Patek Updates

[AK797]

5 years? You get less time for aggravated assault.

[MCMartiny]

Well, if Patek then at least also offered a 5 year warranty instead of the current measly (compared to others) 2 years

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Yip. Christies. 40 lots over 3 months I think

Gonna gag if there's another auction record with Patek themselves doing the bidding.

[RationalPragmatist]

Sounds like they're jumping from the frying pan into the fire with those kind of decisions.

[sechsgang]

They need to reduce the damn time it takes to do basic service to these watches...the other stuff is fine to work on but 6-9 months turn around time for a standard service is unacceptable when I can have a complete overhaul done on my Ulysse GMT Perpetual Platinum in under 6 months by UN...

[RUK]

This is how key reason for me wear the Patek less often that I'd like to. Wore it almost daily for three months and didnt worry about it. Then I thought I should be more careful because of the hassle of servicing it and the time it would take.

This thread is getting very interesting. Plenty of food for thought. I still very much believe in the brand and love my 5711 and will gladly buy another Patek. Judy hope they sort out the issues highlighted here.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by RUK

This is how key reason for me wear the Patek less often that I'd like to. Wore it almost daily for three months and didnt worry about it. Then I thought I should be more careful because of the hassle of servicing it and the time it would take.

This thread is getting very interesting. Plenty of food for thought. I still very much believe in the brand and love my 5711 and will gladly buy another Patek. Judy hope they sort out the issues highlighted here.

The watch needs to get serviced at calendar intervals (3-5 years which means 5 years!) If anything you should wear it more so you get the most out of it before it goes off for its extended Swiss holiday.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by jonathan17

Hmm.. I am just wondering if the warranty/papers does not prove ownership what would then? Sale receipt perhaps? I know keeping the warranty/papers might slowdown resellers but if I was sold my dream watch at a good price papers or not that watch is coming home (except stolen pieces of course)

The Certificate of Origin authenticates the watch and provides detail on movements, Serial numbers and is the 2 year guarantee. Proof of Ownersip is through the registration of those details with PP. so as I thought it's not a proof of ownership

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by sechsgang

They need to reduce the damn time it takes to do basic service to these watches...the other stuff is fine to work on but 6-9 months turn around time for a standard service is unacceptable when I can have a complete overhaul done on my Ulysse GMT Perpetual Platinum in under 6 months by UN...

You were lucky, my Freak was gone 17 months!


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[willski]

Originally Posted by Russell996

You were lucky, my Freak was gone 17 months!


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17 months! What on earth happened?


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[Finkalot]

I for one would support Patek keeping the papers for 5 years on all watches.

There have been 3 X 5167A watches allocated to Singapore in the last 4 months. Guess what? All 3 of them are owned by the same grey market dealer.

Every time he gets the watch, I get a friendly message asking if I want to purchase it from him. I had already promised my AD I would get the watch from them so have to keep passing on it every time.

Frustrated!!


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[lapince]

Originally Posted by AK797

5 years? You get less time for aggravated assault.

Originally Posted by Russell996

You were lucky, my Freak was gone 17 months!

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WOW that is totally crazy, what the hell happened for them to need 17 months??? Really unacceptable, I would go crazy at 8 months or more, but 17

Originally Posted by Finkalot

I for one would support Patek keeping the papers for 5 years on all watches.

There have been 3 X 5167A watches allocated to Singapore in the last 4 months. Guess what? All 3 of them are owned by the same grey market dealer.

Every time he gets the watch, I get a friendly message asking if I want to purchase it from him. I had already promised my AD I would get the watch from them so have to keep passing on it every time.

Frustrated!!
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That's nuts, so that means that overtime one arrives, a Patek AD sells it to this grey dealer, if you are right and it really is the ones allocated to SG, but if it really is the ones supposed to go to AD's that end up with this dealer there is a serious problem for sure, can't even imagine how it's possible.


Oh and one thing maybe Patek should do, is open a few more AD's in France, where only the Salon and Wempe in Paris are allowed to sell them, when you know the huge number of super rich guys on the South of France every year you really wonder what they are thinking

[Fiery]

Originally Posted by lapince

Oh and one thing maybe Patek should do, is open a few more AD's in France, where only the Salon and Wempe in Paris are allowed to sell them, when you know the huge number of super rich guys on the South of France every year you really wonder what they are thinking

My understanding is that Patek doesn't want to sell more watches. No, they actually want to sell less. Less watches, but to the "right" clients. Because right now, due to the unhealthy supply-demand situation on certain models, even the passionate collectors cannot buy a watch from ADs. Well, of course, they have inventories of unpopular models, but not for those that are hot cakes. And even when an AD gets a popular model, it may just end up in the hands of a grey dealer or a VIP client, rather than the next guy on the waiting list. Not to mention waiting lists are sometimes 3 or 5 years long already. So by the time you may get on top of the list, the model you signed up for will most likely no longer be in production. It's just ridiculous.

