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Old 1 July 2009, 03:59 AM   #1
ShiksaGrrrl
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How does pricing on Vintage watches work please?

Had a vintage gold Rolex watch but it turned out to be a manual wind when we thought it was an automatic.
Thereís no point in my getting into the whole story but suffice to say, when speaking to a vintage dealer and describing the watch, thinking it was automatic, he figured heíd be paying me anywhere from $1,500 - $1,800 dollars Canadian for this piece.

We had to go take it out from a pawn shop and some other jewellery with it first so the bill came to about $1,020.00 but when he looked at the watch, he realized and told us it was not automatic but manual so the price dropped immediately to $900 but since he had paid to get a few things out, he at that point did not feel he owed us any money but had paid an extra $100 he didnít wish to pay.

At which point because there wasnít as much value in it as previously thought, I would have given him back his money, all of it and kept the watch but he quickly left holding the watch and just wanted out of there pretending he was angry that he had paid an extra $100, not even giving me time to tell him I was going to keep the watch and give him his money, etc.

As it turns out, the watch did not have the original band but someone had put a 14 carat gold band onto it, but not with pins, but had soldered it on, although it was neatly done I gather.
This person wanted, of course, to take off the band, and buy an original Rolex band and the sell it but he treated me as if I had knowingly just ripped him off for it wasnít as we expected and he took off quickly without my being able to give him back the money to take the watch back.

So because it was a manual watch and the gold bracelet was not an original and had been soldered on that dropped the price quite a bit but otherwise the watch works.
Because of the manual setting, it dropped from a possible $1,800 to half of that price, only $900 although he had to pay $1,020.00 to get it so he felt that he had overpaid at that point.


So, in the end it weighed 67.2 grams........accounting for about 25 grams for the watch itself, figuring that the told was worth about $642 as it was 14k not 18..........at 26.00 each gram.
If one takes 42 grams at $26 and multiplies it, the figure comes out to $1,092.00 without taking into account what one would pay for the Rolex movement itself, regardless of it being a manual wind rather than an automatic.

When my partner tried to ask him how he came to the figure that he did, $900 which is less than the $1092 plus whatever he would have paid us for the movement, he quickly took off, quite angrily and said that he had over paid by $100 and now having found out that the watch was a manual wind only, he never would have given us more than $900.

Being that this was the case I would have just given him back his money and taken back the watch but he ran away right as my partner was questioning him.

From what information I have given, does this sound right, or not?

I donít see how we could have gone from just over $1000 to $600 worth of gold without any consideration for the watch itself, whether it be a manual wind or automatic?

I want to understand this first before I go further if anyone here can possibly give me any help with an answer, bearing in mind my information to you is limited.


TIA
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Old 1 July 2009, 04:33 AM   #2
drtooth73
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Thats not how you figure out the price of gold.
Lets say gold is at $1000 an ounce, so its $33 per gram.
14k is only 50% pure gold, so $16.5 per gram.
When dealers buy gold, they have to make profit, so knock off another 30%.
Essentially $400 for your band, and $500 for the movement.
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Old 1 July 2009, 10:46 AM   #3
ShiksaGrrrl
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Ok, so if I am correct, it was a fair deal for me on my end then? I wish I had had that explained to me correctly at the time if so for between the reluctance to answer my questions properly, and the sudden running off as if he were afraid of something we might do..LOL..........I was left feeling quite uneasy about the deal.

He has since contacted me and told me that he hated it as soon as he saw it but felt obliged to buy it. Why he felt this way I cannot say.
But he has offered to sell it back to me at the same price I paid, including a bit extra for his running around.........LOL



Thank you for your answer.
I have learned something from you.
I have also come to the conclusion that my watch wasnt any great deal for this person and for that I am sorry
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Old 1 July 2009, 10:51 AM   #4
ShiksaGrrrl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drtooth73 View Post
Thats not how you figure out the price of gold.
Lets say gold is at $1000 an ounce, so its $33 per gram.
14k is only 50% pure gold, so $16.5 per gram.
When dealers buy gold, they have to make profit, so knock off another 30%.
Essentially $400 for your band, and $500 for the movement.

Reading that, what this tells me really is that you are far better off selling it privately to a buyer rather than a dealer, although in this case, I likely would not have sold it for it wasn't the original band, and was soldered on, although neatly but regardless it lessened the value of the watch, nor did it have papers, or the original box, etc so it is unlikely that I, a laymen would have sold it to someone, whereas he, a dealer will be trusted by former clients, etc and can likely resell it.

Thanks again for all of your help in understanding how this worls
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Old 1 July 2009, 12:43 PM   #5
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no problem
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Old 1 July 2009, 01:07 PM   #6
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I got lost somewhere in the fourth paragraph. What is your question?
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Old 1 July 2009, 02:10 PM   #7
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I think she wants to know if she got an okay price for the watch at $1020. I don't see how we can answer that without pictures and/or a more detailed description of the watch. Frankly, I think it was foolish to sell a watch when you know so little about it and what it's worth.

Are you sure the bracelet was soldered on? Many of the older 14k gold ladies models had integrated bracelets.

Jeannie
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Old 1 July 2009, 02:56 PM   #8
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Most of our reasoning is completely irrelevant..

Jewelry, including watches, are almost never valued on the amount of gold, diamonds, or any other precious metals/ores they contain......unless you are scrapping it.. They're valued on their collectibility or desirability on the open market..

If the gentleman was a "vintage watch Dealer" then he would have known without even seeing the watch if it was manual wind or not.... cross referencing models and their movements/attributes is fairly straight forward..

The whole transaction is fishy.........

it's also not really about vintage Rolex watches...
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Old 1 July 2009, 08:38 PM   #9
ShiksaGrrrl
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yes, it was definetely soldered on and no, he wasnt able to tell beforehand if it was manual or not, until he saw it----my huband hadnt worn it for a while and seemed to remember it being automatic but it was manual in the end

he has since offered to sell it back to me for the same price as paid, with a bit extra for his running around which i doubt he would if he had "scored"


for the person unable to digest past the 4th paragraph, everyone else was able and the question had been answered so your comment was both redundant and unnecessary


and yes, unfortunately it had been soldered on
it wasnt the original bracelet
the person before had added a gold bracelet of no determination, name wise
in other words it wasnt a rolex bracelet
and could have been difficult to take off


i agree it is best to research your watches first
i sold my own rolex a week earlier
in this case i believed it was fine UNTIL the fishy moves at the end
since offering to sell it back to me at a slightly higher price ( just a tiny bit more ) to cover gas into the city twice it tells me he was fair or he wouldnt be offering it back to me

personally, i didnt like this watch and didnt think that it was special in any way

he wasnt able to cross reference the model as it wasnt in my home and we were going on memory and didnt have an idea of the model number, etc
so all i was able to do was send him a picture from the web of something "similar" so in all honesty, he was forced to guess
i was told we would get about $1,500 - $1,800 for it unless it was a manual watch but my husband was sure at that point it wasnt
so as soon as we got there it was recognized right away as a manual watch and the value went down




thanks for all of your help
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Old 1 July 2009, 11:35 PM   #10
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Who took the bracelet off, the original seller or the dealer?

In anycase it seems that you are well shot of the watch if the dealer is looking to offload it so soon.

Keep away from it and put it down to experience.
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