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Old 20 July 2019, 09:38 PM   #31
benlee
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I don't think there is actually such a thing as a list. At least, I won't have high hopes on the very hot models. My PP AD in Singapore said she has put me on the "interest list" for 5726/1a and 5231J but I am not expecting any phone calls.
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Old 20 July 2019, 09:41 PM   #32
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Used to be ADs would follow me home, force their cards into my pockets, but now suddenly I'm the stalker and have to declare my occupation and university degree.
Remember fluffers are a real job ;)
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Old 20 July 2019, 10:34 PM   #33
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I'd like to have an honest conversation with ad where they level with you on chances of getting desirable pieces ie is buying a chrono and calatrava going to cut it or how much are we talking about to get a nautilus, aqua.. Otherwise waste of time trying. So many are going out the back door these days.
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Old 20 July 2019, 10:43 PM   #34
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I'd like to have an honest conversation with ad where they level with you on chances of getting desirable pieces ie is buying a chrono and calatrava going to cut it or how much are we talking about to get a nautilus, aqua.. Otherwise waste of time trying. So many are going out the back door these days.
What’s not desirable about a chrono or a calatrava?
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Old 20 July 2019, 10:47 PM   #35
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Ha they are too but I already have them.. but I've moved around a lot. So what do you have to do to get on the list for example 5740g? I guess buy a perpetual and hope they take your business card :) I'm not local here so bottom of list.
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Old 20 July 2019, 10:54 PM   #36
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Really constructive as always!
Thanks!

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Old 20 July 2019, 11:03 PM   #37
bob101
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I don't think there is actually such a thing as a list. At least, I won't have high hopes on the very hot models. My PP AD in Singapore said she has put me on the "interest list" for 5726/1a and 5231J but I am not expecting any phone calls.
Exactly my situation. The HK VIPs get them all or out the backdoor. Sorry to be so cynical but that's the way it is :)
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Old 20 July 2019, 11:12 PM   #38
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I tell you that this is not always the case. Many ADs do not sell to greys and many look to sell pieces to people who show true passion for the brand / watch.

Last summer I walked into an AD in the UK and picked up a 5711 White dial. Yes thats right I walked into the store and they decided after some discussion to tell me they had one. The same AD called me out of the blue recently and offered me the 5712 (I had expressed interest in the watch a few months earlier but didn't expect the call).

So many ADs play by the book, look to please passionate customers and are genuinely concerned about how frustrated customers are getting with ridiculous wait times. I would hate to work in one of those showrooms right now. I sympathise with AD staff in many ways.
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Old 20 July 2019, 11:19 PM   #39
bob101
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I tell you that this is not always the case. Many ADs do not sell to greys and many look to sell pieces to people who show true passion for the brand / watch.

Last summer I walked into an AD in the UK and picked up a 5711 White dial. Yes thats right I walked into the store and they decided after some discussion to tell me they had one. The same AD called me out of the blue recently and offered me the 5712 (I had expressed interest in the watch a few months earlier but didn't expect the call).

So many ADs play by the book, look to please passionate customers and are genuinely concerned about how frustrated customers are getting with ridiculous wait times. I would hate to work in one of those showrooms right now. I sympathise with AD staff in many ways.
Sounds awesome congrats. I'll probably go grey on my next purchase as Ive had enough of dealing with them. I've even had people laughing at my face and telling me.no chance as I don't have Hong Kong ID. Anyway rant over :)
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Old 20 July 2019, 11:21 PM   #40
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There might be some upgrades to a new but very similar type watch as the Nautilus line has been around for decades. I doubt they will ever discontinue the line but there may be new refence numbers on the new models.

I heard they are actually delivering more SS models but demand is so high, they are all still unobtainable at retail without a long history.
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Old 20 July 2019, 11:27 PM   #41
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I'd like to have an honest conversation with ad where they level with you on chances of getting desirable pieces ie is buying a chrono and calatrava going to cut it or how much are we talking about to get a nautilus, aqua.. Otherwise waste of time trying. So many are going out the back door these days.
I really cannot agree with much of what you said. Chronos and Calatravas are very desirable. I do not believe much if any SS are going out the back door by ADs. Patek dealers are elite jewelers who highly value their Patek AD status. By delivering hot pieces to their best clientele, they can then sell them the rare very expensive application pieces where the profit is in the hundreds of thousands on just one watch.
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Old 20 July 2019, 11:33 PM   #42
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I really cannot agree with much of what you said. Chronos and Calatravas are very desirable. I do not believe much if any SS are going out the back door by ADs. Patek dealers are elite jewelers who highly value their Patek AD status. By delivering hot pieces to their best clientele, they can then sell them the rare very expensive application pieces where the profit is in the hundreds of thousands on just one watch.
I didn't say calatrava or chronos aren't desirable, I said the desirable or hot pieces here are near enough impossible to get. If I already have calatrava and chrono pieces, should I have to buy some more or watches I don't want in order to get on a "list" for others I have little or no chance of obtaining? Hence my comments about honesty.
Perhaps in US re Patek dealers, not the case in Asia. Why do I see so many Patek "new" for sale in HK and mainland China with Grey's if that's the case and why aren't they doing anything about it. I can walk down Grey's and see nautilus aqua with June and July 2019 papers. These aren't real customers they are going to. I saw a blue 5726 with May papers from local AD for 1m HKD. Who sells that same week they get it?
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Old 20 July 2019, 11:41 PM   #43
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Remember fluffers are a real job ;)