IMHO this whole issue could be solved much easier than to hold the papers hostage for 5 years. Patek itself should manage waiting lists, not the ADs. One client should be able to put his name on up to 3 or 5 waiting lists only, not on all of them. And when the time comes and the watch gets ready, it could be picked up in Geneva, or at the client's AD of choice. Above $100K/EUR100K or at the 2nd Patek purchased through this system, I'd offer a museum tour, free of charge. At the 3rd Patek purchased through this system by the same client, I'd offer a manufacture tour, free of charge.

Patek can keep managing clients' watch collection info using the existing registration system, and refuse putting guys on waiting lists who sell too many watches, are clearly flippers, or can be suspected of being dealers.

[Finkalot]

Originally Posted by lapince

WOW that is totally crazy, what the hell happened for them to need 17 months??? Really unacceptable, I would go crazy at 8 months or more, but 17







That's nuts, so that means that overtime one arrives, a Patek AD sells it to this grey dealer, if you are right and it really is the ones allocated to SG, but if it really is the ones supposed to go to AD's that end up with this dealer there is a serious problem for sure, can't even imagine how it's possible.





Oh and one thing maybe Patek should do, is open a few more AD's in France, where only the Salon and Wempe in Paris are allowed to sell them, when you know the huge number of super rich guys on the South of France every year you really wonder what they are thinking

I should have been clearer... The grey dealer has been buying up the 5711s/ 5712s/ 5167s over time from the AD itself. As far as I can tell, he places orders (paying upfront) every month. So whenever the watch comes to the AD (or any of their branches) it goes straight to this grey dealer. There is another AD chain that operates in Singapore, and they've stopped dealing with this grey dealer - I hope they get allocated one soon.


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[unknown]

Originally Posted by Finkalot

I for one would support Patek keeping the papers for 5 years on all watches.

There have been 3 X 5167A watches allocated to Singapore in the last 4 months. Guess what? All 3 of them are owned by the same grey market dealer.

Every time he gets the watch, I get a friendly message asking if I want to purchase it from him. I had already promised my AD I would get the watch from them so have to keep passing on it every time.

Frustrated!!


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If you or somebody else wants the 5167 on steel bracelet..... I can have one now at list and another one in October , also at list

[kultschar]

Originally Posted by Finkalot

I should have been clearer... The grey dealer has been buying up the 5711s/ 5712s/ 5167s over time from the AD itself. As far as I can tell, he places orders (paying upfront) every month. So whenever the watch comes to the AD (or any of their branches) it goes straight to this grey dealer.

Cant you report this to Patek HQ? Surely this would not be seen in a good way

[murcielago_boy]

There was a time that all Pateks involved waiting and patience and ALL held value well. Demand matched supply.

Now, overproduction means AD's are forced to offload excess stock to Grey Dealers through the back door. This stock then turns up everywhere at heavy discounts which creates a viscous circle, disincentivising collectors to go to their AD again, leaving more excess stock! Had they killed the grey dealers but giving their AD's limited stock based on reduced production, we'd all be going to AD's and values would be stable. Moreover the AD's would therefore be able to sell the more sought after pieces to bona fide, good customers because they'd know all of them.

Instead, modern Patek is now really a company all about:
Aquanaut, Nautilus (endless, endless conversations about the 5711A - I'm so bored already), 5131 and 5235.

The rest, (as good as they might be), aren't important.... who cares?
.......they can be picked up on Chrono24 at huge discounts to list and the GC/Minute repeaters are getting killed at auction. Meanwhile you have a 9 month wait for a case valet, and endless QC issues.

They think cutting production to 50,000 will solve this? or Withholding certificates? Ha!
It's a bloody mess.

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by murcielago_boy

There was a time that all Pateks involved waiting and patience and ALL held value well. Demand matched supply.

