Beacon Hill Jewelers holding my watch hostage

[andromeda160]

Long story short I sold a watch on here, ad the buyer filed a chargeback through his CC company. The original payment was through PayPal. Despite evidence supporting me, the CC company refunded him. When I asked him to send me my watch back he sent a rude message stating he would do me no favors and I could have fedex come pickup package the watch and ship it ect. But he wouldn't ship it out. Furthermore he said it would be another month before I could do so because he hasn't recieved a letter from his CC company stating its been settled despite PayPal telling me it's done and can't be reversed. He won't respond to messages and I'm running out of ideas on what to do. He has a B&M business which is why I find it odd he would steal my $950 watch. What recourse do I have to take? He's in a different state then me as well if that makes a difference.

[Knappo 1307]

First off, you really need to out this person. I'm not a big fan of it usually, but from what you have said a warning needs to go out. I realize there are 2 sides to every story, but I believe you are a stand up guy and think something odd is going on. With that person being know, it may speed up the process of you getting your watch back.
What was the reason for the chargeback? In any case if he doesn't release the watch, I suppose you contact his local police dept. Good luck

[andromeda160]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

First off, you really need to out this person. I'm not a big fan of it usually, but from what you have said a warning needs to go out. I realize there are 2 sides to every story, but I believe you are a stand up guy and think something odd is going on. With that person being know, it may speed up the process of you getting your watch back.
What was the reason for the chargeback? In any case if he doesn't release the watch, I suppose you contact his local police dept. Good luck

Chargeback was because the buyer expected me to pay for parts for a watch I sold as non running and rough condition.

As for outting him, If I don't receive a proper response from him in the next few days I will. At this point I don't think it will improve the chances of me getting my watch back. And I'm not out to ruin his business. I didn't refund him because I, as well as a few others I spoke to, said I adequately advertised the watch. I still believe I did too, but I'm sure the CC company didn't want to piss off a business card holder. For future reference to others who sell though, make sure you have a clear return policy.

Also with the local PD route, if they retrieved my watch would it be held as evidence or something. Or would it just be transferred to a local precinct so I could provide proof of ownership.

I have the slip that was signed for the registered mail, the address, as well as business name and pics of my ad, the SN and all that good jazz so it shouldn't be too hard to prove.

[Lordofrolex]

Was he unhappy with the product? Is this how it all started? If so he probably think you tried to deceive him and doesn't want to put any time or money in getting the watch returned to you.

Thinking its your responsibility to deal with it all. i'm just trying to play devils advocate.

You've been a member for a while with plenty of posts I'm sure you did nothing wrong. Some people are just not good to deal with.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by andromeda160

Chargeback was because the buyer expected me to pay for parts for a watch I sold as non running and rough condition.

As for outting him, If I don't receive a proper response from him in the next few days I will. At this point I don't think it will improve the chances of me getting my watch back. And I'm not out to ruin his business. I didn't refund him because I, as well as a few others I spoke to, said I adequately advertised the watch. I still believe I did too, but I'm sure the CC company didn't want to piss off a business card holder. For future reference to others who sell though, make sure you have a clear return policy.

Also with the local PD route, if they retrieved my watch would it be held as evidence or something. Or would it just be transferred to a local precinct so I could provide proof of ownership.

I have the slip that was signed for the registered mail, the address, as well as business name and pics of my ad, the SN and all that good jazz so it shouldn't be too hard to prove.

Seems like he had no problem ruining your business transaction, and stealing from you. Anyway, best of luck.

[cop414]

This could be a tough one. The local PD is more likely than not going to tell you that this is civil matter and advise you to contact your attorney. You might want to swallow the $$ by hiring an attorney to send him a registered letter but with the cost of the watch you could very well be throwing good money down the drain. I'd call the your local PD, see if they will contact the PD where he is located to see if he'll send it back but I wouldn't hold my breath.
If I were you I'd also contact my local district attorney's office and run it by them, you might be pleasantly surprised there. We've had several local DA's here that would move heaven and earth for the little guy, it's all about principle, that kind of thing. Also here in PA, the DA's are elected so it's great publicity for them in this kind of situation.
With what thus guy is doing I don't think I'd be too concerned about being a nice guy with him. Good luck.

