Rolex or Grand Seiko. Part 2

[caryyee]

I've just wandered down to Salera's, a few hundred meters from work, who would have thought there would be an AD for Grand Seiko's so close to me???

They only had a small selection in stock, including a GMT, and chronograph and a normal date model. I checked out the black dialed SS date model SBGH005 and the white dialed titanium white dialed power reserve Spring Drive model SBGA0011. Wow, this is the first time I've seen a Grand Seiko in person, and they are definitely a work of art. Extremely beautiful and elegant, I could happily wear one of those on my wrist. Super incognito, no one at all would know that they almost cost as much DateJust! RRP is exactly $8k, competitive with the Japanese price I was told by the salesperson. I asked re a discount, they said they could move a little bit on price, but not much as the price is on par with the Japanese price. In terms of servicing, they said there was an authorsied service center in Sydney.

My impressions? Definitely gorgeous, definitely extremely well made, definitely a watch I'd love to wear, but hmmmm, at AUD$8k , I could spend slightly less than $2k more (at Australian RRP) and get a Sub which would be almost money in the back should I wish to sell at a later stage. For that AUD$8k, I could also buy a Planet Ocean or a Speedy moonwatch with $2-3k spare change left over. Hmmmm ....

Apologies for the low quality pics, from my iPhone 4 ...

[bhall41]

Congratulations! Fantastic hi-beat model, and I love the blued seconds hand. Classic and beautiful. Until very recently I owned a SBGR 051 - I can attest to the fact that the workmanship and finish are top notch. I was sad to let mine go.

Just noticed that a couple of the other posters, including the OP, are from Melbourne: greetings guys!

[caryyee]

Originally Posted by bhall41

Congratulations! Fantastic hi-beat model, and I love the blued seconds hand. Classic and beautiful. Until very recently I owned a SBGR 051 - I can attest to the fact that the workmanship and finish are top notch. I was sad to let mine go.

Just noticed that a couple of the other posters, including the OP, are from Melbourne: greetings guys!

Hello fellow Melbournian!!!

May I ask why you had to let your Grand Seiko go?? I may have bought it myself, it's kinda hard for me to cough up AU$8k on a brand new Seiko, and Salera's here in Melb aren't really prepared to discount at all.

[Scotto]

Hi all, I'm new here and coming to this thread late. Before I comment I should point out that I only wish I had a nice top of the line mechanical watch, until then I'll wear what I got, make comments, take corrections to said comments, ask questions, and learn and grow.
as for the GS SBGH013 Congradulations, THAT is a great watch! I have no idea about the Lexus LFA.
As for Top of the line Seiko verses Rolex, someone please correct me if I'm wrong but Rolex doesn't even make their own movements, they buy them from ETA (mostly) which sells the same movements to other watch makers/assemblers.
I do not want to bash Rolex or Swiss made movements but it seems to me that those are the ones that people buy to get brand recognition oohs and ahs.
Seiko suffers from too many people being familiar with too many seikos looking like they were bought out of one of those bubble gum machines that dispenses toys in plastic egg cases. Seriously, what is up with those old diving watches?
Let's not forget that many years ago, off the shelf production Seikos were winning awards away from handbuilt swiss works of art. The GS SBGH013 is just such a watch.

[Highland Ranger]

Originally Posted by Scotto

As for Top of the line Seiko verses Rolex, someone please correct me if I'm wrong but Rolex doesn't even make their own movements, they buy them from ETA (mostly) which sells the same movements to other watch makers/assemblers.

The Tudor line uses eta movements. The Rolex branded watches use in house movements not eta.

[incontrol]

Sorry I am late to this thread! Congrats on a great watch! Mine says hello!

[lorsban]

These days, more people are starting to "get" what the GS line is about. This is evidenced by the higher resale prices they're getting as compared to the likes of Omega and even Rolex. The GS'es being sold in the marketplace in the local site I frequent, get sold at good prices Very quickly.

I definitely wouldn't mind having one myself. Best value quality timepieces you can get these days.

[Resawang]

I already saw My friends gs... Amazingly... Thats watch is very2 good in finishing... Very smooth... And very perfect in every detail...
Now i am understand why this watch have a high price... Very artistic...
This watch will be my next wishlist...

[vintagewaferthin]

i think that the gs seikos are great, and i definatly have one on my wishlist.

[drhr]

Kinda late to the GS party but now that I'm here, sure am enjoying myself. Great pieces, outstanding value . . . .

[lorsban]

Originally Posted by padi56

Great looking watch and IMHO one of the finest mechanical movements made today.The Hi beat is very accurate like all the high end Seiko range,and tested to a higher standard than the Swiss COSC.But afraid today many just wear a brand and see Seiko as a lesser brand which its definitely not.And IMHO its a better watch and movement than many of the high end Swiss mass produced watches today.Now the Seiko Grand they are hand built to a very high standard, and many today have no idea about movements in general. Plus many have no idea even how a mechanical movement works and only wear a name on the dial.

