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Old 13 May 2019, 08:25 AM   #1
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Vintage 1601’s skyrocketing over 1600’s and 1603’s?

Has anyone else noticed this over the past 6 months? 1601’s in decent condition are now commanding $3.5-4k. Considering they were only only $2k 2 years ago, it seems that these have really picked up in value.
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Old 13 May 2019, 09:23 AM   #2
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Yes, yes I have.


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Old 13 May 2019, 09:33 AM   #3
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Of all the dial variations, I think the silver stick sunburst works best. Nice watch!

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Old 13 May 2019, 10:04 AM   #4
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Yep a 1601 just the head, in decent shape can easily go for $2-2.5k. And with the jubilee bracelet brings you to $3k+. A 78360 bracelet, fits a 1601 w/correct end links, goes for $1k+!!!

Linen dials and slate greys in pristine condition go for close to $5k!
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Old 13 May 2019, 10:18 AM   #5
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I get the sense that the 1601 is the most desirable datejust on the market right now.

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Yep a 1601 just the head, in decent shape can easily go for $2-2.5k. And with the jubilee bracelet brings you to $3k+. A 78360 bracelet, fits a 1601 w/correct end links, goes for $1k+!!!

Linen dials and slate greys in pristine condition go for close to $5k!
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Old 13 May 2019, 10:32 AM   #6
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Not really, as always condition commands a premium regardless of the ref. Most expensive 4 digit I've seen recently was 6300 for a NOS full kit 1603 at an auction last year.

The problem with the 1600, 1601 and 1625 (to a lesser degree) is unless you have supporting paperwork there's no way to know if it left the factory with white gold or yellow gold trim. The only way to be sure is original paperwork or RSC paperwork. Rolex are the only ones who really know. The 1603 is always SS. :)

50-60 years is long time. Fashions change, in the 60s and 70s dealers would offer 'gold packages' to change your DJ from WG to YG and usually throw in a dial change. The pendulum swung the other way as well, impecunious oil men could pick up a few bucks by selling the gold trim and going WG. The package included bezel, bracelet, crown, hands and dial. This was especially popular on older DJs in the go go 80s.

These conversions still happen today. As DJs enter higher price levels dealers will turn a less popular TT into a more salable WG then sell the gold parts for even better profit. The moral to the story is get Rolex to paper your 1600, 1601 or 1625.

I've always avoided 1601 for this reason unless I could prove provenance or simply didn't care like this, my only 1601. :)



I took my 1600 to Dallas RSC in 2006 so I have supporting paperwork it is indeed a SS bezel model.

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Old 13 May 2019, 10:46 AM   #7
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As long as all parts are factory original and the pieces themselves are catalog correct, I don’t think anyone cares what combinations watches were “birthed” as. Condition is far more important than papers.

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Not really, as always condition commands a premium regardless of the ref. Most expensive 4 digit I've seen recently was 6300 for a NOS full kit 1603 at an auction last year.

The problem with the 1600, 1601 and 1625 (to a lesser degree) is unless you have supporting paperwork there's no way to know if it left the factory with white gold or yellow gold trim. The only way to be sure is original paperwork or RSC paperwork. Rolex are the only ones who really know. The 1603 is always SS. :)

50-60 years is long time. Fashions change, in the 60s and 70s dealers would offer 'gold packages' to change your DJ from WG to YG and usually throw in a dial change. The pendulum swung the other way as well, impecunious oil men could pick up a few bucks by selling the gold trim and going WG. The package included bezel, bracelet, crown, hands and dial. This was especially popular on older DJs in the go go 80s.

These conversions still happen today. As DJs enter higher price levels dealers will turn a less popular TT into a more salable WG then sell the gold parts for even better profit. The moral to the story is get Rolex to paper your 1600, 1601 or 1625.

I've always avoided 1601 for this reason unless I could prove provenance or simply didn't care like this, my only 1601. :)



I took my 1600 to Dallas RSC in 2006 so I have supporting paperwork it is indeed a SS bezel model.

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Old 13 May 2019, 12:08 PM   #8
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The 1601 is classic Datejust which eventually will capture collector heart.

The early version with white gold coin bezel or dauphine hand are slightly unique and beautiful in my opinion.




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Old 13 May 2019, 12:31 PM   #9
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Vintage 1601’s skyrocketing over 1600’s and 1603’s?

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As long as all parts are factory original and the pieces themselves are catalog correct, I don’t think anyone cares what combinations watches were “birthed” as. Condition is far more important than papers.


