Electric cars.

[youknow23]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

How many fatal crashes were caused by human error since 2016? My guess is a lot more than 19. Oh I am not a proponent of self driving vehicles, I don’t care if they are continued or cancelled, but people point to it such a big deal when there is an unfortunate death caused by AI, when there are dozens, hundreds, thousands? Of deaths in the US EVERY SINGLE DAY caused by human error.

yes and this is in tesladeaths dot com, i didnt make it up.

car fires are even more ridiculous. the amount of electric car fires to combustion is really minor but it gets all the headlines.

also compare that to tesla being the safest car on the road (by a mile) in crash testing and the kneejerk reactions to this being dangerous is hillarious.

it is more dangerous to joke that an ICE car is safer!

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by youknow23

electric cars have now become electric self driving cars. wide release beta is just a matter of time before legislation follows seeing as autopilot has had 19 fatal crashes since 2016!

Selfdriving not only applies to EVs.
Same tec is used in ICE cars and it will become standard in the future.

Eliminating human error will substantially improve road safety.

[Chester01]

Not sure why electric which depends heavily on all kinds of metals and other ingredients from many places is preferred over hydrogen. Seems to me, we will trade dependence on a few areas for fossil fuels for dependence on another few for the ingredients to make batteries. They also have yet to figure out the battery life in cold climates.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Chester01

Not sure why electric which depends heavily on all kinds of metals and other ingredients from many places is preferred over hydrogen. Seems to me, we will trade dependence on a few areas for fossil fuels for dependence on another few for the ingredients to make batteries. They also have yet to figure out the battery life in cold climates.

I agree, Hydrogen seems to be the grail, why they are not dedicating all the resources to that solution instead of (battery powered) EVs.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Chester01

… They also have yet to figure out the battery life in cold climates.

You don’t have to tell me

I leased a plug in hybrid for about 4 years. The manufacturer stated that the car was good for 30km of electric only range.

In the dead of winter on a full charge, I was lucky to get 6km.

In the summer I was getting 22km at the most.

Love the technology but here in our climate and for the kind of driving I do, I have no choice but to use an ICE (no pun intended)

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by brandrea

You don’t have to tell me

I leased a plug in hybrid for about 4 years. The manufacturer stated that the car was good for 30km of electric only range.

In the dead of winter on a full charge, I was lucky to get 6km.

In the summer I was getting 22km at the most.

Love the technology but here in our climate and for the kind of driving I do, I have no choice but to use an ICE (no pun intended)

Climate change is on it's way to help.

We'll get you up to at least 20C every day pretty soon. You hang in there.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Climate change is on it's way to help.

We'll get you up to at least 20C every day pretty soon. You hang in there.

At least I can save a bundle on south trips I guess.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by Chester01

Not sure why electric which depends heavily on all kinds of metals and other ingredients from many places is preferred over hydrogen. Seems to me, we will trade dependence on a few areas for fossil fuels for dependence on another few for the ingredients to make batteries. They also have yet to figure out the battery life in cold climates.

Hydrogen is a waste of energy.
We are worried about if the electric energy is enough to charge our EVs and are fantasizing about „green hydrogen“ with the assumption that electric Power is infinitely available.
Why not using the energy that is needed to split H from O2 and charge many many EVs instead?

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by brandrea

You don’t have to tell me

I leased a plug in hybrid for about 4 years. The manufacturer stated that the car was good for 30km of electric only range.

In the dead of winter on a full charge, I was lucky to get 6km.

In the summer I was getting 22km at the most.

Love the technology but here in our climate and for the kind of driving I do, I have no choice but to use an ICE (no pun intended)

Sophisticated EVs have a heater for the battery which your Hybrid doesn‘t have. Your example is extreme and has nothing to do with the reality of EVs.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

Sophisticated EVs have a heater for the battery which your Hybrid doesn‘t have. Your example is extreme and has nothing to do with the reality of EVs.

I confess to not knowing much about them.

It was 2017, BMW 330e.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[JoeJoeBobo]

QUOTE=TheVTCGuy;12477681]

Originally Posted by joli160

You’re entitled to your opinion, personally, when literally THOUSANDS of scientists, environmentalists, Engineers in DOZENS of countries tell us that EVs are less harmful to the environment, I believe them. I am not a scientist, they are not commercial pilots, they refer to my expertise and I refer to theirs. If this were an isolated bunch in one state or city or even country I would lend more credence to the conspiracy theory, but it is much bigger then that.

