The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Vintage Rolex Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 25 October 2019, 05:30 AM   #1
JParm
2024 Pledge Member
 
JParm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NorCal
Watch: Yes!
Posts: 6,549
Didn't all Tudor navy-issued watches come on straps?

Saw this today and was wondering if it's correct. I thought all the navy-issued Snowflakes came with welded spring bars and no bracelets?

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=704985
__________________
JParm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2019, 06:43 AM   #2
roh123
"TRF" Member
 
roh123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Real Name: Per
Location: Sweden
Watch: Gilt Rolex
Posts: 2,946
Tudor milsubs have normal springbars unlike Rolex milsubs.
__________________
Instagram: @perj123
roh123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2019, 10:27 AM   #3
Dan S
2024 Pledge Member
 
Dan S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 5,842
so the evidence that this was an issued watch is that hand-scratched number under the lug?
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG
Dan S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2019, 10:53 AM   #4
JParm
2024 Pledge Member
 
JParm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NorCal
Watch: Yes!
Posts: 6,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan S View Post
so the evidence that this was an issued watch is that hand-scratched number under the lug?
haha good point.
__________________
JParm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2019, 11:22 AM   #5
ROGERB
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Real Name: Roger
Location: WHITE ROCK BC
Watch: 89 16610, 57 7914,
Posts: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com View Post
haha good point.
Actually Cdn Navy watches are sometimes on bracelets,nylon straps, hand scratched numbers on casebacks or under lugs, all of the above has been seen. They often used the serial number from the case on the back. no fancy stamps or engravings from my experience
R
ROGERB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2019, 11:28 AM   #6
ROGERB
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Real Name: Roger
Location: WHITE ROCK BC
Watch: 89 16610, 57 7914,
Posts: 897
These are some decommissioned cdn navy subs
Sorry for the bad pic quality and I wish I had taken caseback pics but these had hand scratched numbers on them. And it was a gentleman who served in the Cdn Navy who had them!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ROGERB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2019, 11:51 AM   #7
Dan S
2024 Pledge Member
 
Dan S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 5,842
I don't doubt for a second that Canadian issued Subs sometimes had hand scratched numbers on the backs of the lugs. I'm just wondering how you authenticate them, since anyone can scratch some numbers there, and nothing in that particular listing provided any provenance or evidence. Can't compare the style of the engraving to known examples. No decom papers ... nothing.

I guess someone must know the correct serial number range at least.
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG
Dan S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2019, 01:19 PM   #8
Kingface66
2024 Pledge Member
 
Kingface66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: The Empire State
Watch: 1966 Rolex 5513
Posts: 3,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan S View Post
I don't doubt for a second that Canadian issued Subs sometimes had hand scratched numbers on the backs of the lugs. I'm just wondering how you authenticate them, since anyone can scratch some numbers there, and nothing in that particular listing provided any provenance or evidence. Can't compare the style of the engraving to known examples. No decom papers ... nothing.

I guess someone must know the correct serial number range at least.
I agree. Without any documentation, what’s to prevent someone from just scratching in a serial number close to that one.
Kingface66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2019, 01:32 PM   #9
037
2024 Pledge Member
 
037's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 6,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingface66 View Post
I agree. Without any documentation, what’s to prevent someone from just scratching in a serial number close to that one.
Heck, that's almost as easy as pad-printing TCo on a dial...
037 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2019, 01:57 PM   #10
Kingface66
2024 Pledge Member
 
Kingface66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: The Empire State
Watch: 1966 Rolex 5513
Posts: 3,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by 037 View Post
Heck, that's almost as easy as pad-printing TCo on a dial...
Now, now. Nothing is as easy as that.
Kingface66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 October 2019, 01:32 AM   #11
JParm
2024 Pledge Member
 
JParm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NorCal
Watch: Yes!
Posts: 6,549
especially at $27k...wow.
__________________
JParm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 October 2019, 02:05 AM   #12
roh123
"TRF" Member
 
roh123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Real Name: Per
Location: Sweden
Watch: Gilt Rolex
Posts: 2,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com View Post
especially at $27k...wow.
If it is a Canadian milsub; what would you say is the right price then?
__________________
Instagram: @perj123
roh123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 October 2019, 02:45 AM   #13
JParm
2024 Pledge Member
 
JParm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NorCal
Watch: Yes!
Posts: 6,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
If it is a Canadian milsub; what would you say is the right price then?
With proper paperwork and verification, maybe that's the correct price (is that what market rate is for this? I know it's nowhere near that for a regular snowflake).

