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Old 28 November 2016, 01:57 PM   #31
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Since when is Patek a member of the Richemont "family"?

Last I heard the Stern family still managed it.
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Old 28 November 2016, 03:03 PM   #32
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That's not what the member said or even intimated — you're reading it wrong.
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Old 4 July 2017, 10:42 AM   #33
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I looked at the Polo over the weekend. $9K+ and $12K+ for the chrono. They were nice, but I felt half the price is in the brand name for implied exclusivity. Lots of other watches in that price range I like better. The attraction to it for me was the similarity to the PP's. but on the wrist it really doesn't measure up.

I'm sure richemont has looked at the models from higher end brands and tried to capture those looks in the lower end. Makes sense if, as suggested above, they are struggling.
I tried on both and found they are actually pretty nice, especially considering both can be had for a $3k discount in the grey market.

Having said that, I would rather buy a GMT Master II BLNR (which I have) instead of the Polo for a few thousand more...
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Old 19 October 2017, 07:33 AM   #34
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Surely the Polo case is based on the Piaget Emperador case shape as much as anything and I don't think that has much to do with a PP Nautilus. Does a VC Patrimony look like a JLC or vice versa and so on. Many watches share styling cues. Reality is nearly every 3 sub dial valjoux 72 based chronograph from the sixties shared a "look". It was a design fashion. I saw an interview with J C Biver who said that everyone at AP thought the Nautilus was a RO inspired watch when it came out, though I think they are quite different but yes share some styling elements. Every second "Calatrava" style dress watch shares a certain look too.
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Old 19 October 2017, 11:42 AM   #35
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I doubt investors are telling the brands how to design watches. If they're all making bulky sport watches, it's because the market is demanding it
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Old 19 October 2017, 12:24 PM   #36
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Surely the Polo case is based on the Piaget Emperador case shape as much as anything and I don't think that has much to do with a PP Nautilus. Does a VC Patrimony look like a JLC or vice versa and so on. Many watches share styling cues. Reality is nearly every 3 sub dial valjoux 72 based chronograph from the sixties shared a "look". It was a design fashion. I saw an interview with J C Biver who said that everyone at AP thought the Nautilus was a RO inspired watch when it came out, though I think they are quite different but yes share some styling elements. Every second "Calatrava" style dress watch shares a certain look too.
that's because it is
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Old 22 October 2017, 10:46 AM   #37
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that's because it is
Indeed and of course the RO and the Nautilus both had JLC derived movements whereas the Polo S has an in-house movement designed for the watch and a case derived from an original Piaget design and it's less than half the price of the others yet gets canned all over the place! Interesting.

Piaget watches need to be seen in the real life to be appreciated. Piaget is a true manufacture with a history of quality and innovation and respect in the industry on many levels. Their watches tend to have a jewellery element to them, or to actually be jewellery, nothing wrong with that, it's the house style, you like the pieces or not.

Mea culpa. I own an Altiplano. It's a fabulous and beautiful watch, it had to be, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it!
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Old 4 November 2017, 04:17 AM   #38
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Well, the FF came before the Submariner. One can say that they were developed at the same time, independently, and that is perhaps a fair statement.
The FF did not come before the submariner. The submariner was not inspired by the FF. The submariner was based on the Rolex Turnograph which came the same year as the FF and looks nothing like the FF. I cant believe this misinformation still continues. Down below is pic of the turnograph, the original inspiration for the most iconic diver of all times. Blancpain and the FF soon entered bankruptcy after its release, before being resurrected as a zombie brand a few years ago.
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File Type: jpg RX6202-TURN-O-GRAPH-01.jpg (38.7 KB, 255 views)
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Old 4 November 2017, 12:17 PM   #39
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The FF did not come before the submariner. The submariner was not inspired by the FF. The submariner was based on the Rolex Turnograph which came the same year as the FF and looks nothing like the FF. I cant believe this misinformation still continues. Down below is pic of the turnograph, the original inspiration for the most iconic diver of all times. Blancpain and the FF soon entered bankruptcy after its release, before being resurrected as a zombie brand a few years ago.
My bad. I did some further reading, I believe you are correct.
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Old 5 November 2017, 08:51 AM   #40
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The FF did not come before the submariner. The submariner was not inspired by the FF. The submariner was based on the Rolex Turnograph which came the same year as the FF and looks nothing like the FF. I cant believe this misinformation still continues. Down below is pic of the turnograph, the original inspiration for the most iconic diver of all times. Blancpain and the FF soon entered bankruptcy after its release, before being resurrected as a zombie brand a few years ago.
Excellent information here! I didn’t know this.
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Old 5 November 2017, 09:27 AM   #41
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Excellent information here! I didn’t know this.
Blancpain was effectively resurrected or perhaps reinvented but it was 25 years ago now. Not that any of this has much to do with Richemont though.

Richemont owns some historically significant and important brands, question is where are they going with them and that it appears that they all compete with each other.

A. Lange & Söhne
Cartier
IWC Schaffhausen
Jaeger-LeCoultre
Panerai
Piaget
Vacheron Constantin
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Old 5 November 2017, 09:35 AM   #42
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The FF did not come before the submariner. The submariner was not inspired by the FF. The submariner was based on the Rolex Turnograph which came the same year as the FF and looks nothing like the FF. I cant believe this misinformation still continues. Down below is pic of the turnograph, the original inspiration for the most iconic diver of all times. Blancpain and the FF soon entered bankruptcy after its release, before being resurrected as a zombie brand a few years ago.
I thought they went under in the 70's due to the quartz crisis. Then they were revived sometime in the 80s. I've also never seen evidence that the Submariner hit the market first.