And someone has to explain to me the money aspect. Are you trying to say that a group that will benefit from this is leading the move to EVs? Who? Elon? Transitioning to EVs from ICE is costing automobile manufacturers BILLIONS of dollars, so who exactly is benefitting from this extremely costly transition? Again, we are talking countries all over the world, so whomever these conspiracy leaders are that will benefit financially from the transition to non-ICE vehicles must be extremely powerful.

EV vehicles don’t grow on trees, in a lab or are born. The are made, the minerals mined, products produced and transported along with the power grid to charge them are all things run by fossil fuels.

The production of them is worse then the net savings using them. Those hypocrite people you laud fly around while promoting green EV in private jets which give off more carbon in one flight then I will produce in a year…and we own an EV vehicle.

P.S. the once respected by the elites and now disgraced scammer SBF who gave millions to promote the green EV plan. Now admits it to is BS scam and simply about $ and virtue signaling not actually saving the planet. So theres that.

[yachty 1]

Definitely not an expert in this field but how many byproducts are derived from gas? Unfortunately it's here to stay. I live in NY right near the power plants that produce the most electricity for NY right near Niagra Falls and we lose power when it's to hot outside, as does California. We are many years away from that dream in my opinion.

[Malum]

Where do all those old batteries go ?

[JoeJoeBobo]

Originally Posted by Malum

Where do all those old batteries go ?

Saving the planet through toxic landfill. Maybe Elon can ship ‘em to space.

[TheVTCGuy]

Yet countries continue to set deadlines for the end of ICE only powered vehicles (Hybrids will still be around), Car manufacturers continue to phase out ICE only vehicles (I think it’s Porsche, that will be 100% EV in ten years) and sales of EVs have almost doubled year over year. Right now they are (something like) 6%, but the rate is increasing exponentially, companies continue to pour literally billions of dollars in to EV development.

Of course, YOU are smarter then all these people and very soon they will just say: “Oh, forget it, we were just kidding, we’ll go back to 100% ICE.”

You can hate all you want, bring up all the challenges (and agreed there are severe challenges, there were also a lot transitioning from horses to automobiles), bury your head in the sand. The future is inevitable and approaching. EVs (or hydrogen) will be the norm and ICE vehicles will be a novelty. Get over it.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by Malum

Where do all those old batteries go ?

Nowhere good, that’s for sure.

Two follow up questions:
1. What is the cost to replace a dead cell?
2. When you figure out question #1 costs more than the car is worth in 8-12 yrs what happens to the car, where will it go?

[austinp]

The tail is wagging the dog.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[East Bay Rider]

Trying to picture old, dead Teslas and their ilk parked alongside barns surrounded by weeds and scrap iron because remember not everyone lives in a city.

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Nowhere good, that’s for sure.

Two follow up questions:
1. What is the cost to replace a dead cell?
2. When you figure out question #1 costs more than the car is worth in 8-12 yrs what happens to the car, where will it go?

Tesla recycles their packs/cells. The rare earth elements can be reclaimed and manufactured into new cells.

Those following this space know that this isn’t an inevitable landfill situation.

https://www.tesla.com/support/sustainability-recycling


As a Tesla owner, I personally wouldn’t keep one past the battery warranty term. Batteries are evolving to last longer - there’s a concept called the “million mile battery” - a lofty goal of making batteries that can hold up for very long service life.

The areas in which the technology is continuously improving:

Capacity (density per cell)
Longevity
Charge speed
Weight (function of cell density vs designed aggregate pack capacity)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RichardBartlett]

The new sodium based batteries have 4x the energy density of lithium.
Early days but the future is fast approaching. The EV industry has been starved of funding and brains for over 100 years. That's changed and money is being spent on R&D.
The issue is not the technology but the Luddite mentality desperate for it to fail rather than keeping abreast of developments

When mobile phones started making a call was the ultimate goal that's it nothing more to offer.
Now its a given and it's the other phone applications and technology that attracts
why do people base EV thinking on today's cars, can they not comprehend we are only at the start and in 5;10;20; 50 years who knows how far battery tech will have reached?

looking back isn't the way forward

[JasoninDenver]

My estimated wait time for a BMW ix is 8-12 months.

