Patek Updates

[fungo]

Off topic, how to tell time with that UN piece? I bet you get asked a lot while wearing it. Good conversational piece. I can only imagine, it takes time (no pun tended) to get used to

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by fungo

Off topic, how to tell time with that UN piece? I bet you get asked a lot while wearing it. Good conversational piece. I can only imagine, it takes time (no pun tended) to get used to

LOL. The picture makes it look a lot more difficult than it is - the time being 2.10 means the minute hand is covering the hour hand!
Better shot for reading the time. 10.33

[fungo]

That's a better pic. Now i see it. For a while I thought it was one of those watches you need a PhD to understand.

[Sam Philip]

Papers were not retained on my recent purchase but I was told now the papers were pre-printed before dispatch.

[kneedeep]

"E). Nautilus 40th will be underwhelming. PP just had 175 and 40 not that important. They trying to do nothing but consumers expect a lot so will be 2 models but expect to be underwhelmed. A request for a 5711P as an anniversary piece declined by Geneva already."

Could be exciting IMO if PP introduced a hacking 324 SC movement for the 40th Nautilus and while they are at it increased the power reserve to 60 hours. I'd be interested in one of those.

[KarlS]

My guess is a PC

[conkers]

5990P blue dial

[jonathan17]

Originally Posted by conkers

5990P blue dial

If the 5990P will have the blue dial similar to the 5711P that will be awesome roger

[codecow]

My AD confirmed they got a letter from Patek announcing lower production.

[willski]

Originally Posted by codecow

My AD confirmed they got a letter from Patek announcing lower production.

Across all models of focusing on low/high end in particular?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[codecow]

Originally Posted by willski

Across all models of focusing on low/high end in particular?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The AD didn't say.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by willski

Across all models of focusing on low/high end in particular?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would be interesting to know if all will be produced less, even the very hard/impossible to get pieces, 5711/5167/....... or only the ones that don't have a big demand, the 2 pieces I wrote are just impossible to get in France and other places, I know a guy who's waiting almost 4 years for a 5711, here people either get lucky or in some way get a good spot on a list and have one quickly enough, but for most "normal" people it's mission impossible to get one through an AD at retail, and not only the 5711...

[kneedeep]

Originally Posted by KarlS

My guess is a PC

if a PC Nautilus

[codecow]

Originally Posted by lapince

Would be interesting to know if all will be produced less, even the very hard/impossible to get pieces, 5711/5167/....... or only the ones that don't have a big demand, the 2 pieces I wrote are just impossible to get in France and other places, I know a guy who's waiting almost 4 years for a 5711, here people either get lucky or in some way get a good spot on a list and have one quickly enough, but for most "normal" people it's mission impossible to get one through an AD at retail, and not only the 5711...

On the 5711 I was told I could get one pretty easily even now, so I think it depends on the size of the AD and their history with Patek and of course as you say how good of a client you are for the AD. I think a client who had never purchased anything could probably never get a 5711 from my AD, too many customers they could email and immediately sell it. 5131R no way, 2 years and counting...

[Moloch]

There are definitely problems with current distribution model when past Patek customers from the same AD has to wait months (or longer) for a reference when that exact reference is readily available from so many gray market dealers. This is me speaking from a personal experience. I'm in favor of anything Patek can do to remediate this.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by Moloch

There are definitely problems with current distribution model when past Patek customers from the same AD has to wait months (or longer) for a reference when that exact reference is readily available from so many gray market dealers. This is me speaking from a personal experience. I'm in favor of anything Patek can do to remediate this.

Whatever the brand you will always have pieces on the grey market, only difference with Patek is that some pieces sell for more on grey market than through AD, but same for the ceramic Daytona, the day when it won't be the case will be when your Patek will cost much less on grey market than at retail, sorry but I'm happy to have very hard to get pieces which cost more then what I paid for them, so yeah you need to have connections, prior purchases or luck to get some pieces, if it wasn't the case I would probably have 1-2 PP and not 3 sure and maybe a fourth if I can get a 5131, I am on a good spot for a 5711, but prior to that I bought a 5712 and 5167R, you have to pay to play, and I don't want to buy watches which loose 40-60% of retail once I go out of the AD, so I'm quite happy with the present system even if it's maybe not super fair for some...

