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Old 26 October 2008, 12:14 AM   #61
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Hi Ryan

Again, I have to respectfully disagree. Here are some comparison pics of my YM & ROO. The 40mm Yacht Master has great proportions and has as much presence as a 44mm ROO. This is true of all 40mm Sport Rolex's.

Apologies for the poor pics.


The Royal Oaks have small dials as well though as their bezel and casing take up a lot of the diameter.

Just doing a quick check on my digi verniers and the 40mm Sub LV has a dial diameter of around 28mm, the crystal is 30mm in diameter but the engraved ring under the glass takes up around 1mm either side. The Panerai has a crystal that is 32.7mm and the dial is the full size of the crystal, so that's 4mm difference in the size of dial on a 40mm PAM and a 40mm Rolex Sport.
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Old 26 October 2008, 12:22 AM   #62
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Hi Ryan

Again, I have to respectfully disagree. Here are some comparison pics of my YM & ROO. The 40mm Yacht Master has great proportions and has as much presence as a 44mm ROO. This is true of all 40mm Sport Rolex's.

Apologies for the poor pics.


I would add that if you want to get rid of the ROO then drop me a PM and i'll try to find a good home for it
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Old 26 October 2008, 12:27 AM   #63
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Look carefully.... the Rolex is on the far right >>>
I don't understand your point. What's the significance of the Rolex being on the right...?

You also stated previously:

"In a table shot the Rollies are always on the fringes, with the PAMs taking centre stage."

In my pic the YM is at a Panerai gathering, so of course the Pam's are going to be placed together, unless someone will try & be different by mixing the watches up a bit.
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Old 26 October 2008, 12:28 AM   #64
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I would add that if you want to get rid of the ROO then drop me a PM and i'll try to find a good home for it
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Old 26 October 2008, 12:30 AM   #65
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I may even swap you a fabled Panerai
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Old 26 October 2008, 12:33 AM   #66
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I may even swap you a fabled Panerai
Only if it's a 203.
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Old 26 October 2008, 12:40 AM   #67
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My personal observation from my collection which consists of PAMs and several rollies including two ss Daytonas is the rollies stay in the case period. After wearing the PAMs they just appear out of place and small. Just my preferences.
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Old 26 October 2008, 01:15 AM   #68
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where?
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Old 26 October 2008, 01:20 AM   #69
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Honestly Panerai growing more and more on me.
What do you think Guys, should I trade my Sub LV & ND COSC with 232 or not? Good deal or not?
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Old 26 October 2008, 01:26 AM   #70
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Honestly Panerai growing more and more on me.
What do you think Guys, should I trade my Sub LV & ND COSC with 232 or not? Good deal or not?
Fantastic deal! the 232 will never be produced again and will continue to increase in value!
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Old 26 October 2008, 01:33 AM   #71
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Fantastic deal! the 232 will never be produced again and will continue to increase in value!
2 Subs for one Pannie? I really confused.
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Old 26 October 2008, 01:34 AM   #72
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If I do that, no more Rolex left in my collection.
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Old 26 October 2008, 02:05 AM   #73
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If I do that, no more Rolex left in my collection.

Don't do it or try to sell another watch, i've found to much cost that you cannot, ever, ever, ever let yourself get down to zero Rolexes, ADs can smell when you have no rolexes in your collection and manipulate you until your bank is empty!
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Old 26 October 2008, 02:14 AM   #74
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Don't do it or try to sell another watch, i've found to much cost that you cannot, ever, ever, ever let yourself get down to zero Rolexes, ADs can smell when you have no rolexes in your collection and manipulate you until your bank is empty!
already empty...
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Old 26 October 2008, 02:17 AM   #75
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already empty...

They'll open up a new line of credit just for the Rolexless
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Old 26 October 2008, 02:58 AM   #76
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Honestly Panerai growing more and more on me.
What do you think Guys, should I trade my Sub LV & ND COSC with 232 or not? Good deal or not?
232 ?? ...... I would !!!:thumbs up:
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Old 26 October 2008, 03:01 AM   #77
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They'll open up a new line of credit just for the Rolexless
I always pay cash.
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Old 26 October 2008, 03:10 AM   #78
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I always pay cash.
Ahmen Brother !! Cash is King !!!!


