't take offense to any of the advise what so ever.



My main goal by discussing this within this forum is to not only get advise, but maybe members will see things that I don't.



I also want to know if I am wrong for being bothered by these defects. But all the members have stated that they are not acceptable defects, so I have the confidence that I am not being overly picky or difficult. All of your opinions matter to me which is why I ask.



The brand has made me second guess myself for sure because of the attitude they show me, like I should keep the watch and be happy. But I'm not going to trade off one defect on one watch, for even bigger defects on another watch. Shouldn't have to be that way.



I love the 5990 and that's why I bought it. The design and functionality speak to me.



The customer service on both ends (my AD's and Pateks) have been more disappointing than the defective watches them selves. See, when someone speaks down to me, yells at me, or makes me feel like my cause is not just, this all feels way worse than the defective watch.



Now on the flip side, if I was receiving fair treatment, I would have faith in knowing that everyone is doing their best to help me and that would make me feel confident about the defective product and that it will get sorted.



Unfortunately that is not a luxury I have. I called Pat at HSWA yesterday and like I said, he sounded very irritated that I called him. At this point I did not know about the scratched markers/hour hand on the dial.. I asked him if he saw the ghost circles on the bracelet, he said "Yes, but that might be something that is acceptable under QC standards, but I can check if you would like".



So later on at night I sent a second email to him informing Pat that the watch markers and hand is scratched.. The lume on that marker is also a shade darker than the rest of the markers which is what drew my attention to it in the first place.



Now, here is a new problem I found last night before bed. I activated the chronograph function, I wanted to test the Fly back feature. So when I pressed the pusher for the sec hand to fly back, it didn't fly back to 0, it flew back to 5. So the second chrono hand does not reset properly at all. Again, something that was not a problem on my first watch.



This watch clearly looks like a refurb 100%.



I received an email from the owner of the AD last night as well. He was saying how he was upset because he doesn't want to break relationships, his goal is to create long term ones... It didn't seem like a sincere email at all and really didn't apologize one time for speaking to me the way he did.. I mean, forget about him scratching my watch, what about the way he literally yelled at me like a 14 year old throwing a tantrum?



I responded back saying that I cannot believe the way he acted and conducts business being the shop owner. I also informed him I am not keeping this watch and spoke of all the issues it has. So by now he should be fully aware of everything going on.





I know many are saying patek isn't for me and I should move on. I wonder if members mean that due to my bad luck time and time again with the watches, I should move on?



I hope people can understand the problems I am having. There are two sides to every story for sure, but the pictures I post of the constant defects these watches have should speak volumes on their own. I am not looking for issues nor am I being to picky. I admire my watches and all the details like we all do. But when there are defects that are so noticeable, its hard to accept a watch like that. I have clean AP's rolex's among others in my collection and not one of them has one of these issues that both these pateks have had.



I am very curious how quick and how well both patek and my AD are going to handle things this time around.

Yes, I could ask for a refund. I feel I am entitled to one at this point. But on the other hand, I also believe in the 3 strike rule...



Now, if they offer me a refund, I will take it. But if they feel that they can all get their jobs right, then I am willing to give them one more shot. But I won't deal with this forever.



I am curious as everyone in this section should be, as to how well patek can handle this escalating situation. If they do things the way they are supposed to, the way they have been trained to, then they should be able to turn this all around and make everything right.



If handled properly, I would be a return customer to both the AD and Patek. But they have to make things right and they have to be fair, in the same way I am trying to be fair with them.



I have been patient and shown restraint considering the poor service and poor product. Both patek and my AD need to step up and show me they actually care. If they don't, then not only will that speak volumes about them to all of us, but they will have one less customer.

When I said there were two sides to every story I should have added that I would be curious to what PP has to say ... However, the issues clearly lie with them, not you. They don't have much of a case since pictures speak volumes. I would ask for a refund and deal with another AD for this piece.