[Moloch]

Originally Posted by lapince

Whatever the brand you will always have pieces on the grey market, only difference with Patek is that some pieces sell for more on grey market than through AD, but same for the ceramic Daytona, the day when it won't be the case will be when your Patek will cost much less on grey market than at retail, sorry but I'm happy to have very hard to get pieces which cost more then what I paid for them, so yeah you need to have connections, prior purchases or luck to get some pieces, if it wasn't the case I would probably have 1-2 PP and not 3 sure and maybe a fourth if I can get a 5131, I am on a good spot for a 5711, but prior to that I bought a 5712 and 5167R, you have to pay to play, and I don't want to buy watches which loose 40-60% of retail once I go out of the AD, so I'm quite happy with the present system even if it's maybe not super fair for some...

Is not that I can't get any pieces I want. Is that there are far more for sale in new condition in the gray market than legitimate dealers. Who are the ADs dumping them straight to the gray market when customers on the waiting lists of other dealers.

What Patek could do is to create a system to connect ADs together so that they can trade references they can't move in their market but might be more in demand in others. Or launch a sting operation to expose ADs who dumps them to the gray market and remove them as a AD.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Moloch

Is not that I can't get any pieces I want. Is that there are far more for sale in new condition in the gray market than legitimate dealers. Who are the ADs dumping them straight to the gray market when customers on the waiting lists of other dealers.

What Patek could do is to create a system to connect ADs together so that they can trade references they can't move in their market but might be more in demand in others. Or launch a sting operation to expose ADs who dumps them to the gray market and remove them as a AD.

[lapince]

As I understand very often an AD can't really survive without the grey market, though I am surprised that many high in demand pieces are found at grey dealers sealed, at the same time it makes it possible for first time Patek clients to get some pieces like the 5711 or 5167, for a little more than retail but these are pieces that would be impossible to get for many first time Patek buyers, so it kind of evens the game, through AD no way but with a premium ok.
Not talking about some pieces like the 5131 which go for insane premiums, but other good pieces, and for many other pieces the grey market permits you to get really good prices that you wouldn't get through an AD as a first time buyer, especially if you have no intention of ever getting another PP than the one you are getting, there are some anomalies but basically I can't say that I am for changes, many watches I got in the past were from personal sellers or from pros on the grey market, most watches outside of PP and Rolex need to be gotten on the grey market as the best deals are through there, as an AD will never make you a great price on most watches, I think the system works but is not perfect, at the same time what is in this world...
I am getting 3-4 Pateks this year and the next, all through an AD, but for this I need to go to Switzerland, as it is impossible, literally, to get the 5712 and 5711 in France at an AD, thanks to a member here I was put in touch with this very cool Patek AD, but without this I would have been happy to get these watches on the grey market, even if both of them often sell for a premium, ok the 5711 always but the 5712 is starting as well to sell over retail, so it makes it possible for people who are from certain countries to get the pieces they want, and not wait for ages on a list, meaning that often they will never get the desired watch at all, if to take everything into consideration I find it quite good that the grey market makes that possible...
Also I think that sometimes individual buyers get a piece like the 5711 or others from an AD and sell it to a grey dealer for a few K benefit, it's called free market, I can understand if some AD's who really exaggerate and sell too many watches to grey dealers get punished, but just the ones who are dumping too many pieces, not the other AD's.

But I totally agree with this proposition "What Patek could do is to create a system to connect ADs together so that they can trade references they can't move in their market but might be more in demand in others", the problem is that Patek allocates not because of demand but for each market, and yes this would be a great idea indeed

[lapince]

What kills me is not really the problems of grey dealers and I don't know what, but more the fact that some collectors have all the different 5131's for example, since it's basically THE hard to get Patek of the moment, which means that they already have a lot of them, so basically they won't be worn, when some guys who want only one will never get one for retail, I think that when you have one 5131 Patek should consider that it's enough and give others to other clients.
This guy for example who has all of them: http://www.watchprosite.com/page-wf....open_bLoB_s-0/
I'm absolutely not jealous but this gets on my nerves more than some problems with grey dealers and other things, these kind of hard to get watches are a reward in a way, but once a client got his reward it should be to the next one...