Not once the collector market turns its attention to these 4-digit DJ’s...you’ll start to see the same obsession with originality like Vintage Subs now.

Low production dials (relatively speaking) like the wide boy or linen will soar above the crowded stick dialed Models methinks.


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Old 13 May 2019, 10:27 PM   #10
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So basically you’re saying papers or bust? There’s no way of verifying the originality of a dial/handset with a case.

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Not once the collector market turns its attention to these 4-digit DJ’s...you’ll start to see the same obsession with originality like Vintage Subs now.

Low production dials (relatively speaking) like the wide boy or linen will soar above the crowded stick dialed Models methinks.


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Old 13 May 2019, 10:30 PM   #11
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So basically you’re saying papers or bust? There’s no way of verifying the originality of a dial/handset with a case.


Not necessarily. Many 5512’s & 5513’s go for strong prices without papers- I was only saying WIS will demand more if the collectors focus on these DJs.


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Old 13 May 2019, 10:43 PM   #12
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1600 is most expensive today imho
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Old 14 May 2019, 12:02 AM   #13
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Mineral I love your watch would you sell it to me lol
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Old 14 May 2019, 12:35 AM   #14
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I don't mind when others are hellbent focused on obtaining papers and other ephemera when otherwise fine unpolished watches can be had for a bargain.

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Not necessarily. Many 5512’s & 5513’s go for strong prices without papers- I was only saying WIS will demand more if the collectors focus on these DJs.


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Old 14 May 2019, 01:20 AM   #15
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Yesterday there was an original two tone 1601 with a nice case, decent dial and original bracelet on eBay for $1,500.00 Buy It Now or starting bid at $800. I did a quick assessment to make sure it was all in order before I pulled the trigger and someone started the bidding already. I would have bought it for $1,500 and swapped the dial for another pie pan for a couple hundred bucks and sell the old one to recoup a few. Maybe even flip it for a profit with much better photos and write up.

So they're out there for a decent price but not regularly.
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Old 14 May 2019, 02:09 AM   #16
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Take a few dozen 1601’s, put them in a bag, shake them up, and add a redial – now call them “mint” (more than 12 available) - $2800 to $3000 a pop

For that, you get a basic model, condition and service history unknown – but hey, it’s a Rolex, and it’s “shiny”, so it must be good

Nice little mark up for a watch that they probably paid $1200 for, another 200 for the redial – the polish you can do for free – double your money basically, more if you sell the bracelet separately (everyone’s looking at the dial anyway)

It was, and still is, an entry level cheap Rolex, no matter how you tart it up. However, this does cause a “bubble” of desirability for an original 1601 that has not undergone a “make-over”, principally by genuine collectors of this model saying “Ah, but mine is as it left the factory, and has its original box and papers” – like that means anything in a world of box and papers sales on fleabay

There are a few nice examples of this watch out there, but they are the exception in a market flooded by re-dials. IMO, a nice original 1601 is worth 3k at the most, (a re-dial unknown maybe 2k) - any more than that, and you can get a 160xx in the same condition for the same price. Maybe in a few years, they’ll be re-dialling 160xx’s – which will then go for significantly more

Don’t get me wrong, I paid over the odds for the watch in my avatar, but I’d never over pay for something as simple as a 1601. But then of course, if you already have one, it’s bound to be “a rare dial” example, just like all of them are, “in mint condition and never polished”

I believe that Mr Carver has one 16xx in his possession, which he is fond of posting (black face) – very nice watch – probably worth around £3k (give or take) – but that’s being realistic, which I sense this thread is not about ……
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Old 14 May 2019, 02:16 AM   #17
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Very interesting. I was just looking at some vintage DJ recently ... was thinking to add another one before prices goes nuts ie ss sports models
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Old 14 May 2019, 04:04 AM   #18
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As long as all parts are factory original and the pieces themselves are catalog correct, I don’t think anyone cares what combinations watches were “birthed” as. Condition is far more important than papers.
My thoughts exactly.
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Old 14 May 2019, 04:57 AM   #19
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I haven't noticed a significant price difference between the 1600, 1601, and 1603 DJs. The value seems mainly to depend on condition, and to some extent the dial variations.

It seems to me that 4 years ago you could buy a three-watch lot of 4-digit DJs for $4k, and I suspect there are still pawn shops sitting on piles of them.
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Old 14 May 2019, 05:40 AM   #20
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Those days are long gone.