[PJ S]

Patek Philippe has created a new quality benchmark for its mechanical timepieces: the Patek Philippe Seal. This new emblem of horological excellence goes beyond any existing standards of the Swiss watch industry. Uniquely, the Patek Philippe Seal applies to the completely assembled watch as delivered to its owner.

http://www.patek.com/en/company/patek-philippe-seal/introduction

The Patek Philippe Seal: symbol of a world in which the exceptional becomes the rule.
Patek Philippe not only consummately masters all horological challenges, it is also unanimously appreciated for the exceptional quality and reliability of its timekeeping instruments. ..[snip].. As an independent, privately owned business, Patek Philippe has always defined its own quality criteria, recognized by the entire watchmaking community as the strictest ever compiled.

http://www.patek.com/en/company/patek-philippe-seal/introduction#2

To communicate these rigorous criteria and guarantee that they are respected, Patek Philippe has created a proprietary seal of quality.
The Patek Philippe Seal is a comprehensive emblem of excellence that applies to the completed and fully cased watch. It covers the movement, the case, the dial, the hands, the pushers and buttons, the straps and bracelets, the buckles and clasps, as well as all other components that contribute to the accuracy and aesthetic appeal of the watches. It takes technical, functional, and design-related aspects into account and also covers the visual appearance of the watch, its rate accuracy and dependability, as well as the quality of the customer service to which its owner is entitled.

http://www.patek.com/en/company/patek-philippe-seal/introduction#3

The production of a Patek Philippe timepiece surpasses all conventional standards. Every single detail is taken into consideration to achieve the best conceivable result with respect to quality, beauty, rate accuracy, and reliability. All the elements of a timepiece – including the movement, the inside and outside of the case, the dial, push pieces, and crowns, etc. – must be crafted to perfection and immaculately finished.

http://www.patek.com/en/company/patek-philippe-seal/the-watch#1

The appearance of all watch components is systematically assessed throughout the entire manufacturing process. Finished watches are subject to 100% scrutiny.

http://www.patek.com/en/company/patek-philippe-seal/the-watch#3

Numerous inspections performed in the course of all manufacturing phases guarantee that high-end technologies and traditional artisanal talents are consummately mastered.

http://www.patek.com/en/company/pate...ior-elements#1

Today, more than ever, “quality” and “fine workmanship” remain the watch- words for every aspect of Patek Philippe's production.

http://www.patek.com/en/company/values


That’s a lot of words used to try and convince people about something that should be able to be taken for granted, given the values involved!
For me, actions always speak louder than words – and two bites of the cherry is more than ample opportunity to demonstrate that they can walk the walk.
Let’s hope they don’t mess up the third chance to deliver what they claim, as above.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by PJ S

http://www.patek.com/en/company/patek-philippe-seal/introduction




http://www.patek.com/en/company/patek-philippe-seal/introduction#2




http://www.patek.com/en/company/patek-philippe-seal/introduction#3




http://www.patek.com/en/company/patek-philippe-seal/the-watch#1




http://www.patek.com/en/company/patek-philippe-seal/the-watch#3




http://www.patek.com/en/company/pate...ior-elements#1




http://www.patek.com/en/company/values


That’s a lot of words used to try and convince people about something that should be able to be taken for granted, given the values involved!
For me, actions always speak louder than words – and two bites of the cherry is more than ample opportunity to demonstrate that they can walk the walk.
Let’s hope they don’t mess up the third chance to deliver what they claim, as above.

Thanks for the above.

Given their history, I guess that alone is enough to make anyone believe anything they say. But you are right, actions speak louder than words.

They say in their own words, they finish the watches to perfection, but then they make me feel like I shouldn't expect what they promise, when I point out very apparent defects.

[Syed117]

Not a Patek owner and realistically might not be able to achieve one for several years.

That being said, I think a lot of the responses being thrown around are insulting.

Telling someone that the brand isn't for them implies that there is something wrong with them and not the brand.

That's insanity. No one should be saying that. There is absolutely no excuse for the way the OP has been treated. Both by PP and by his AD.

This is supposed to be a community of watch enthusiasts. I'm not in the position to do anything about it, but it seems crazy to me that someone here couldn't help the OP. It doesn't have to be a public thing, but I refuse to believe that there aren't at least a few members here who couldn't put some high level calls into Patek.

OP, I would honestly take a refund and walk away. You tried your best and the company let you down. Maybe try again in a few years if PP gets their act together. You didn't do anything wrong. Everyone here should have rallied behind you.