[KarlS]

i am jealous

[lapince]

Originally Posted by KarlS

i am jealous

[Jetkopite]

Originally Posted by lapince

What kills me is not really the problems of grey dealers and I don't know what, but more the fact that some collectors have all the different 5131's for example, since it's basically THE hard to get Patek of the moment, which means that they already have a lot of them, so basically they won't be worn, when some guys who want only one will never get one for retail, I think that when you have one 5131 Patek should consider that it's enough and give others to other clients.
This guy for example who has all of them: http://www.watchprosite.com/page-wf....open_bLoB_s-0/
I'm absolutely not jealous but this gets on my nerves more than some problems with grey dealers and other things, these kind of hard to get watches are a reward in a way, but once a client got his reward it should be to the next one...

I dont agree with you my friend, if a collector has spent many millions at Patek and chooses to have the 5131G/J and R I see nothing wrong with them being rewarded these pieces and thats coming from someone who spent $30K over retail to get a 5131R but as you say you have to pay to play..
A friend who works at the Patek Salon in Geneva told me there are collectors who spent upto $2m there and still waiting for the 5131R so I would be very surprised if you get one at retail from Geneva having bought a couple Pateks there and on the list for another 2...

[jonathan17]

I think if we are talking about the 5131 reference the ideo of getting it for retail is definitely out the door.

That's ok, i think the next step is getting it at a good price closest to retail and have it as soon as possible to enjoy this beautiful watch.

Thinking how many will the 5131R run for and if we will be seeing a 5131P in the future?

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by lapince

What kills me is not really the problems of grey dealers and I don't know what, but more the fact that some collectors have all the different 5131's for example, since it's basically THE hard to get Patek of the moment, which means that they already have a lot of them, so basically they won't be worn, when some guys who want only one will never get one for retail, I think that when you have one 5131 Patek should consider that it's enough and give others to other clients.
This guy for example who has all of them: http://www.watchprosite.com/page-wf....open_bLoB_s-0/
I'm absolutely not jealous but this gets on my nerves more than some problems with grey dealers and other things, these kind of hard to get watches are a reward in a way, but once a client got his reward it should be to the next one...

Originally Posted by Jetkopite

I dont agree with you my friend, if a collector has spent many millions at Patek and chooses to have the 5131G/J and R I see nothing wrong with them being rewarded these pieces and thats coming from someone who spent $30K over retail to get a 5131R but as you say you have to pay to play..
A friend who works at the Patek Salon in Geneva told me there are collectors who spent upto $2m there and still waiting for the 5131R so I would be very surprised if you get one at retail from Geneva having bought a couple Pateks there and on the list for another 2...

I think there are regular watch enthusiasts and then there are mega-collectors.

If I were to speculate on the mega collectors, they are the ones purchasing minute repeaters and getting private VIP invites at Basel to meet with the Sterns and they already own other enamel dial watches (e.g. 5077), marquetry dial watches and hand engraved cases. And most of these people have been collecting Patek watches for 20-30+ years.

Is it unfair for Patek Salons/AD to allocate the 5131 to these mega collectors and not to an average watch enthusiast? As Jetkopite mentioned, if you *really* want a 5131, they are easily available on the secondary market at a premium. However I wouldn't lose hope completely as there are people who get allocated a 5131 with much smaller Patek collections.

[KarlS]

My 50c.
1). The 5131 is not a LE. It's retail is £44750 which makes it cheaper than a 5930 and 5170 as an example. Supply and demand is unbalanced and hence the huge premium. Increase the retail price to £60 000 and maintain supply and you will quickly see the grey market drop off as existing people on the waiting list will drop off and flippers will see no real financial advantage. We can then moan how a watch that even PP thinks is worth £46 can be worth 30% more!,
2). The very fact that a person who spends $2 million doesn't automatically get a 5131 shows that PP are trying a more egalatarian approach. It doesn't mean the guy spending $10 mil gets as many as he wants!;
3). PP has a balancing act in giving good customers access to limited supply pieces to thank them for their patronage. Do they want to do this as a financial subsidy by encouraging flipping? I don't think so....otherwise just start a loyalty program and have tiers!!! There are significant collections in this region where watches are like stamps, you get each model in each metal because you can! They are not double sealed and kept in safes for the intent to sell later - those are not collectors they are investors!
4). Maybe PP can acknowledge investors and allow them sealed boxes but that implies you won't sell them tomorrow!! If you do you are not an investor but a flipper! If you an investor then conditions may apply on time, papers etc...
I can think of hundreds of ways this can be done and there is no one way to keep everyone happy. And yes as some will know I am on the list for the 5131R not because I want the R but I want the watch after R...the P or the 5231P or whatever else but you need to be on a list to stand a chance even if it's 6 years!! RussellW is proof to tenacity!!
The 5575 and 5131 carry similar prices yet there are only 1300, 5575 and I guarantee far more 5131's in circulation and increasing everyday. Some people on the list wouldn't be on the list if they couldn't flip it.