Now, overproduction means AD's are forced to offload excess stock to Grey Dealers through the back door. This stock then turns up everywhere at heavy discounts which creates a viscous circle, disincentivising collectors to go to their AD again, leaving more excess stock! Had they killed the grey dealers but giving their AD's limited stock based on reduced production, we'd all be going to AD's and values would be stable. Moreover the AD's would therefore be able to sell the more sought after pieces to bona fide, good customers because they'd know all of them.

Instead, modern Patek is now really a company all about:
Aquanaut, Nautilus (endless, endless conversations about the 5711A - I'm so bored already), 5131 and 5235.

The rest, (as good as they might be), aren't important.... who cares?
.......they can be picked up on Chrono24 at huge discounts to list and the GC/Minute repeaters are getting killed at auction. Meanwhile you have a 9 month wait for a case valet, and endless QC issues.

They think cutting production to 50,000 will solve this? or Withholding certificates? Ha!
It's a bloody mess.

In the old days when Patek produced less watches, I agree that gray dealers had less influence on the Patek watch market. But when the "new wealth" from emerging markets started buying watches in bulk and Patek started ramping up production, it was inevitable that the secondary market would be flooded with pieces that are now selling at a fraction of new watch prices. This is probably where we are now and Patek is trying to respond in its own way. The secondary market has become more global over the past 10 years as well, fueled by re-sellers networking with other re-sellers around the globe.

I agree that this forum places heavy emphasis on the Aquanaut and the Nautilus. But this is because people interested in Rolex come here and they see the Aquanaut and the Nautilus as a natural entry into the world of Patek watches. We know there are other online forums that cater to discussing more complicated Patek watches.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

In the old days when Patek produced less watches, I agree that gray dealers had less influence on the Patek watch market. But when the "new wealth" from emerging markets started buying watches in bulk and Patek started ramping up production, it was inevitable that the secondary market would be flooded with pieces that are now selling at a fraction of new watch prices. This is probably where we are now and Patek is trying to respond in its own way. The secondary market has become more global over the past 10 years as well, fueled by re-sellers networking with other re-sellers around the globe.

I agree that this forum places heavy emphasis on the Aquanaut and the Nautilus. But this is because people interested in Rolex come here and they see the Aquanaut and the Nautilus as a natural entry into the world of Patek watches. We know there are other online forums that cater to discussing more complicated Patek watches.

Agree with you. The fact it's about the 5167 and 5711 is actually around non availability not overproduction!! There is another thread wher the OP mentioned a 3 month service recently, that's totally acceptable to me

[AckAck]

Originally Posted by murcielago_boy

There was a time that all Pateks involved waiting and patience and ALL held value well. Demand matched supply.

Now, overproduction means AD's are forced to offload excess stock to Grey Dealers through the back door. This stock then turns up everywhere at heavy discounts which creates a viscous circle, disincentivising collectors to go to their AD again, leaving more excess stock! Had they killed the grey dealers but giving their AD's limited stock based on reduced production, we'd all be going to AD's and values would be stable. Moreover the AD's would therefore be able to sell the more sought after pieces to bona fide, good customers because they'd know all of them.

Instead, modern Patek is now really a company all about:
Aquanaut, Nautilus (endless, endless conversations about the 5711A - I'm so bored already), 5131 and 5235.

Well said.

The rest, (as good as they might be), aren't important.... who cares?
.......they can be picked up on Chrono24 at huge discounts to list and the GC/Minute repeaters are getting killed at auction. Meanwhile you have a 9 month wait for a case valet, and endless QC issues.

They think cutting production to 50,000 will solve this? or Withholding certificates? Ha!
It's a bloody mess.

Well said.

[sem]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

In the old days when Patek produced less watches, I agree that gray dealers had less influence on the Patek watch market. But when the "new wealth" from emerging markets started buying watches in bulk and Patek started ramping up production, it was inevitable that the secondary market would be flooded with pieces that are now selling at a fraction of new watch prices. This is probably where we are now and Patek is trying to respond in its own way. The secondary market has become more global over the past 10 years as well, fueled by re-sellers networking with other re-sellers around the globe.

I agree that this forum places heavy emphasis on the Aquanaut and the Nautilus. But this is because people interested in Rolex come here and they see the Aquanaut and the Nautilus as a natural entry into the world of Patek watches. We know there are other online forums that cater to discussing more complicated Patek watches.

Which forums?

[Finkalot]

Originally Posted by unknown

If you or somebody else wants the 5167 on steel bracelet..... I can have one now at list and another one in October , also at list

Alas I'm only keen on the 5167 with a tropical strap. Thanks for the offer though.