A really important one for some industries I’ll add.
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Old 20 July 2019, 11:50 PM   #44
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Really constructive as always!
Agreed!
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Old 21 July 2019, 01:15 AM   #45
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I didn't say calatrava or chronos aren't desirable, I said the desirable or hot pieces here are near enough impossible to get. If I already have calatrava and chrono pieces, should I have to buy some more or watches I don't want in order to get on a "list" for others I have little or no chance of obtaining? Hence my comments about honesty.
Perhaps in US re Patek dealers, not the case in Asia. Why do I see so many Patek "new" for sale in HK and mainland China with Grey's if that's the case and why aren't they doing anything about it. I can walk down Grey's and see nautilus aqua with June and July 2019 papers. These aren't real customers they are going to. I saw a blue 5726 with May papers from local AD for 1m HKD. Who sells that same week they get it?
It is hard to say but I think most watches being sold as "new" were actually retailed to a real customer whose name is on the dated COO. Hence the "May papers". With this market people who have waited for years for a piece upon getting it research the market and succumb to the massive quick profit to be had is my guess. Another aspect of this is acquisition of a desirable steel watch enables that lucky owner to trade it towards a much for valuable piece in terms of MSRP and complications. When you can even for PCC, things get very interesting.
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Old 21 July 2019, 01:33 AM   #46
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As much as I loathe some AD tactics I wouldn’t want to have to sort through buyers vs professional flippers. Tough to tell who is an excellent customer and who is a profiteer these days and at the end of the day you are there for one reason only. To sell watches.
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Old 21 July 2019, 01:34 AM   #47
bob101
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It is hard to say but I think most watches being sold as "new" were actually retailed to a real customer whose name is on the dated COO. Hence the "May papers". With this market people who have waited for years for a piece upon getting it research the market and succumb to the massive quick profit to be had is my guess. Another aspect of this is acquisition of a desirable steel watch enables that lucky owner to trade it towards a much for valuable piece in terms of MSRP and complications. When you can even for PCC, things get very interesting.
Perhaps you're right I can't fathom why any VIP or long waiting customer would get such a piece then flip it, especially in HK.
To be honest Im about done with Patek ADs.
I'll get one or two pieces used then moving on to a nice Breguet and some other vintage stuff.
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Old 21 July 2019, 01:44 AM   #48
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However it has become apparent to me that pretty much all Patek ADs also sell to grey these days especially given the fantastic margins.
This isn't correct. My AD is constantly concerned with customers flipping watches, because he doesn't want Patek to yank his franchise if they suspect he's doing exactly what you think is happening. That's why people with no or little history with an AD have zero chance of getting these watches, it's too much of a risk. The other major reason this isn't happening is they want to keep inventory around for whales, they make up the lost margins on dress pieces and jewelry.
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Old 21 July 2019, 01:48 AM   #49
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As much as I loathe some AD tactics I wouldn’t want to have to sort through buyers vs professional flippers. Tough to tell who is an excellent customer and who is a profiteer these days and at the end of the day you are there for one reason only. To sell watches.
This can be easily tracked with owner registration or re registration via Patek site among other methods.
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Old 21 July 2019, 03:22 AM   #50
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The lists are not closed because they don't really exist - at least not in the way a list would normally work with the first to ask being the first to receive.
If you are asking is it possible to order a 5711 or 5712, unfortunately that will simply depend on your AD relationship.
I doubt they are about to be discontinued, the 5711 has just had it's movement updated to the latest hacking version.
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Go to the nearest Patek AD. Speak with them and make them understand you aren’t a flipper, you are a watch lover.

On today’s crazy market about Nautilus for any AD this is the more important thing they want to know: that you aren’t a flipper and try to reach one only to earn money.

Believe me if they are convinced of this you will reach one soon.
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Old 21 July 2019, 03:28 AM   #51
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For those of you living in Hong Kong, now may be a good time to "strengthen" your relationship with your AD / or to start a relationship.

A recent chat with my AD - with the recent protests in HK, business is suffering, fewer tourists from China, locals aren't buying much either .... I have not seen so many watches on display at my AD. Visits to other ADs in HK show the same picture, with lots of unsold inventory in the cabinets. (Compared to say the period around May, when my AD only had one or two watches on display in the whole shop as everything was sold out!)