[Chasseur]

Originally Posted by KarlS

My 50c.
1). The 5131 is not a LE. It's retail is £44750 which makes it cheaper than a 5930 and 5170 as an example. Supply and demand is unbalanced and hence the huge premium. Increase the retail price to £60 000 and maintain supply and you will quickly see the grey market drop off as existing people on the waiting list will drop off and flippers will see no real financial advantage. We can then moan how a watch that even PP thinks is worth £46 can be worth 30% more!,
2). The very fact that a person who spends $2 million doesn't automatically get a 5131 shows that PP are trying a more egalatarian approach. It doesn't mean the guy spending $10 mil gets as many as he wants!;
3). PP has a balancing act in giving good customers access to limited supply pieces to thank them for their patronage. Do they want to do this as a financial subsidy by encouraging flipping? I don't think so....otherwise just start a loyalty program and have tiers!!! There are significant collections in this region where watches are like stamps, you get each model in each metal because you can! They are not double sealed and kept in safes for the intent to sell later - those are not collectors they are investors!
4). Maybe PP can acknowledge investors and allow them sealed boxes but that implies you won't sell them tomorrow!! If you do you are not an investor but a flipper! If you an investor then conditions may apply on time, papers etc...
I can think of hundreds of ways this can be done and there is no one way to keep everyone happy. And yes as some will know I am on the list for the 5131R not because I want the R but I want the watch after R...the P or the 5231P or whatever else but you need to be on a list to stand a chance even if it's 6 years!! RussellW is proof to tenacity!!
The 5575 and 5131 carry similar prices yet there are only 1300, 5575 and I guarantee far more 5131's in circulation and increasing everyday. Some people on the list wouldn't be on the list if they couldn't flip it.

+1

[lapince]

Originally Posted by Jetkopite

I dont agree with you my friend, if a collector has spent many millions at Patek and chooses to have the 5131G/J and R I see nothing wrong with them being rewarded these pieces and thats coming from someone who spent $30K over retail to get a 5131R but as you say you have to pay to play..
A friend who works at the Patek Salon in Geneva told me there are collectors who spent upto $2m there and still waiting for the 5131R so I would be very surprised if you get one at retail from Geneva having bought a couple Pateks there and on the list for another 2...

I understand, but some have gotten one at the first purchase, of course like many things in life it's often about connections and money, what doesn't surprise me one bit though is that big collectors who spent huge sums are waiting for one in Geneva or Paris Salon, to be honest if you as a first time buyer go to the Paris Salon and try to get on the list for not even a 5711 but a 5712 or a 5167, I'll buy you a good diner if they put you on it, they don't take anyone for ANY SS Nautilus or the 5167, the SS 5164 was available on the spot when I went, it's not in huge demand, same for 5960-1A, but all the other SS Pateks are impossible to get, and the stories where guys wait years for a 5711 are true, I know one who is approaching 4 years soon, they didn't even want to put me on the list for a 5712, if you want hard to get pieces you don't go to big AD's or the Salons, you go to the small ones.

But for me if one collector got one 5131 I can't understand how he got 2 more, especially when so many people want one, but hey that's life, I guess the guy is a good client of some small AD who doesn't have big demand for such pieces, at least what is good in your case is that you paid only 30K over retail, you got a good deal for a new sealed one, plus I prefer the R, only version that doesn't have Riyadh and Karachi on the dial, maybe it's stupid but it's the kind of cities which I prefer not to have, Cairo and Dubai is much nicer.