Going off of someone's word and chicken scratch - FAR from that.
__________________
JParm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 October 2019, 03:41 AM   #14
roh123
"TRF" Member
 
roh123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Real Name: Per
Location: Sweden
Watch: Gilt Rolex
Posts: 2,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com View Post
With proper paperwork and verification, maybe that's the correct price (is that what market rate is for this? I know it's nowhere near that for a regular snowflake).

Going off of someone's word and chicken scratch - FAR from that.
Well.. Either you believe in it or you do not. Don’t really see a middle way.
__________________
Instagram: @perj123
roh123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 October 2019, 03:44 AM   #15
JParm
2024 Pledge Member
 
JParm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NorCal
Watch: Yes!
Posts: 6,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
Well.. Either you believe in it or you do not. Don’t really see a middle way.
I don't disagree - but that's a large monetary mistake if the seller's description and buyer's belief is wrong.
__________________
JParm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 October 2019, 06:05 AM   #16
Dan S
2024 Pledge Member
 
Dan S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 5,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com View Post
I don't disagree - but that's a large monetary mistake if the seller's description and buyer's belief is wrong.
Yes, and then how will you convince the next buyer that it's legit?
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG
Dan S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 October 2019, 08:42 AM   #17
JParm
2024 Pledge Member
 
JParm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NorCal
Watch: Yes!
Posts: 6,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan S View Post
Yes, and then how will you convince the next buyer that it's legit?
"but the dealer said..."
__________________
JParm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 November 2019, 02:32 AM   #18
saskmh
"TRF" Member
 
saskmh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,027
Sorry I'm late to this conversation.

Tudor subs that were issued by the Royal Canadian Navy were marked in various ways. The database has versions that have various types of markings from hand engraved issue numbers to a small batch that were machine stamped. None of the known watches in the database have any engravings on the lugs. They were only marked on the casebacks. and as was mentioned above, many were not marked at all. The particular watch in this listing has a refinished case and the hand engraved number on the lug is extremely fresh looking. I have checked the serial against the known models in the database and it is not close to any confirmed RCN issued watch. This variation of the Tudor sub was not made strictly for the Navy either. It was used for a time by the Canadian navy but it was also available for sale through any dealer on the street.

If this particular watch is in fact a RCN issued watch, I would need to see some additional information to confirm it. The condition of the case and the number engraved on the lug leave me quite suspicious at the moment.

If this watch is one of the ones
__________________
RCN (Canadian) Tudor Milsub database co-manager
saskmh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 November 2019, 02:41 AM   #19
saskmh
"TRF" Member
 
saskmh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,027
The only current way to 100% confirm a Tudor as a Canadian Navy issued one is the stamped caseback. We have a number of models in the database and can compare macro photos of the stampings to confirm authenticity to these known examples.
__________________
RCN (Canadian) Tudor Milsub database co-manager
saskmh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 November 2019, 02:44 AM   #20
saskmh
"TRF" Member
 
saskmh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,027
To answer the original question.... the RCN issued Tudor Subs were issued primarily with bracelets. Most divers however switched to nylon straps.
__________________
RCN (Canadian) Tudor Milsub database co-manager
saskmh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 November 2019, 03:49 AM   #21
offrdmania
2024 Pledge Member
 
offrdmania's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Real Name: Matt
Location: Wine Country, Ca
Posts: 5,810
I have some ocean front property in Kansas for sale. There is a hand written sign out front that says "Ocean".
__________________
TRF Member 11738
offrdmania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 July 2022, 06:51 AM   #22
Rdmanzer
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by saskmh View Post
Sorry I'm late to this conversation.