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I haven't noticed a significant price difference between the 1600, 1601, and 1603 DJs. The value seems mainly to depend on condition, and to some extent the dial variations.

It seems to me that 4 years ago you could buy a three-watch lot of 4-digit DJs for $4k, and I suspect there are still pawn shops sitting on piles of them.
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Old 14 May 2019, 05:45 AM   #21
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Those days are long gone.
Long gone in terms of price, yes. But the number of extant 160x pieces must be astronomical.

I personally know an elderly jewelry store owner who has taken dozens of them in trade over the years, and is sitting on a hoard. Mostly unattractive TT pieces with stretched out bracelets and scratched up bezels and crystals. He doesn't care to sell, but someday someone will buy up the lot and prep them for sale. I think there are a lot of hoards like that which could become available if prices continue to rise.
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Old 14 May 2019, 07:30 AM   #22
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I believe that Mr Carver has one 16xx in his possession, which he is fond of posting (black face) – very nice watch – probably worth around £3k (give or take) – but that’s being realistic, which I sense this thread is not about ……
Firstly, I would never go on a public forum and call a stranger a liar, not only does it indicate incredible stupidity it can get you banned.

Would you care to make a friendly 100,000 US dollar bet that I can produce these watches for a suitable 3rd party to authenticate? Or are you simply just another worthless internet troll? :)






















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Old 14 May 2019, 09:59 AM   #23
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If we're talking 16xx Rolex as specified, there are definitely several there, not one, and beautiful examples. That Day-Date has got to be in the running for best DD pic ever.
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Old 14 May 2019, 07:58 PM   #24
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Firstly, I would never go on a public forum and call a stranger a liar, not only does it indicate incredible stupidity it can get you banned.

Would you care to make a friendly 100,000 US dollar bet that I can produce these watches for a suitable 3rd party to authenticate? Or are you simply just another worthless internet troll? :)
If I’d have said Richard has one of “these” re-dialed watches – I could understand you being upset

What I actually said, and you quoted me – was that you had “one” 16xx, that you were fond of posting pictures of, and that (IMO) it was a really nice watch

That you immediately took this to imply that your watch was somehow linked in with the reconditioned ones I referred to earlier on in my post is entirely in your own head

I was, in fact, complimenting you on having one of the nicest examples out there of an unmolested black dialled 16xx

I shall refrain from posting on here again – this place is far too aggressive …..
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Old 14 May 2019, 11:03 PM   #25
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If I’d have said Richard has one of “these” re-dialed watches – I could understand you being upset

What I actually said, and you quoted me – was that you had “one” 16xx, that you were fond of posting pictures of, and that (IMO) it was a really nice watch

That you immediately took this to imply that your watch was somehow linked in with the reconditioned ones I referred to earlier on in my post is entirely in your own head

I was, in fact, complimenting you on having one of the nicest examples out there of an unmolested black dialled 16xx

I shall refrain from posting on here again – this place is far too aggressive …..
LOL, you didn't requote "in his possession". Plain enough. :)
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Old 14 May 2019, 11:36 PM   #26
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Please show me original mint 1601's for 3k, and I will buy each and every single one.

There is nothing "basic" about the 1601 -- it's a member of Rolex's flagship product line with the pie-pan dial variation that will never be produced again. We are not talking about 33-34mm Dates, OPs, and Precisions, here.

IMO, you are placing far too much emphasis on the 160X dial. They are abundantly available, whereas unpolished cases with matching bracelets are extremely rare and difficult to find.

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Take a few dozen 1601’s, put them in a bag, shake them up, and add a redial – now call them “mint” (more than 12 available) - $2800 to $3000 a pop

For that, you get a basic model, condition and service history unknown – but hey, it’s a Rolex, and it’s “shiny”, so it must be good

Nice little mark up for a watch that they probably paid $1200 for, another 200 for the redial – the polish you can do for free – double your money basically, more if you sell the bracelet separately (everyone’s looking at the dial anyway)

It was, and still is, an entry level cheap Rolex, no matter how you tart it up. However, this does cause a “bubble” of desirability for an original 1601 that has not undergone a “make-over”, principally by genuine collectors of this model saying “Ah, but mine is as it left the factory, and has its original box and papers” – like that means anything in a world of box and papers sales on fleabay

There are a few nice examples of this watch out there, but they are the exception in a market flooded by re-dials. IMO, a nice original 1601 is worth 3k at the most, (a re-dial unknown maybe 2k) - any more than that, and you can get a 160xx in the same condition for the same price. Maybe in a few years, they’ll be re-dialling 160xx’s – which will then go for significantly more