Anyways I just said I am on the list for one, like many people here, probability is I won't get one, but you never know

[lapince]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

Is it unfair for Patek Salons/AD to allocate the 5131 to these mega collectors and not to an average watch enthusiast?

No it's not unfair, I just find unfair to allocate 3 to the same guy, even if it's a little different due to metal and dial changes, but of course I understand that brands like Patek need to treat the mega collectors like ultra VIP, but I always find a little stupid the idea of a guy owning I don't know how many watches, most of them being NEVER worn, sitting in a safe, and in the best case being sometimes taken out to be worn a few times a year, but that's just me...

Originally Posted by KarlS

My 50c.
1). The 5131 is not a LE. It's retail is £44750 which makes it cheaper than a 5930 and 5170 as an example. Supply and demand is unbalanced and hence the huge premium. Increase the retail price to £60 000 and maintain supply and you will quickly see the grey market drop off as existing people on the waiting list will drop off and flippers will see no real financial advantage. We can then moan how a watch that even PP thinks is worth £46 can be worth 30% more!,
2). The very fact that a person who spends $2 million doesn't automatically get a 5131 shows that PP are trying a more egalatarian approach. It doesn't mean the guy spending $10 mil gets as many as he wants!;
3). PP has a balancing act in giving good customers access to limited supply pieces to thank them for their patronage. Do they want to do this as a financial subsidy by encouraging flipping? I don't think so....otherwise just start a loyalty program and have tiers!!! There are significant collections in this region where watches are like stamps, you get each model in each metal because you can! They are not double sealed and kept in safes for the intent to sell later - those are not collectors they are investors!
4). Maybe PP can acknowledge investors and allow them sealed boxes but that implies you won't sell them tomorrow!! If you do you are not an investor but a flipper! If you an investor then conditions may apply on time, papers etc...
I can think of hundreds of ways this can be done and there is no one way to keep everyone happy. And yes as some will know I am on the list for the 5131R not because I want the R but I want the watch after R...the P or the 5231P or whatever else but you need to be on a list to stand a chance even if it's 6 years!! RussellW is proof to tenacity!!
The 5575 and 5131 carry similar prices yet there are only 1300, 5575 and I guarantee far more 5131's in circulation and increasing everyday. Some people on the list wouldn't be on the list if they couldn't flip it.

Very true

[Jetkopite]

Originally Posted by lapince

I understand, but some have gotten one at the first purchase, of course like many things in life it's about connections and money, what doesn't surprise me one bit though is that big collectors who spent huge sums are waiting for one in Geneva or Paris Salon, to be honest if you as a first time buyer go to the Paris Salon and try to get on the list for not even a 5711 but a 5712 or a 5167, I'll buy you a good diner if they put you on it, they don't take anyone for ANY SS Nautilus or the 5167, the SS 5164 was available on the spot when I went, it's not in huge demand, same for 5960-1A, but all the other SS Pateks are impossible to get, and the stories where guys wait years for a 5711 are true, I know one who is approaching 4 years soon, they didn't even want to put me on the list for a 5712, if you want hard to get pieces you don't go to big AD's or the Salons, you go to the small ones.

But for me if one collector got one 5131 I can't understand how he got 2 more, especially when so many people want one, but hey that's life, I guess the guy is a good client of some small AD who doesn't have big demand for such pieces, at least what is good in your case is that you paid only 30K over retail, you got a good deal for a new sealed one, plus I prefer the R, only version that doesn't have Riyadh and Karachi on the dial, maybe it's stupid but it's the kind of cities which I prefer not to have, Cairo and Dubai is much nicer.

Anyways I just said I am on the list for one, like many people here, probability is I won't get one, but you never know

I will be following your journey to see i you get the 5131R my friend, you never know but from my searches and even writing to Mr Stern who actually replied back personally and signed it and told me the 5131R is such an in demand piece and a very rare and special piece that he cant help me and advised me to develop a relationship with my AD which we all know.

I will be writing to him again to advise him of my journey to the 5131R via the grey market and say how dissapointed I am to have to go this way to get a piece that I am looking to wear and enjoy for years rather than put it in a safe sealed to profit from it.. lol..