Agree 100%.

I got to handle a few, a high beat, dual time, and a normal auto. I couldn't see the finish because it was covered in plastic but I could tell that the watches are of an extremely high caliber (no pun intended). Definitely better than Rolex.

Arguably, the best value to quality ratio available today. It's just a huge shame that Seiko made a name for itself in the extreme low end and 99% of the consumers still see them as a low end company and not the innovative giants they really are.

I wonder how it would've been if Seiko went the Lexus > Toyota or Infinity > Nissan route? I suspect that if they had rebranded the GS, they would've sold better outside Japan.

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[Farnsy]

Now if we are asking Rolex or Grand Seiko... which is the question, I'd still say Rolex all the way, in every way. That's my opinion. Not that the seiko isn't as good, it is, and it's an amazing watch, and better value.. But Rolex has the name which matters to some people, not to others. I still like how Rolex looks better, and the crown logo is just boss (lol). But you say you already have a rolex, so there ya go, add a seiko to the collection and be happy, great watch. I love everything japanese, especially the women! I may grab a GS... one day! But I gotta save for a breitling navitimer or montbrillant first

[lorsban]

Originally Posted by Farnsy

Now if we are asking Rolex or Grand Seiko... which is the question, I'd still say Rolex all the way, in every way. That's my opinion. Not that the seiko isn't as good, it is, and it's an amazing watch, and better value.. But Rolex has the name which matters to some people, not to others. I still like how Rolex looks better, and the crown logo is just boss (lol). But you say you already have a rolex, so there ya go, add a seiko to the collection and be happy, great watch. I love everything japanese, especially the women! I may grab a GS... one day! But I gotta save for a breitling navitimer or montbrillant first

Rolex only beats Grand Seiko in 2 aspects: Resale and Service.

Actually, Rolex beats everybody in those two categories, so its no surprise. As for quality, pricing and innovation, Grand Seiko hands down. If GS was from a known Swiss brand, it would sell upwards of $10,000 for their basic auto. If Rolex was a Japanese brand, it would sell for less than GS now.

Won't talk about style because that's subjective.

But, if I were to pick between the two, I would still go with Rolex. Servicing is very important to me and I understand GS service is costly. Rolex, on the other hand charges very reasonably and they're quick.

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[caryyee]

Grand Seiko's are an awesome watch, but it would be highly unlikely they'd be anyone's first nice watch. People looking to get into a luxury watch would go for a luxury brand first. ie Rolex. Then another Rolex. And another. Then they might consider an AP, a PP, perhaps a VC or a Lange. At that stage, they're mature enough to appreciate a Grand Seiko.

Just my opinion :-)

[tigerpac]

I wouldn't say Rolex beats everyone in service (nor PP or ALS for resale) but in the service field, they won't service watches over 50 years old. This can be a major concern if you want to pass down or were passed down a watch from one generation to the next.

The service is top notch, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it has everybody beat.

Originally Posted by lorsban

Rolex only beats Grand Seiko in 2 aspects: Resale and Service.

Actually, Rolex beats everybody in those two categories, so its no surprise. As for quality, pricing and innovation, Grand Seiko hands down. If GS was from a known Swiss brand, it would sell upwards of $10,000 for their basic auto. If Rolex was a Japanese brand, it would sell for less than GS now.

Won't talk about style because that's subjective.

But, if I were to pick between the two, I would still go with Rolex. Servicing is very important to me and I understand GS service is costly. Rolex, on the other hand charges very reasonably and they're quick.

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[lorsban]

Originally Posted by tigerpac

I wouldn't say Rolex beats everyone in service (nor PP or ALS for resale) but in the service field, they won't service watches over 50 years old. This can be a major concern if you want to pass down or were passed down a watch from one generation to the next.

The service is top notch, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it has everybody beat.

Sorry, I should've mentioned that I've only dealt with service centers in the Philippines, Singapore and HK and so far, in all three places, Rolex servicing has proven to be both timely, and very reasonably priced. For example, I had a crystal/bezel insert/gasket replacement, plus overhaul/buffing for a 16613 and all I was charged was about $380. I also brought in a YM and was quoted $240. Both jobs done in 2 weeks. In my opinion, that's excellent. Everybody else either charges much more or takes longer to get the job done.

But, you're right about the 50 year limit. It blows. Hopefully, a good parts manufacturer will start making viable parts for old Rolexes.