My AD was so quiet and empty during my 1.5 hour visit a few days ago - apart from tourists coming in and asking for the 5711/5712.

I just put my name down for a perpetual for my birthday. She asks me to re-re-re-consider the 5711 blue but I decline again - the blue really isn't the shade of blue that I like (I much prefer 5740's blue). I told her I might get the 5164 now that I have the blue 5650 strap ... but I am in no hurry.

I chat with a friend that I introduced to my AD and he told me the same persuasion by my salesperson to get the 5711, which she almost guaranteed he could get in a few months. My friend's first purchase was a perpetual and then followed up by the 5270 salmon. But again my friend has no interest in the 5711which he finds too boring - "wasted real estate" in his words - he likes busy dials, the busier the better.

My takeaway is that ADs are scared of selling 5711 and hot pieces to unfamiliar clients for the fear of flipping and damaging the AD's reputation with Patek. That's even with the business card vetting by Libertas here in HK (the local equivalent of Rhone / HSWA).

[EDIT: Please do not contact me asking me to help you get the 5711 or other watches. Thanks!]

Last edited by qrc36; 21 July 2019 at 03:37 AM.. Reason: Adding the friendly reminder on the last line.
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Old 21 July 2019, 04:04 AM   #52
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I think we all have to accept the fact the list is just a bunch of people that want it. However it has become apparent to me that pretty much all Patek ADs also sell to grey these days especially given the fantastic margins. I will take a quick stab at my estimates:

1) I venture a guess that 35-40% of all Patek Aquanauts and Nautilus go to Grey that buy in bulk or multiple watches from Patek or other brands carried by the AD. This might be as high as 50%.

If its a smaller Patek AD you may have a better chance.
It is highly unlikely this would happen in the UK. Rhone (the UK distributor) tightly regulates the UK ADs and they would inform the AD if they find out (they will find out when the new owner registers the watch) a customer had sold a watch soon after buying it. If this happens regularly at a particular AD or with a particular customer the AD will need to provide an explanation and risk loosing the dealership. Therefore it is highly unlikely owners or senior managers of ADs would sell Nautilus/Aquanauts directly to grey market in the UK.
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Old 21 July 2019, 05:29 AM   #53
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Old 21 July 2019, 08:13 AM   #54
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There are certainly some veterans here on this subject but my limited experience is that there is a waitlist. But, like anything in life, there are those that can jump the line. I am no VIP and my first Patek is the 5168g. It was hard getting it and it took a lot of polite convincing of an AD that finally wanted my business. I had gone to three others that flat out ignored me. I’ll be sticking with this AD for the long run. I remain on their waitlist for a blue 5711 and the new blue 5726. Let’s see if I actually get a call one day. I remain hopeful.


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Old 21 July 2019, 08:15 AM   #55
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So with all the talk about how ADs would never sell to greys at risk of losing their Patek (or Rolex) relationship... And if ADs only sell these sport models to their VIP customers whom they trust...

Why do some greys have 5 or 6 of the same "rare" Nautilus, brand new, stamped within the past couple months?

Riddle me this. :)
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Old 21 July 2019, 08:25 AM   #56
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They really need to discontinue the 5711 in steel. It no longer makes any sense for Patek to have this watch as an “entry level” given the demand for it and the bizarre pricing it commands. They should force people to buy complications if they want a steel Nautilus; and if they don’t want a complication then force them into a PM 5711.
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Old 21 July 2019, 08:47 AM   #57
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So with all the talk about how ADs would never sell to greys at risk of losing their Patek (or Rolex) relationship... And if ADs only sell these sport models to their VIP customers whom they trust...

Why do some greys have 5 or 6 of the same "rare" Nautilus, brand new, stamped within the past couple months?

Riddle me this. :)


Why do you assume VIPs don’t flip? Even “honest” and “trustworthy” VIPs are going to be tempted by the insane prices today and the possibility of flipping for double what they paid..... in the words of Mulder, trust noone




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Old 21 July 2019, 10:58 AM   #58
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Why do you assume VIPs don’t flip? Even “honest” and “trustworthy” VIPs are going to be tempted by the insane prices today and the possibility of flipping for double what they paid..... in the words of Mulder, trust noone
I don't. :)

Everyone else on TRF seems to.
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Old 21 July 2019, 12:53 PM   #59
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So with all the talk about how ADs would never sell to greys at risk of losing their Patek (or Rolex) relationship... And if ADs only sell these sport models to their VIP customers whom they trust...

Why do some greys have 5 or 6 of the same "rare" Nautilus, brand new, stamped within the past couple months?

Riddle me this. :)
My thoughts too. If authorize dealers not selling to greys how on earth these greys manage to get stock?
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Old 21 July 2019, 01:52 PM   #60
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There is no list. If you spend a bunch of money on low demand models then magically you're at the top of the "list". Greys are definitely getting it from ADs somehow indirectly, which is making everything worse.
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