Sure wish the people ahead of me did not want an e.v. But, alas……

[joa]

one thing is for certain, the world can't survive billions of people driving around in gasoline based vehicles much longer,

EVs sound like a good intermediary (transitory) solution for the next few years

as much as i want to cruise around in a 911, i fear my next car will have to be a Taycan. my ideal scenario though would be 2022er 911 with e-motor inside...

[KokPingBalzac]

Originally Posted by Malum

Where do all those old batteries go ?

There is significant investment being made in EV battery manufacturing, solar panel manufacturing, EV manufacturing, semiconductors, green hydrogen projects, decarbonization efforts led by companies like occidental petroleum, smaller scale nuclear energy, "circular economy" like producing natural gas from landfill waste. Just saw an article the other day of how Dow chemical and waste management are partnering up to try to create ways to recycle crappy types of plastic like the ones used in shopping bags and gatorade bottles. Pretty cool things happening right now at the intersections of the technology, industrials, and energy sectors that will create a lot of specialized engineering jobs and higher quality manufacturing jobs. Very exciting new industries that are in the early innings of a long long growth cycle.

Many of these batteries will be recycled over time so that's good that they'll be able so salvage some of the raw materials in them and dispose of toxic stuff properly. Just saw an article today on axios announcing a new $3.5B EV battery manufacturing and recycling plant to be built in South Carolina. The sunbelt/rust belt is getting lots of investment in these types of projects- I have seen at least 4 other big multi billion dollar renewables projects announced just in the past month or two.

I just ordered a new Ford Mach-E Premium in Vapor Blue Metallic. Extended range AWD... very excited to take delivery in 6 months just in time to be done with winter! I prefer the lines of this car to the teslas and when I test drove it the handling, braking felt very similar to my current BMW SUV.

[East Bay Rider]

If only there was an inexpensive, environmentally friendly, easily replenished fuel source.



https://www.resilience.org/stories/2...ood-fuel-tank/

https://www.semissourian.com/blogs/flynch/entry/68367

[zengineer]

Originally Posted by youknow23

electric cars have now become electric self driving cars. wide release beta is just a matter of time before legislation follows seeing as autopilot has had 19 fatal crashes since 2016!

Electric and self driving are two separate technologies. My ICE F-150 pickup has Blue Cruise, essentially the same "enhanced cruise control" as a Tesla. It does however have cameras that watch my eyes to be sure I'm watching the road. Full autopilot on today's highway system is a poor choice on Teslas part.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by zengineer

Electric and self driving are two separate technologies. My ICE F-150 pickup has Blue Cruise, essentially the same "enhanced cruise control" as a Tesla. It does however have cameras that watch my eyes to be sure I'm watching the road. Full autopilot on today's highway system is a poor choice on Teslas part.

You are absolutely correct, auto-pilot and EVs are two different things. People who are against EVs say Teslas auto pilot is dangerous etc. They may be right, but that has nothing to do with EVs gradual overtaking the industry.

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

How many fatal crashes were caused by human error since 2016? My guess is a lot more than 19. Oh I am not a proponent of self driving vehicles, I don’t care if they are continued or cancelled, but people point to it such a big deal when there is an unfortunate death caused by AI, when there are dozens, hundreds, thousands? Of deaths in the US EVERY SINGLE DAY caused by human error.

Also, the important metric isn’t total fatalities or crashes. The context is required - so the metric to track is crashes and fatalities -per mile-.

When an article popped up a year or so ago, it spurred a lot of hand wringing about higher crashes and fatalities with Tesla as compared to say Cadillac. Absent the GM stats (and every other car manufacturer) was the number of miles driven with their systems. The Tesla owner will absolutely drive more miles with the system switched on than a 72 year old Cadillac driver. Without context, comparison is meaningless.

Same goes for fires - but this is far easier to track when comparing gasoline vehicle fires to EV fires.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GradyPhilpott]

Mercedes AA Class

https://iplayerhd.com/player/video/d...-cff7e6bcd493/

[INC]

[RichardBartlett]

personally can't wait for self driving cars.
sitting in the back on my laptop or watching the Sopranos again whilst the car does all the boring stuff.
what's not to like!

I know you all think you're Al Unser Junior
but statistics show you're not.
Go ona highway and hit cruise control, then watch how badly people drive by not being able to regulate their speed because they are too easily distracted. Self drive will greatly improve traffic flow and management and journey times will be less stressful and reduced