Questions about this ca 1960 solid gold Datejust

[MannySDG]

This watch belonged to my father and as far as I remember he bought it in Switzerland in 1960. We no longer have the original bracelet for the watch, and my mom's memory as to what happened to it is a bit murky, either way, that explains why the wrong bracelet is on the watch, but anyways...

What do you guys make of the engravings on the case, are those factory or did someone experiment on this poor thing? They seem pretty even, and I have heard people mention Rolex doing "florentine engravings" on these watches? Based on the condition of the dial and the fact that it only says "Swiss" on the bottom, I am assuming this could be a Radium dial?

Is this watch sort of rare for being a solid gold 36mm Datejust, having a Radium dial and having those engravings on the case?

Also, does anyone know the reference number of this watch so I can do more research?

Thanks!

[crowncollection]

Where are the engravings ?


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[kwcsports]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

Where are the engravings ?


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All over the lugs, bezel, all over everything. Take a closer look.

[watch-guy.com]

Finish is called Morellis ( i think that is how it is spelt) Factory finish

Watch looks from early 60's but not sure if radium used- hands look newer than dial

reference number found on case -upper case behind end piece of bracelet= a jeweller should be able to remove bracelet to give you case number and reference number found on case between lugs behind end piece of bracelet

Julian

[77T]

That is a rare finish as maybe 1 in 10,000 DJ’s had it. If you had the original bracelet even rarer. That looks like a reference 1601 and the bracelet could have been a brick morellis finished one like this:



You might need to ask Mom to go through old boxes or other nooks and crannies in drawers. That original bracelet may have broken, was just set aside, and now forgotten.

I sense that you live (or he did) in a warm climate near the water. I recognize the spots on the dial as a sign of moisture finding a way into the case. Hopefully the dial can be lightly cleaned without damaging the original finish.

He left you a great memento of his appreciation of the finer things in life.


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[CTech]

The engravings looks like the remains of the factory Florentine finish. The model is possibly/probably 1602 and there are a few Internet photos still available of ones that have been for sale previously.

Most of the ones in the photos have much better defined engraved patterns, but you can see the characteristic hash marks of a Florentine finish on this one. I'm guessing it has been polished a lot to erase most of the engraving like this.

[crowncollection]

Ok I meant the reference numbers

Moralis finish will have a specific reference number
Model 1611

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[CTech]

If it is a factory Morellis finish it could be model 1611 as this one from a recent auction:

[77T]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

Ok I meant the reference numbers

Moralis finish will have a specific reference number
Model 1611

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Ah true - I ignorantly said 1601.

Is this more like what the 1611 would have looked like on its original bracelet?



(Pic from RPR)


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[CTech]

The bezel on the photo from RPR looks like the Morellis finish found on a 1611 but the bracelet isn't right and looks like a bark finish Jubilee.

The correct Morellis finish bracelet has a pock-marked pattern on the center links as if someone has tapped the surface with sharp point. There is a good photo of one with a blue dial on jeroenvink's Netherlands site (title is "Yellow Gold Rolex Datejust ref. 1611 from 1968").

I posted another photo of a Tiffany dialled one but I think it is held up for review by the moderators.

[MannySDG]

Thanks for all the input guys!

The watch was polished twice I believe with the two services it received being in the mid 80s, and just recently earlier this year. The watch lay forgotten in a drawer (in warm southern states climate) for over 20 years. I stumbled upon it one day, wound it up and it still worked....being about 1 minute fast per day! I knew it needed a service but I also knew that the bracelet wasn't original and was afraid to take it to Rolex to have it serviced (I was also concerned that they would replace the dial). I took it to some local jewelers and they didn't even know how to take the bracelet off! An acquaintance of mine was in the jewelry business so I asked him what I should do, and he told me that one of the Watch shops in town send their watches to a friend of his, who is a retired Rolex tech. That's where the watch went. The crystal was replaced, but he was told to not touch the dial since it seemed to be the original still. He gave the watch a light polish being aware of the engravings on it.

Now it runs accurately again.

As far as I remember the watch has it's original hands still, so this could have been a transitional piece where they used the old "Swiss" dial (which usually indicates it's a radium dial) but used Tritium instead?

Oh...my mom remembered that something broke on the original bracelet and he sold it way back when... ugh...

I wonder what it's worth now....obviously with original bracelet and box and papers it would be much more valuable. Of course I will never sell it.

[Dan S]

Regardless of the lore of the service history, my eyes are telling me that neither dial nor hands has the original lume. Not a big deal in the big picture.

[offrdmania]

Looks like someone painted the lume to make it bright white

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by CTech

The bezel on the photo from RPR looks like the Morellis finish found on a 1611 but the bracelet isn't right and looks like a bark finish Jubilee.

The correct Morellis finish bracelet has a pock-marked pattern on the center links as if someone has tapped the surface with sharp point. There is a good photo of one with a blue dial on jeroenvink's Netherlands site (title is "Yellow Gold Rolex Datejust ref. 1611 from 1968").

I posted another photo of a Tiffany dialled one but I think it is held up for review by the moderators.

Correct moralis jubilee is different than bark. This watch also came with brick moralis bracelet option


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[77T]

Originally Posted by MannySDG

Thanks for all the input guys!

The watch was polished twice I believe with the two services it received being in the mid 80s, and just recently earlier this year. The watch lay forgotten in a drawer (in warm southern states climate) for over 20 years. I stumbled upon it one day, wound it up and it still worked....being about 1 minute fast per day! I knew it needed a service but I also knew that the bracelet wasn't original and was afraid to take it to Rolex to have it serviced (I was also concerned that they would replace the dial). I took it to some local jewelers and they didn't even know how to take the bracelet off! An acquaintance of mine was in the jewelry business so I asked him what I should do, and he told me that one of the Watch shops in town send their watches to a friend of his, who is a retired Rolex tech. That's where the watch went. The crystal was replaced, but he was told to not touch the dial since it seemed to be the original still. He gave the watch a light polish being aware of the engravings on it.

Now it runs accurately again.

As far as I remember the watch has it's original hands still, so this could have been a transitional piece where they used the old "Swiss" dial (which usually indicates it's a radium dial) but used Tritium instead?

Oh...my mom remembered that something broke on the original bracelet and he sold it way back when... ugh...

I wonder what it's worth now....obviously with original bracelet and box and papers it would be much more valuable. Of course I will never sell it.

Nice background - and so many other vintage watches are just as your Dad’s was - that is, languishing in a drawer. In my case it was my Dad’s Seamaster. 30+ years in a Miami dresser drawer. That was why I mentioned the dial condition - but the Seamaster dial was well beyond help. It had to be refinished.

The bracelet likely went for melt value all those years ago in trade for a working bracelet. Can’t lament that - it was a decision made within the context of its utility being gone.

Enjoy many years ahead with it - perhaps it would look fine on an alligator Rolex strap with a tang buckle.




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[MannySDG]

Originally Posted by 77T

Nice background - and so many other vintage watches are just as your Dad’s was - that is, languishing in a drawer. In my case it was my Dad’s Seamaster. 30+ years in a Miami dresser drawer. That was why I mentioned the dial condition - but the Seamaster dial was well beyond help. It had to be refinished.

The bracelet likely went for melt value all those years ago in trade for a working bracelet. Can’t lament that - it was a decision made within the context of its utility being gone.

Enjoy many years ahead with it - perhaps it would look fine on an alligator Rolex strap with a tang buckle.




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Thank you sir, I most definitely will, I usually save it for family occasions and Holidays. Thanks to all that have responded and shared your knowledge!