.... considering the way the world is now,shall we say,a bit credit heavy ??? ...Cash is not only king,its the whole royal family !!!
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Old 26 October 2008, 11:50 AM   #79
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You know, as briefly mentioned in post above, Panerai really does not have a history of it's own until the 1990s. And Panerai owns much of it's success to Sly, along with Reichmont. The original Panerais were actually more Rolex than Panerai. Rolex made cases, Rolex made movements. So, most of Panerai's military history is actually Rolex history. One could even go as far as to say, that Panerais of today, except for the models with the in-house movements, are actually just cheap replicas of the original Rolex designed, manufactured, and Rolex movement Panerais of the 1930, 40s, and 50s.

So one could say correctly, that Panerai grew from Rolex and Rolex is the parent of Panerai. Very close connection between Rolex and Panerai.

Now that is a Panerai I would like to see again! New standard issue Panerais with Rolex movements! And if I had the funds, I would love to get a model 21. !!
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Old 26 October 2008, 11:53 AM   #80
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TR, trading the Sub LV and Sub No Date for a 232 would not be a good deal at all. I think in the future you will see the ND COSC Sub increase in value. And the current market value of the Sub LV and Sub ND exceeds the current market value of a 232 by several thousand dollars USA. Plus, as much as the 232 is a rally nice looking watch, the Subs are much more rugged. IMHO the Sub No-Date COSC rated watch is probably one fo the toughest dive watches out there these days. A real classic.
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Old 26 October 2008, 01:37 PM   #81
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You know, as briefly mentioned in post above, Panerai really does not have a history of it's own until the 1990s. And Panerai owns much of it's success to Sly, along with Reichmont. The original Panerais were actually more Rolex than Panerai. Rolex made cases, Rolex made movements. So, most of Panerai's military history is actually Rolex history. One could even go as far as to say, that Panerais of today, except for the models with the in-house movements, are actually just cheap replicas of the original Rolex designed, manufactured, and Rolex movement Panerais of the 1930, 40s, and 50s.

So one could say correctly, that Panerai grew from Rolex and Rolex is the parent of Panerai. Very close connection between Rolex and Panerai.

Now that is a Panerai I would like to see again! New standard issue Panerais with Rolex movements! And if I had the funds, I would love to get a model 21. !!
Johann Rupert (Richemont) bought the Panerai brandname for GBP 2 million.

Even in this American housing credit bubble induced worldwide financial and economic recession,a PAM 21 is going to need a lot of funds.

Have you sold your PAMs yet ?
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Old 26 October 2008, 03:38 PM   #82
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So one could say correctly, that Panerai grew from Rolex and Rolex is the parent of Panerai. Very close connection between Rolex and Panerai.

Now that is a Panerai I would like to see again! New standard issue Panerais with Rolex movements! And if I had the funds, I would love to get a model 21. !!
X2!!! Agree with you, Chad!!!

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TR, trading the Sub LV and Sub No Date for a 232 would not be a good deal at all. I think in the future you will see the ND COSC Sub increase in value. And the current market value of the Sub LV and Sub ND exceeds the current market value of a 232 by several thousand dollars USA. Plus, as much as the 232 is a rally nice looking watch, the Subs are much more rugged. IMHO the Sub No-Date COSC rated watch is probably one fo the toughest dive watches out there these days. A real classic.
Thanks for your advice.
I still consider that.
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Old 26 October 2008, 11:26 PM   #83
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No, have not sold my Panerais off yet, but several are posted for sale. Currently have 4 Panerai. Need to sell off 2-3 of them, and keep only 1-2, to get funds for Graduate School. For my collection now, after selling the Panerai, will have 1 Panerai, 1 Blancpain, 1 Glashutte, and 1 IWC. All 44mm, except the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms which is 45mm, but wears like a 44.
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Old 26 October 2008, 11:31 PM   #84
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You know, as briefly mentioned in post above, Panerai really does not have a history of it's own until the 1990s. And Panerai owns much of it's success to Sly, along with Reichmont. The original Panerais were actually more Rolex than Panerai. Rolex made cases, Rolex made movements. So, most of Panerai's military history is actually Rolex history. One could even go as far as to say, that Panerais of today, except for the models with the in-house movements, are actually just cheap replicas of the original Rolex designed, manufactured, and Rolex movement Panerais of the 1930, 40s, and 50s.