Originally Posted by kultschar

Cant you report this to Patek HQ? Surely this would not be seen in a good way

Not sure what I can complain about. The grey dealer is buying the watch from the AD directly. Think ADs have the right to sell to whomever they want. However, if Patek held the papers for 5 years then the grey dealer won't be buying watches any longer coz he can't flip them.



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[sechsgang]

Originally Posted by Russell996

You were lucky, my Freak was gone 17 months!


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YEOW. Sounds like they needed to tool/make/kill someone for parts for it...granted that is a completely special watch.

[kultschar]

Originally Posted by Finkalot

Alas I'm only keen on the 5167 with a tropical strap. Thanks for the offer though.




Not sure what I can complain about. The grey dealer is buying the watch from the AD directly. Think ADs have the right to sell to whomever they want. However, if Patek held the papers for 5 years then the grey dealer won't be buying watches any longer coz he can't flip them.



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Would have thought Patek HQ would be interested to know of one of their ADs were selling to a grey dealer on a regular basis who then in turn marked it up

[JayRobert]

Originally Posted by martinr

Thierry Stern is a nice guy and a great rep for the brand but they need a real CEO. The grey market and warranty cards are the least of their problems in my opinion.

What makes you think that he's not a real CEO? Your assessment about the grey market and warranty cards are based on what? Just a friendly question. He's the owner and it does appear as if Patek Philippe is doing pretty well.

[JayRobert]

Originally Posted by texex91

To be honest holding them for any period would be unacceptable IMHO.

Being humble does not include claiming yourself as humble.

[soundserious]

One issue is the need for this brand to not put the same movement in so many different watches. For example, do we really need the new chronograph caliber in every case metal with multiple dial options? And how many annual calendars does the world need? Obviously more.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by willski

17 months! What on earth happened?

Originally Posted by sechsgang

YEOW. Sounds like they needed to tool/make/kill someone for parts for it...granted that is a completely special watch.

To be fair to UN it was at the time they had first found/admitted to faults with the Dual 'Direct' escapement fitted to the original Freak (1) - the Freak 28,800 (2) had just been introduced with a completely new Dual 'Indirect' escapement, larger size case and higher oscillation count. A number of the original Freaks were suffering intermittent stops and these had been repaired and returned to owners without solving the problem. Mine went in for a service and was the first to be upgraded to 1.5 status I believe - this involved a unique version of the Dual Indirect escapement being designed and fitted that is both smaller and runs slower at 21,600 than all other Dual Indirect escapements fitted to the Freak 2 onwards - so yes a lot of design and manufacturing work was needed for a very small number of pieces. Don't know the number of original Freaks produced but hats off to UN to stand behind their products and go to these extreme lengths for a couple of dozen pieces - it was all done at no cost!
Never missed a beat since and is still one of my favourite pieces!


http://www.tp178.com/mh/freak_works/freak_works.html

http://www.tp178.com/mh/un_freak2/un_freak2.html

[Chasseur]

Originally Posted by JayRobert

What makes you think that he's not a real CEO? Your assessment about the grey market and warranty cards are based on what? Just a friendly question. He's the owner and it does appear as if Patek Philippe is doing pretty well.

Perhaps only a legitimate concern

[willski]

Originally Posted by Russell996

To be fair to UN it was at the time they had first found/admitted to faults with the Dual 'Direct' escapement fitted to the original Freak (1) - the Freak 28,800 (2) had just been introduced with a completely new Dual 'Indirect' escapement, larger size case and higher oscillation count. A number of the original Freaks were suffering intermittent stops and these had been repaired and returned to owners without solving the problem. Mine went in for a service and was the first to be upgraded to 1.5 status I believe - this involved a unique version of the Dual Indirect escapement being designed and fitted that is both smaller and runs slower at 21,600 than all other Dual Indirect escapements fitted to the Freak 2 onwards - so yes a lot of design and manufacturing work was needed for a very small number of pieces. Don't know the number of original Freaks produced but hats off to UN to stand behind their products and go to these extreme lengths for a couple of dozen pieces - it was all done at no cost!
Never missed a beat since and is still one of my favourite pieces!


http://www.tp178.com/mh/freak_works/freak_works.html

http://www.tp178.com/mh/un_freak2/un_freak2.html

It's a long wait but the explanation reflects favorably on UN.

The freak is such a great watch - please continue to share pics of this pretty rare beauty!


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