Don’t get me wrong, I paid over the odds for the watch in my avatar, but I’d never over pay for something as simple as a 1601. But then of course, if you already have one, it’s bound to be “a rare dial” example, just like all of them are, “in mint condition and never polished”

I believe that Mr Carver has one 16xx in his possession, which he is fond of posting (black face) – very nice watch – probably worth around £3k (give or take) – but that’s being realistic, which I sense this thread is not about ……
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Old 15 May 2019, 12:25 AM   #27
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[QUOTE=Richard Carver;9632507]Firstly, I would never go on a public forum and call a stranger a liar, not only does it indicate incredible stupidity it can get you banned.

Would you care to make a friendly 100,000 US dollar bet that I can produce these watches for a suitable 3rd party to authenticate? Or are you simply just another worthless internet troll? :)




Those are some cool collection of Cotton Bowl rolexes. How did you get a collection like that? Did you go to Nebraska or Texas?
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Old 15 May 2019, 01:54 AM   #28
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[QUOTE=tkc324;9634618]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Carver View Post
Firstly, I would never go on a public forum and call a stranger a liar, not only does it indicate incredible stupidity it can get you banned.

Would you care to make a friendly 100,000 US dollar bet that I can produce these watches for a suitable 3rd party to authenticate? Or are you simply just another worthless internet troll? :)




Those are some cool collection of Cotton Bowl rolexes. How did you get a collection like that? Did you go to Nebraska or Texas?
I'm from Texas so the Cotton Bowl has been a part of my life forever. When I found out they had awarded Rolex and Tudor to the teams between '67 and '76 it became an enjoyable pursuit to try to track down as many as I could. This was in the mid aughts and prices weren't as crazy as today.

I got most of them but as I acquired them I posted pics and sellers started upping the prices when 'that nut from Texas' started nosing around. I ended my quest when some jerk offered me a clapped out '67 Air King for 6 thousand. That was 10 years ago! They aren't worth that today! lol

I have a '69 1603 DJ, a loose dial from '70 I put on a 1600, a '72 34mm Tudor Date, '74 38mm Tudor 7017 and a '76 38mm Tudor 7017. A pawn dealer in Dallas had taken in a ladies Christian Dior from the 1983 CB and was kind enough to give it to me for the collection. I don't have the '67 Air King or the '68 Rolex 34mm Date. Also missing is '73 and '75. I was unable to find any information on those two years and have come to believe Rolex/Tudor was not used those years, love to be proved wrong!

I was able to get programs for each game on ebay so that makes a fairly complete package for each year.
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Old 15 May 2019, 02:43 AM   #29
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[QUOTE=Richard Carver;9634874]
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I'm from Texas so the Cotton Bowl has been a part of my life forever. When I found out they had awarded Rolex and Tudor to the teams between '67 and '76 it became an enjoyable pursuit to try to track down as many as I could. This was in the mid aughts and prices weren't as crazy as today.

I got most of them but as I acquired them I posted pics and sellers started upping the prices when 'that nut from Texas' started nosing around. I ended my quest when some jerk offered me a clapped out '67 Air King for 6 thousand. That was 10 years ago! They aren't worth that today! lol

I have a '69 1603 DJ, a loose dial from '70 I put on a 1600, a '72 34mm Tudor Date, '74 38mm Tudor 7017 and a '76 38mm Tudor 7017. A pawn dealer in Dallas had taken in a ladies Christian Dior from the 1983 CB and was kind enough to give it to me for the collection. I don't have the '67 Air King or the '68 Rolex 34mm Date. Also missing is '73 and '75. I was unable to find any information on those two years and have come to believe Rolex/Tudor was not used those years, love to be proved wrong!

I was able to get programs for each game on ebay so that makes a fairly complete package for each year.
Wow... very impressive. The company I work for is based near Austin so we have a lot of long horn/aggie alums. My boss is a Long Horn and would be jealous to see this collection! thanks for sharing. This makes me want to hunt down some co-logo DJs!
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Old 15 May 2019, 03:32 AM   #30
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[QUOTE=tkc324;9635022]
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Wow... very impressive. The company I work for is based near Austin so we have a lot of long horn/aggie alums. My boss is a Long Horn and would be jealous to see this collection! thanks for sharing. This makes me want to hunt down some co-logo DJs!
A member called Powerfunk has done an amazing job tracking down Rolex logo dials, you might find this interesting...

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=636386
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