So one could say correctly, that Panerai grew from Rolex and Rolex is the parent of Panerai. Very close connection between Rolex and Panerai.

Now that is a Panerai I would like to see again! New standard issue Panerais with Rolex movements! And if I had the funds, I would love to get a model 21. !!
At last- someone with an accurate sense of Panerai history & not just banging on about Panerai being the best!
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Old 26 October 2008, 11:58 PM   #85
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Well, let me clarify, what I did mean by "cheap" replicas does not mean that Panerais are not solid, good quality and fine looking watches (I have several), but that instead of a expensive Rolex movement inside or a In-house movement, they use a inexpensive (cheap) Unitas movement. So IMHO this makes it more of a re-creation or replica, though still made by the name Panerai (though the company is basically brand new from the 90s. In actuality, most of the old Panerai roots if you trace the Tree, go to Anomino watches. Which is where the Panerai designers, managers and watchmakers of Panerai split off when Panerai became Post-V and moved to Switzerland) Now Unitas movement do have some advantages, in that since it is such a "common" movement, most any watchmaker can fix. But, I would like to see Panerai switch out from using any Unitas movement, and go instead with all in house movement, or JLC or IWC movement in their watches. Now for around the same price as a 232(or a little more), one can get a 242 Radiomir. Much better bang for the buck, as this Radiomir has a Superb JLC movement inside. ANd do not tell me Panerai could not do that at a fraction of the price of their current in-house line up. JLC and IWC both make some outstanding superb watches, with their rugged in house movement, and charge around the same price as Panerai Base or Contempory models that have Unitas or ETA movements. Being that IWC, JLC, Panerai (along with Cartier and a few others) are all owned by Richemont should be an easy fix. Matter of fact, I will be talking with Mr Rupert in a couple of weeks, so might mention this idea to him. Hint, hint.

Now if you really want to talk insane, it is people paying $50K for a 201A made in 1994! Hardly a vintage watch. And no different than a current 111 or 112, other than the older one has a painted tritium dial that does not even glow anymore and is flaking off. $50K for a Panerai from the 1940s, I can see that. But one with a ETA movement from 1995??!!! If I was fortunate to have one, I would sell it in a heartbeat to the fool who would pay $50K for my 1995 watch, buy a BNIB 111 or 112 and then pocket the rest of the money! Just like th enew LE 26, though a great watch, is just a 219 that is PVD coated and then cost around $4k more. I say buy a 219, send to Jack at IWW and for $500 have him PVD coat it!
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Old 27 October 2008, 12:25 AM   #86
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Who can say one watch is better than another? The question was simply is Panerai on par with Rolex. To me they are apple and oranges. Panerai will never produce a fraction of the quantity as Rolex therefore will never be as popular. Rolex makes great movements but does that make the watch more desirable? Panerai is putting some interesting movements in some of their watches (Minerva) and increasingly producing their own movements. I would argue that Panerai can never be like Rolex but can be more desirable and equal in quality. There currently is not a Rolex that I do not own that I wish to currently purchase. I have several PAMs on order. I am fortunate that I can purchase what I want and am not restricted. To me Panerai is more desirable and some models are as good if not better. Just my few cents.
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Old 27 October 2008, 12:51 AM   #87
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At last- someone with an accurate sense of Panerai history & not just banging on about Panerai being the best!
"The best" is not an exact science,its just personal opinion.It cant be proven and there are so many nice brands in the world,that it would be crazy to even try and say what is really the best.What makes you "tick",is the best for you.
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Old 27 October 2008, 01:02 AM   #88
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Well, let me clarify, what I did mean by "cheap" replicas does not mean that Panerais are not solid, good quality and fine looking watches (I have several), but that instead of a expensive Rolex movement inside or a In-house movement, they use a inexpensive (cheap) Unitas movement. So IMHO this makes it more of a re-creation or replica, though still made by the name Panerai (though the company is basically brand new from the 90s. In actuality, most of the old Panerai roots if you trace the Tree, go to Anomino watches. Which is where the Panerai designers, managers and watchmakers of Panerai split off when Panerai became Post-V and moved to Switzerland) Now Unitas movement do have some advantages, in that since it is such a "common" movement, most any watchmaker can fix. But, I would like to see Panerai switch out from using any Unitas movement, and go instead with all in house movement, or JLC or IWC movement in their watches. Now for around the same price as a 232(or a little more), one can get a 242 Radiomir. Much better bang for the buck, as this Radiomir has a Superb JLC movement inside. ANd do not tell me Panerai could not do that at a fraction of the price of their current in-house line up. JLC and IWC both make some outstanding superb watches, with their rugged in house movement, and charge around the same price as Panerai Base or Contempory models that have Unitas or ETA movements. Being that IWC, JLC, Panerai (along with Cartier and a few others) are all owned by Richemont should be an easy fix. Matter of fact, I will be talking with Mr Rupert in a couple of weeks, so might mention this idea to him. Hint, hint.