In terms of resale, again, I'm talking about the Rolex resale market in those countries mentioned and it has always been great. Even 2nd hand shops (in HK at least) are willing to buy any Rolex for 85% market value. Even AP gets a little less at about 80%. That's in second hand shops, if you sell on your own, you can get better deals. Of course, PP/ALS are better watches overall, but they're at a price that not everyone can afford here, and if there aren't that many takers to begin with, resale can and does suffer. (though I can't say with absolute certainty cause I've never had an ALS or PP).

[Demosthene]

Originally Posted by lorsban

Sorry, I should've mentioned that I've only dealt with service centers in the Philippines, Singapore and HK and so far, in all three places, Rolex servicing has proven to be both timely, and very reasonably priced. For example, I had a crystal/bezel insert/gasket replacement, plus overhaul/buffing for a 16613 and all I was charged was about $380. I also brought in a YM and was quoted $240. Both jobs done in 2 weeks. In my opinion, that's excellent. Everybody else either charges much more or takes longer to get the job done.

If that was done by an authorised service centre, then it’s literally cheaper for me to fly there get my watch serviced and fly back.

[honitel]

I like strap that blends and make the watch even attractive like yours Ran.

[tigerpac]

"(though I can't say with absolute certainty cause I've never had an ALS or PP)"

Me either - ah some day! (Though actually probably wouldn't get a PP, at that price I prefer the look of most of the ALS's more)

[lorsban]

Originally Posted by tigerpac

"(though I can't say with absolute certainty cause I've never had an ALS or PP)"

Me either - ah some day! (Though actually probably wouldn't get a PP, at that price I prefer the look of most of the ALS's more)

Yeah by the time I can afford one, I'll probably be too old to even care. Haha

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[caryyee]

DRHR, which model is that in your second photo??? I really like that one!!

[drhr]

Originally Posted by caryyee

DRHR, which model is that in your second photo??? I really like that one!!

Thanks!
top left SBGR019
top right SBGW031
bottom SBGW041

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by drhr

Thanks!
top left SBGR019
top right SBGW031
bottom SBGW041

Is there some logic to how they name watches? It seems like a random set of letters, followed by a random set of numbers, but I've never tried to figure it out. That's the only thing I dislike about Grand Seiko.

[drhr]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

Is there some logic to how they name watches? It seems like a random set of letters, followed by a random set of numbers, but I've never tried to figure it out. That's the only thing I dislike about Grand Seiko.

I'm not quite sure myself, being fairly new to the Seiko fan club. Never tried to figure it out either but seems to be very accurate when seeking information. As I was corresponding with the retailers/sellers, mentioning the piece by it's respective codes gets immediate/correct info (perhaps that can be said for every other manufacturer, I'm sure).

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by drhr

I'm not quite sure myself, being fairly new to the Seiko fan club. Never tried to figure it out either but seems to be very accurate when seeking information. As I was corresponding with the retailers/sellers, mentioning the piece by it's respective codes gets immediate/correct info (perhaps that can be said for every other manufacturer, I'm sure).

I guess GS has forgone the use of standard names, and gone right to a more model-like naming scheme. It would be like Rolex selling the 16660 instead of the old Sea Dweller, or IWC selling the 3706 and 3717 model pilot chronographs. It is clear, but it does impose a bit of a hurdle to the person who doesn't know much about the brand.

They are lovely watches, and I hope they become more widely recognized (though not more expensive).

[lorsban]

Originally Posted by Demosthene

If that was done by an authorised service centre, then it’s literally cheaper for me to fly there get my watch serviced and fly back.

How much is it where you're from? And why would they price it differently?

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[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by lorsban

How much is it where you're from? And why would they price it differently?

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Because different markets have different levels of price elasticity. Any revenue maximizing firm will price different in different markets.

[lorsban]

Originally Posted by drhr

Thanks!
top left SBGR019
top right SBGW031
bottom SBGW041

I like the first one, the SBGR019. I've never seen that kind of bracelet, is that new or is it an older model?

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[drhr]

Originally Posted by lorsban

I like the first one, the SBGR019. I've never seen that kind of bracelet, is that new or is it an older model?

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It's an older, discontinued model. Of the 3 that I own, it is the one that feels the most substantial from a heft/weight perspective, which I love. And the bracelet is awesome in terms of quality. Again, just feels heavier/more substantial, especially on the wrist. The SBGW041 came with both bracelet and strap, and while the bracelet is fine/comfortabale, it does not feel as good as the one on the 019. I use the black strap because it offsets/highlights the dial better in my opinion. . . .

[Cmmatthews]

Having model numbers instead of names seems common to a lot of Japanese products, and I guess German for that matter too. Look at electronics. It's only a recent phenomenon that we are finally getting names for things. I guess it's a lot easier to find a number rather than pay a marketing dept for a name.