1946 Rolex Air King - 4499

[TommyIvy]

I recently got my hands on a 1946 (Serial: 422xxx) Rolex Oyster - Ref 4499. Now I assumed the ref would make this an Air King but with the dial not mentioning the “Air King” name and it also having the sub seconds at the 6 o’clock position, it makes me question its authenticity.

What’s y’all’s take

[TommyIvy]

A few more photos

[TommyIvy]

It’s hard to tell the ref number but it does in fact say “4499”

[MILGAUSS88]

It looks like an early redial to me.

Here is another 4499 with the same dial (not redone) and no Air-King on it.
Does not surprise me that they would use the same case ref on 2 different watches during this time period.

https://www.vintagewinders.co.uk/rol...s-mens-before/

[R.W.T.]

These names went in almost any reference though they did frequent certain cases.

But really that case could be a Royal or just simply as your is Oyster.

The names did not necessarily follow the case numbers. Other cases from that era used Air King as well.

4365 for instance.

[TommyIvy]

I wonder if this would still be considered an early iteration of the “Air King”? I don’t know much about the movement... but know that the 4925 and 4365 had a sub seconds dial

[TommyIvy]

Photo of the movement

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by TommyIvy

I wonder if this would still be considered an early iteration of the “Air King”? I don’t know much about the movement... but know that the 4925 and 4365 had a sub seconds dial

These are just names. It's not a big deal that it's an Air King or a Royal
or whatever.

The reference numbers are the same...2280 is a Speed King. It can also be an Imperial or a Royal.

It's an Air King if it SAYS Air King. :-)

And 4365 did NOT always have a sub seconds dial. Here's a 4365

with Sweep Seconds Dial.

Here IS a 4925 Air King...with a SWEEP dial.

Same as 2280 did not always have a sub seconds dial. Same as 3121.

The didn't differentiate as much in those days, especially with the hand wind models, though some traditionally favor one over the other. The automatic watches tend to be one over the other sweep vs. sub.

Also 3359 is sometimes an Imperial sometimes a Viceroy...sometimes sweep sometimes sub...same with the 3139 Army Case is not always an Army...sometimes it's a Royal...or an Imperial sometimes sweep sometimes sub.

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by TommyIvy

Photo of the movement

it's a 15 jewel 700 - 10.5 H with early super shock. Mid 40's.

[Vlad]

Here's a 4925 with sweep second hand and the same dial as previously posted 4365

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by Vlad

Here's a 4925 with sweep second hand and the same dial as previously posted 4365

Super Shock!!

[motoikkyu]

I do love the sub-dial Rolex, but haven't been able to find one for sale that's automatic. Does anyone know if they made such? The beautiful example posted is manual, the one I have is manual, are there automatic Rolex with subdials?

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by motoikkyu

I do love the sub-dial Rolex, but haven't been able to find one for sale that's automatic. Does anyone know if they made such? The beautiful example posted is manual, the one I have is manual, are there automatic Rolex with subdials?

Yep.

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Yep.

Tommy is right, as always.

Do a google search (images) for "rolex bubbleback subdial" - you will see a lot of them

If you want to see some ladies autos with subdials - look up 6509 or 6504

[motoikkyu]

I should be beaten for my lack of clarity: the thought was coherent when it was in my head, but hit the keyboard with ambiguity. I have multiple bubblebacks (by definition, automatic) with subdials. They are 32mm.

I have a 34mm oyster-cased manual with a subdial. Are there any 34 or 36mm oyster-cased AUTOMATIC Rolex with subdial configuration?

[Vlad]

That's a better question and I need to think about this one.

Let's take this approach:

We know that Cal 3xxx, 15xxx, and 10xx - i.e. large movements post BB, all had sweep second hand - thus no subdials.
So, we only looking at larger cases with BB movements. - 4467, 6075, 6105, etc. (36mm) or 6084, 6284, .... (34mm). Nothing comes to mind as of yet.
Then there are models like 5030 and similar - and right now I can't think of any of them with subdials

YES!!!!! ---> 6062 <----

[motoikkyu]

Amazing! Thank you so much for that analysis! I won't be getting a 6062 in this lifetime, but they are beautiful.

[Vlad]

never say never....

[motoikkyu]

Follow up: is the 5026 ovettone 36mm or 34mm? I see them from time to time with subdials. Does anyone know?

[Vlad]

.

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by motoikkyu

Follow up: is the 5026 ovettone 36mm or 34mm? I see them from time to time with subdials. Does anyone know?

Based on a quick web search, probably 36mm. But one place mentioned that it came with a 7205 bracelet

[motoikkyu]

Vlad, the 7205 doesn't mean that much: I have a 5029, that's one of the 36mm that takes a 19mm band or bracelet. So, it could still be a 36mm which takes a 19mm bracelet. Again, I thank you sincerely.