Now if you really want to talk insane, it is people paying $50K for a 201A made in 1994! Hardly a vintage watch. And no different than a current 111 or 112, other than the older one has a painted tritium dial that does not even glow anymore and is flaking off. $50K for a Panerai from the 1940s, I can see that. But one with a ETA movement from 1995??!!! If I was fortunate to have one, I would sell it in a heartbeat to the fool who would pay $50K for my 1995 watch, buy a BNIB 111 or 112 and then pocket the rest of the money! Just like th enew LE 26, though a great watch, is just a 219 that is PVD coated and then cost around $4k more. I say buy a 219, send to Jack at IWW and for $500 have him PVD coat it!
Hey Chad,just mention the word "Springbok" to Mr Rupert and you might just land a 203 ..

True on the 242.I have found mine to be extremely accurate.One of the most accurate watches I have owned.

The 26 ? Not too fond of that one.Personal opinion.I think pvd may just be the most impractical finish for a watch.

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Old 27 October 2008, 01:23 AM   #89
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No, have not sold my Panerais off yet, but several are posted for sale. Currently have 4 Panerai. Need to sell off 2-3 of them, and keep only 1-2, to get funds for Graduate School. For my collection now, after selling the Panerai, will have 1 Panerai, 1 Blancpain, 1 Glashutte, and 1 IWC. All 44mm, except the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms which is 45mm, but wears like a 44.
FF? Nice!!!
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Old 27 October 2008, 05:17 AM   #90
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Well, let me clarify, what I did mean by "cheap" replicas does not mean that Panerais are not solid, good quality and fine looking watches (I have several), but that instead of a expensive Rolex movement inside or a In-house movement, they use a inexpensive (cheap) Unitas movement. So IMHO this makes it more of a re-creation or replica, though still made by the name Panerai (though the company is basically brand new from the 90s. In actuality, most of the old Panerai roots if you trace the Tree, go to Anomino watches. Which is where the Panerai designers, managers and watchmakers of Panerai split off when Panerai became Post-V and moved to Switzerland) Now Unitas movement do have some advantages, in that since it is such a "common" movement, most any watchmaker can fix. But, I would like to see Panerai switch out from using any Unitas movement, and go instead with all in house movement, or JLC or IWC movement in their watches. Now for around the same price as a 232(or a little more), one can get a 242 Radiomir. Much better bang for the buck, as this Radiomir has a Superb JLC movement inside. ANd do not tell me Panerai could not do that at a fraction of the price of their current in-house line up. JLC and IWC both make some outstanding superb watches, with their rugged in house movement, and charge around the same price as Panerai Base or Contempory models that have Unitas or ETA movements. Being that IWC, JLC, Panerai (along with Cartier and a few others) are all owned by Richemont should be an easy fix. Matter of fact, I will be talking with Mr Rupert in a couple of weeks, so might mention this idea to him. Hint, hint.

Now if you really want to talk insane, it is people paying $50K for a 201A made in 1994! Hardly a vintage watch. And no different than a current 111 or 112, other than the older one has a painted tritium dial that does not even glow anymore and is flaking off. $50K for a Panerai from the 1940s, I can see that. But one with a ETA movement from 1995??!!! If I was fortunate to have one, I would sell it in a heartbeat to the fool who would pay $50K for my 1995 watch, buy a BNIB 111 or 112 and then pocket the rest of the money! Just like th enew LE 26, though a great watch, is just a 219 that is PVD coated and then cost around $4k more. I say buy a 219, send to Jack at IWW and for $500 have him PVD coat it!

So does this mean a $250k Patek 5004 is a cheap imitation because it uses a base Lemania movement? Does this mean the watch is a Lemania and not a Patek?
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