[RACER_X]

Small claims court, if it's worth your while

sent from the batcloset in the batcave on the batphone

[Old Geezer]

Sounds to me like the buyer creatively and conveniently stole your watch. In your shoes, I'd be much less patient and wouldn't care what damage I caused the buyer to retrieve my watch.
Best of luck reaching a suitable resolution.

[Danny83]

I would fly down there and pay him a visit

[Pix]

Get a cheap Southwest flight, and pay him a visit!

[mannyv11]

I think the buyer needs to be outed so no seller on this forum in their right mind agrees to ever let him buy a watch again.

[artschool]

name and shame, you have already had the argument and he has involved the CC company.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=407488

was this the watch?

[mannyv11]

also hopefully you have informed the moderation team so they can take the necessary steps.

[axjimenez]

Ouch, this happened to me a few years back. If the ad that another member posted was your ad it was crystal clear you were not paying additional for service and parts.

1: Make sure you call Paypal and lodge a complaint - You have complied with your part of the deal and been kind enough to return the funds. They may not be able to do much but inform the buyer you will be doing this.
2: Inform the buyer that you have complied and and he/she should return the watch immediately. Paypal refunds pretty quickly so there is no reason the buyer should be waiting.
3: Optional - you may want to pre-pay for shipping and send him/her the shipping order so they can simply pack it up and ship - cuts down on the excuses.
4: Provide a timeline for all of the above and inform the buyer that if this is not complied with you will be pursuing legal recourse.
5: I agree with others here that you should notify the buyer that you will be serving notice to the moderators and others here so this does not happen again.

While I advocate Paypal and I know they lean on the side of the buyer always, I also know that a bad buyer is a bad buyer. Sorry partner, this stinks.

[brandrea]

I'm sorry to hear this happened. I hope you get your watch back as quickly as possible.

[andromeda160]

Originally Posted by artschool

name and shame, you have already had the argument and he has involved the CC company.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=407488

was this the watch?

That would indeed be the watch.

Looks like I'll have to contact my local DA and PD Tomorrow. Maybe get a flight down there. what a shame, I thought it might be mail fraud, but apparently not. Thank you all for the responses. I'm fairly surprised there is no recourse, although I'd imagine him owning a brick and mortar jewelry store might give him a little persuasion to send my watch back. News of possible rolex theft can't be good for business I'd imagine

[andromeda160]

Originally Posted by cop414

This could be a tough one. The local PD is more likely than not going to tell you that this is civil matter and advise you to contact your attorney. You might want to swallow the $$ by hiring an attorney to send him a registered letter but with the cost of the watch you could very well be throwing good money down the drain. I'd call the your local PD, see if they will contact the PD where he is located to see if he'll send it back but I wouldn't hold my breath.
If I were you I'd also contact my local district attorney's office and run it by them, you might be pleasantly surprised there. We've had several local DA's here that would move heaven and earth for the little guy, it's all about principle, that kind of thing. Also here in PA, the DA's are elected so it's great publicity for them in this kind of situation.
With what thus guy is doing I don't think I'd be too concerned about being a nice guy with him. Good luck.

I was kinda afraid it would be viewed as a civil matter. Thank you for the information though, I was looking forward to hearing from some LEO's On here.

[cop414]

Originally Posted by andromeda160

I was kinda afraid it would be viewed as a civil matter. Thank you for the information though, I was looking forward to hearing from some LEO's On here.

Yea, but I'd still reach out to your DA and see what they say, all that'll cost you is some time. If you do make sure you have all your paperwork in order for them.
If the guy has said that he'll send it back once his cc co says that it's settled you might just have to wait that time out, different states would have different laws/rules for these disputes. Ck with your DA and keep us posted.

[Widows Son]

Hate to disagree with Brother Tim but, this is not a police dept matter. You entered into a contract with the buyer, if the deal fell apart, it's a civil issue. Since the CC card company and PayPal are involved, the police dept won't touch this. As a last resort there is small claims court.