Tudor subs that were issued by the Royal Canadian Navy were marked in various ways. The database has versions that have various types of markings from hand engraved issue numbers to a small batch that were machine stamped. None of the known watches in the database have any engravings on the lugs. They were only marked on the casebacks. and as was mentioned above, many were not marked at all. The particular watch in this listing has a refinished case and the hand engraved number on the lug is extremely fresh looking. I have checked the serial against the known models in the database and it is not close to any confirmed RCN issued watch. This variation of the Tudor sub was not made strictly for the Navy either. It was used for a time by the Canadian navy but it was also available for sale through any dealer on the street.

If this particular watch is in fact a RCN issued watch, I would need to see some additional information to confirm it. The condition of the case and the number engraved on the lug leave me quite suspicious at the moment.

If this watch is one of the ones
I know it’s an old thread but I have recently been gifted a RCN Tudor milsub with the lolipop hands circa 1984. The rescue diver who was issued the watch certainly used it. The watch continued to be his dive watch well into his seventies as he travelled the world training other military rescue divers. I have some humourous stories of how he treated it and the watch itself confirms this. I currently wear it on leather until I can get the bracelet fitting properly. I would be interested in knowing how I can contribute to the database. The RCN diver took this watch on some well profiled missions and I am interested in having that permanently captured somewhere outside of pictures of medals and commendation plaques. I hope this reply can set that in motion!
Rdmanzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 July 2022, 01:54 PM   #23
Styles Bitchley
"TRF" Member
 
Styles Bitchley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Canada
Watch: 1680
Posts: 1,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdmanzer View Post
I know it’s an old thread but I have recently been gifted a RCN Tudor milsub with the lolipop hands circa 1984. The rescue diver who was issued the watch certainly used it. The watch continued to be his dive watch well into his seventies as he travelled the world training other military rescue divers. I have some humourous stories of how he treated it and the watch itself confirms this. I currently wear it on leather until I can get the bracelet fitting properly. I would be interested in knowing how I can contribute to the database. The RCN diver took this watch on some well profiled missions and I am interested in having that permanently captured somewhere outside of pictures of medals and commendation plaques. I hope this reply can set that in motion!


Yeah. I wish there was more information available about these. Most is just surface information about their existence, in general. Would be great if you could share what you know about your example. Some pics would be nice too!

You may want to send a direct message to the gentleman who posted on this thread and identifies himself as co manager of the database.
Styles Bitchley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 July 2022, 11:09 PM   #24
linesiders
2024 Pledge Member
 
linesiders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: RedSox Nation
Watch: U Talkn Bout Wilis
Posts: 5,418
Try to document (if not too late) photos with the watch being worn in service. If the service member is still alive it would be great to have a document written and signed by the owner with a brief history of that person's service and that of the watch. It is important from a value standpoint (I don't care) but very important from a history standpoint (I care very much).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley View Post
Yeah. I wish there was more information available about these. Most is just surface information about their existence, in general. Would be great if you could share what you know about your example. Some pics would be nice too!

You may want to send a direct message to the gentleman who posted on this thread and identifies himself as co manager of the database.

^^^ this
__________________
I'm a sailor peg. And I've lost my leg. Climbing up the top sails. I've lost my leg!
linesiders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 July 2022, 05:18 AM   #25
Rdmanzer
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by linesiders View Post
Try to document (if not too late) photos with the watch being worn in service. If the service member is still alive it would be great to have a document written and signed by the owner with a brief history of that person's service and that of the watch. It is important from a value standpoint (I don't care) but very important from a history standpoint (I care very much).




^^^ this
Thanks for the hints. I think I have prominence covered with service records and photos. Commendations for SAR missions like the Ocean Ranger disaster and Arrow flight 1285 as the first respondent are among the documents. The history of service fascinates me. I don’t have a PhD but will try to get a photo posted!
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 6EF8F48A-3913-4022-9297-1C4500C00211.jpeg (245.4 KB, 53 views)
Rdmanzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

Bobs Watches

My Watch LLC

OCWatches

DavidSW Watches

Coronet


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.