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Old 7 April 2018, 02:00 AM   #1
Marigold165
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Love my new 5513 but....

Greetings,
I'm new to this forum as well as the vintage Rolex game.
I just bought a vintage 5513 circa 1960's from a reputable dealer. I only saw pictures of the watch online.
I received it yesterday and its looks very nice and I am/was happy with it until I took it to my local Rolex dealer for the once over.
He removed the bracelet and tried to look for the serial number. It was so pitted out that the serial numbers are not legible. The dealer told me that it didn't appear as though they were scratched or filed away intentionally, it was just from years of grime that eat away the metal and he has seen this before.
I know I should be happy and wear it because I like the appearance and condition from an eyeball standpoint, however this it is just gnawing at me knowing there are no serial numbers.

My questions are:
Does this really hurt the resale value tremendously?
Should I just wear it and forget it?
I have a 14 day return period. Should I return it and keep looking?

The dealer did not mislead me, they just never mentioned it nor did I ask about the serial numbers. They gave a date range in the listing 1960-1969. It's on me.

Thanks John
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Old 7 April 2018, 05:26 AM   #2
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Hello John.

I'm no expert at all but I can see a little bit of inconsistencies in your watch.

The color of the bezel pearl looks clearer that those of the dial and hands so maybe is a later replacement one.

Your "meter first" domed tritium dial dots should mean that your watch was made between 1968 and early 1969, a serial number around the 1.7 to 2 million number. But the bracelet you have is a 93150 that was intoduced a little bit later at the seventies.

I would suggest take a picture of the clasp blade inside so to read the manufacture year that is stamped. Should be 69 if is the original. Also a picture of the code of the end links of the bracelet, could add a bit of light. If they are "280" or "380" your watch should be from around 1969 and your original bracelet should be a folded 9315 that would be consistent with your dial.

If they are "580" they belongs to your later bracelet and then, as no having serial number visible, it could mean that you have a 70s 5513 on which the dial has been changed to a earlier and much more valuable "meter first".

Hope that forumers here that are much more knowlegable than me can enlight you a bit more.
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Old 7 April 2018, 01:26 PM   #3
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The replaced insert and bracelet are besides the point. The fact that the watch doesn’t have a legible serial number is an absolute value-killer. That’s a HUGE omission by the seller, and would be an immediate deal-breaker for me. No decent seller/dealer should leave out that detail.

I respectfully disagreee that you weren’t misled. Omitting such a crucial detail IS misleading, because the assumption should be that the watch has a legible serial number unless otherwise stated. A red flag should have been that such a broad date range was given in the listing. That’s a clue that something was amiss.

Unless you got a fantastic deal that took the absence of the serial number into account, I would definitely return the watch if it were me. Do you mind sharing the name of this “reputable dealer?”
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Old 7 April 2018, 07:00 PM   #4
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My advice would be to send it back........the doubts will grow and grow to the point where there is no enjoyment left in your watch.......chances are you will then sell at a loss. Good luck with your decision.
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Old 7 April 2018, 07:38 PM   #5
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I'd be sending it back for the reasons above. Is it insurable without serial numbers ?Certainly going to be very difficult to trace if lost or stolen.
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Old 7 April 2018, 08:39 PM   #6
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I have to say that if I couldn't even work out the first 2 digits of the serial number, I would not be happy.

I dare say you paid quite a few dollars for this watch on the basis that you would be able to authenticate its provenance.

Although it doesn't make the watch any less of a Rolex, it means that it is impossible to prove its date of origin and with replacement parts fitted legitimately due to servicing that makes it more difficult to establish any date of manufacture.

Even if you had the warranty papers, without the serial number on the watch how does one prove the watch matches the papers.

It may be a return for you or a negotiation on a partial refund.
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Old 7 April 2018, 08:56 PM   #7
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Reselling a watch with unreadable serial is tougher than selling a used Bayliner boat. Basically impossible.

I would value it as the parts except the case. Then you are in the clear if you ever want to move on.
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Old 7 April 2018, 08:57 PM   #8
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Old 7 April 2018, 10:01 PM   #9
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Had you asked, or had you been told, would you have bought ?


The dealer knew, back it goes !

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Old 7 April 2018, 11:25 PM   #10
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no questions about it, you were sold a parts watch and you were mislead. DJ without serial numbers is OK, as you can pick up a new case for a couple of hundred dollars. 5513 without a serial number is nothing. Basically, you bought a 1520 movement, dial & hands, replacement insert, a case back (which might also be pitted), and a newer band.

Return it!
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Old 7 April 2018, 11:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swish77 View Post
The replaced insert and bracelet are besides the point. The fact that the watch doesn’t have a legible serial number is an absolute value-killer. That’s a HUGE omission by the seller, and would be an immediate deal-breaker for me. No decent seller/dealer should leave out that detail.

I respectfully disagreee that you weren’t misled. Omitting such a crucial detail IS misleading, because the assumption should be that the watch has a legible serial number unless otherwise stated. A red flag should have been that such a broad date range was given in the listing. That’s a clue that something was amiss.