[andromeda160]

Originally Posted by axjimenez

Ouch, this happened to me a few years back. If the ad that another member posted was your ad it was crystal clear you were not paying additional for service and parts.

1: Make sure you call Paypal and lodge a complaint - You have complied with your part of the deal and been kind enough to return the funds. They may not be able to do much but inform the buyer you will be doing this.
2: Inform the buyer that you have complied and and he/she should return the watch immediately. Paypal refunds pretty quickly so there is no reason the buyer should be waiting.
3: Optional - you may want to pre-pay for shipping and send him/her the shipping order so they can simply pack it up and ship - cuts down on the excuses.
4: Provide a timeline for all of the above and inform the buyer that if this is not complied with you will be pursuing legal recourse.
5: I agree with others here that you should notify the buyer that you will be serving notice to the moderators and others here so this does not happen again.

While I advocate Paypal and I know they lean on the side of the buyer always, I also know that a bad buyer is a bad buyer. Sorry partner, this stinks.

Yeah, PayPal has been less than useless. Apparently I can't try and retrieve my money since the CC company took it back and the claim wasn't filed through paypal. Then PayPal fought the CC company with my evidence on my behalf. They didn't do a good job and charged me $50 when they lost which pissed me off almost as much as not getting my watch back.

[andromeda160]

Originally Posted by cop414

Yea, but I'd still reach out to your DA and see what they say, all that'll cost you is some time. If you do make sure you have all your paperwork in order for them.
If the guy has said that he'll send it back once his cc co refunds the money you might just have to wait that time out. Ck with your DA and keep us posted.

He said he WOULDN'T Ship the watch back at all, but he won't release it to be shipped back until his CC States he's been refunded.according to him I need to have fedex come package and ship the watch for me. I have documentation that states his money's been refunded. And when I told him that he refused to reply.


... I thought it'd be fairly easy to retrieve hence my composure above. You guys are making me sweat lol time for a drink

[cop414]

Originally Posted by Widows Son

Hate to disagree with Brother Tim but, this is not a police dept matter. You entered into a contract with the buyer, if the deal fell apart, it's a civil issue. Since the CC card company and PayPal are involved, the police dept won't touch this. As a last resort there is small claims court.

Yea, I agree, here in Pa PD's do have some leeway in these matters as far as them being civil or criminal, but as I said more likely than not it'd be considered civil although I've seen some DA's work some magic in these matters.

[Etschell]

Stop using paypal bank wire only.

[Griswald]

I am sorry to hear of your trouble. Good luck and please let us know how this turns out.
While I am still a newbie, I have had 2 wonderful TRF transactions (buying) and believe that almost everyone on the forum is above board.
Griswald

[FTX I]

You described the watch perfectly. Who's the guy?

[dera]

You should name and shame the buyer. If it is a brick/mortar store, we can all order stuff from them just to return them back. If nothing else, we can at least be very annoying.

[bayerische]

Yeah name the buyer.

I suspect that something similar is happening at my latitudes at the moment.

[asleep]

The Internet has a looong memory.

I have to assume you're being wronged, having only heard one side of the story...

But word to the wise: Google'ing "watch held hostage" already brings this very thread up as the 4th result(edit, now 1st)... on Google.

If I had a brick and mortar store I'd think long and hard about withholding merchandise knowing that if the other party put the name of my business and/or my personal name in the title of a thread that I will have to answer to every potential internet-connected customer for the next 10 years or so.

My personal policy is, if I reverse a deal I pay for return shipping if I have to. Small cost in the overall picture.

So I'd give him a very short window to show proof of return shipping... before letting the "crowd" deal with him. I can promise he'll wish he had just honorably reversed the transaction.

[cornerstore]

I'm confused, does Visa not require proof of return of goods /shipping, to seller before issuing a credit as PayPal does? Otherwise everyone could keep whatever they buy on line and get a Visa credit.

[dera]

Originally Posted by bayerische

I suspect that something similar is happening at my latitudes at the moment.

Who's doing that...?
I had a close call earlier this year up your way...