Unless you got a fantastic deal that took the absence of the serial number into account, I would definitely return the watch if it were me. Do you mind sharing the name of this “reputable dealer?”
This exactly. A reputable dealer would no doubt have had that bracelet off to check these things. Had you picked it up at a garage sale, then it’s on you. Please name the dealer.
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Old 8 April 2018, 02:55 AM   #12
Marigold165
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Well, that seals it. I'm returning it.
Thanks to all your thoughtful replies.
Regardless of the whole resale thing, it is bothering me enough that I just can't get over it. I'll return it and keep looking.
The dealer is "Gemma By WP Diamonds" out of New York bought through Chrono24.
We'll see how their return policy is, if they give me any grief.
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Old 8 April 2018, 03:14 AM   #13
rootbeer7
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Originally Posted by Marigold165 View Post
Well, that seals it. I'm returning it.
Thanks to all your thoughtful replies.
Regardless of the whole resale thing, it is bothering me enough that I just can't get over it. I'll return it and keep looking.
The dealer is "Gemma By WP Diamonds" out of New York bought through Chrono24.
We'll see how their return policy is, if they give me any grief.
Good decision
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Old 8 April 2018, 06:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLRIDES View Post
Had you asked, or had you been told, would you have bought ?


The dealer knew, back it goes !

Yup. Have to agree. I would not have purchased without pics of numbers. But, that is a pretty big issue for a lot of folks and most reputable dealers would have disclosed this up front. Just my opinion. Good luck.
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Old 8 April 2018, 07:20 AM   #15
Marigold165
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Yes for sure. New to this vintage game and lesson learned.
I have emailed the dealer of return wishes. I'll give a call Monday and hopefully will all go smoothly.
Next watch I concider buying, I think I will post some pictures and get the members consensus. Much appreciate everyone chiming in.
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Old 8 April 2018, 12:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold165 View Post
Well, that seals it. I'm returning it.
Thanks to all your thoughtful replies.
Regardless of the whole resale thing, it is bothering me enough that I just can't get over it. I'll return it and keep looking.
The dealer is "Gemma By WP Diamonds" out of New York bought through Chrono24.
We'll see how their return policy is, if they give me any grief.
In the memory banks it goes, do not buy from list !

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Old 8 April 2018, 01:43 PM   #17
R.O.L.E.X
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It's always nice to let the seller correct the situation before stating their name online here..
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Old 8 April 2018, 09:44 PM   #18
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As has been said on many occasions, vintage Rolex is a real minefield and many people have had mixed experience and fortunes. The risks and challenges are arguably increasing with each passing year as some of the much vaunted and sought after models get older and harder to locate. That said, it's great when you turn a good one up! I have seen a number of watches through the years where the serial number has worn down to the point that it is very difficult to make out, though I have not seen one where I could not make it out at all. Might be dud to s combination of issues when the number was stamped and some pitting or corrosion over time. Anyway if it is bothering you then as some of the guys have suggested, you might be better returning it as moving it on later could be tricky. Good luck!
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Old 8 April 2018, 11:19 PM   #19
roh123
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It's always nice to let the seller correct the situation before stating their name online here..
Both yes and no. From a business owners perspective I understand that names should be kept private as long as possible. But on the other hand opportunist dealers not describing serious issues should not get a pass just because the take something back if the customer found out the issues on their own. As long as the facts are presented accordingly I think it is a good thing that we speak of those not acting professionally. A worn out serial may not be the biggest pf deals for some buyers but it sure is something that should be mentioned prior to a deal to everyone interested in the piece. Same goes regarding changed parts, relumes etc imho.
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Old 9 April 2018, 12:29 AM   #20
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Both yes and no. From a business owners perspective I understand that names should be kept private as long as possible. But on the other hand opportunist dealers not describing serious issues should not get a pass just because the take something back if the customer found out the issues on their own. As long as the facts are presented accordingly I think it is a good thing that we speak of those not acting professionally. A worn out serial may not be the biggest pf deals for some buyers but it sure is something that should be mentioned prior to a deal to everyone interested in the piece. Same goes regarding changed parts, relumes etc imho.
x100. Totally agreed. The seller must have known this Sub was missing its serial number, and that very important detail was intentionally left out of the listing. They shouldn't get a pass just for taking the watch back. They'll probably list the watch for sale again ... with the same important details missing. The financial stakes are way too high nowadays in this crazy vintage Rolex world not to warn other potential buyers about sellers who are deceptive.

Now, if there's some detail missing, and we're not getting the full story, the seller would be welcome to join the forum and post about it.
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Old 10 April 2018, 06:20 AM   #21
Marigold165
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Yes, I probably shouldn't have named the dealer just yet. Good point.

However to follow up, Gemma Diamonds,the seller, was terrific and didn't give me any hassle. They sent out a Fed Ex Insured label so I didn't even have to pay to return. So thumbs up from that standpoint.
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Old 10 April 2018, 07:40 AM   #22
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Yes, I probably shouldn't have named the dealer just yet. Good point.

However to follow up, Gemma Diamonds,the seller, was terrific and didn't give me any hassle. They sent out a Fed Ex Insured label so I didn't even have to pay to return. So thumbs up from that standpoint.
Good on them for a no hassle return,............................ but they knew ! It’s a serial number, not a small scratch on the caseback, they knew. The next buyer may not notice such as you, so there’s nothing wrong with naming the seller.

The seller knew, this was an oversight !
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Old 10 April 2018, 07:44 AM   #23
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Glad it worked out.
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Old 12 April 2018, 03:26 AM   #24
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My 5513 is one of my favorite watches and I think its worth waiting for the right one.
Having that serial number issue would have been stuck in your mind forever had you kept it so I think you made a wise decision. Good luck on your search!
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