Why do we need to undermine Blancpain's strong history of producing dive watches?
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Old 5 November 2017, 10:31 AM   #43
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Contrary to common belief, the first "real" diver's watch has not been the Rolex Submariner but rather the Fifty Fathoms from 1953. It was the "FF" which by some forty years has preceded (and outlined) the modern ISO 6425 standard, the standard which defines the characteristics of the modern dive watch. Why does that matter? Because it was this model which first comprised nearly all technical solutions, details which enabled wristwatches to be used for professional and hobby dives alike.
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Old 5 November 2017, 10:34 AM   #44
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Blancpain was the first to create a modern dive watch.

A year later, in 1954, Rolex unveiled the Submariner – arguably the most recognizable watch in the world – and the quest to improve the dive watch has never stopped since.

So, who won?
In short, Rolex created the first waterproof case, forcing Omega to think of a way to come up with their own design, which led to the ‘case on case’ patent, hence, creating the first dive watch in the technical sense.

Panerai did not believe the Omega to be good enough for the Italian Navy, and so, decided to strike a partnership with Rolex, resulting in the first military dive watch.

Blancpain, having observed all of the above, set about improving the original incarnations and came out with the first modern dive watch.

No one company deserves more credit than the other. They were all great watchmakers who were working collectively (though unknowingly) to create that one watch that could go as deep as possible.

Hope that clears the air. The next time you hear a debate raging on among the Rolex, Panerai, Blancpain and Omega loyalists, let them know that they were all first, albeit in different ways.
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Old 5 November 2017, 11:03 PM   #45
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I looked at the Polo over the weekend. $9K+ and $12K+ for the chrono. They were nice, but I felt half the price is in the brand name for implied exclusivity. Lots of other watches in that price range I like better. The attraction to it for me was the similarity to the PP's. but on the wrist it really doesn't measure up.

I'm sure richemont has looked at the models from higher end brands and tried to capture those looks in the lower end. Makes sense if, as suggested above, they are struggling.
Totally agree with this !!!
Higher brand models captured at a lower price point .
Thus no creativity, let’s just mimick what works already !!!
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Old 5 November 2017, 11:07 PM   #46
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The FF did not come before the submariner. The submariner was not inspired by the FF. The submariner was based on the Rolex Turnograph which came the same year as the FF and looks nothing like the FF. I cant believe this misinformation still continues. Down below is pic of the turnograph, the original inspiration for the most iconic diver of all times. Blancpain and the FF soon entered bankruptcy after its release, before being resurrected as a zombie brand a few years ago.
Wow , what a gem of new info !!!
I also didn’t know this as well ... Thanks for sharing!!!
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Old 6 November 2017, 12:11 AM   #47
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Blancpain was the first to create a modern dive watch.

A year later, in 1954, Rolex unveiled the Submariner – arguably the most recognizable watch in the world – and the quest to improve the dive watch has never stopped since.

So, who won?
In short, Rolex created the first waterproof case, forcing Omega to think of a way to come up with their own design, which led to the ‘case on case’ patent, hence, creating the first dive watch in the technical sense.

Panerai did not believe the Omega to be good enough for the Italian Navy, and so, decided to strike a partnership with Rolex, resulting in the first military dive watch.

Blancpain, having observed all of the above, set about improving the original incarnations and came out with the first modern dive watch.

No one company deserves more credit than the other. They were all great watchmakers who were working collectively (though unknowingly) to create that one watch that could go as deep as possible.

Hope that clears the air. The next time you hear a debate raging on among the Rolex, Panerai, Blancpain and Omega loyalists, let them know that they were all first, albeit in different ways.
First of all thank you for the detailed post. I think I need to clarify what I posted and it is my bad for not being concise enough. Secondly after re reading what I wrote I apologize for ranting about Blancpains failed business past. This was borne out of frustration, and I will explain why.

I am sure like many of you, we belong to several different watch forums. I am sure some of you may have noticed the "reverse snobbery" towards Rolex. People who want to find any reason to undermine the brand, without knowledge or facts. One of their favourite tunes is to say the Submariner was "inspired" or is a homage or copy of the FF because it was first. It is really frustrating to see this non fact being touted on a Rolex forum no less.

Was the FF before the Submariner. Yes. Was it before the Turn O Graph I pictured earlier? They were released the same year. My point is though, I am not sure who was "first" and that is not I am concerned with. Its the idea that somehow the FF was an inspiration for the Sub is not true.

The Rolex Submariner is pure design excellence. It created the modern concept of wearing sport watches and is one of the most iconic watches of all time. It was based on the Rolex Turn O Graph design, which has nothing to do with the FF. The Sub's vaunted status was earned by Rolex and Rolex alone and not at all due to the FF.

I am sure Blancpain makes fine watches, again apologies for being so abrupt about the brand.
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Old 6 November 2017, 12:57 AM   #48
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Just because some companies engage in plagiarism doesn't mean that they all do. And there is such a thing as originality, rare though it may be in the watch world. ;)
Patek copied the Nautilus from the AP Royal Oak, or was it vice versa?

There's some evidence that Rolex borrowed elements of the Submariner from the Fifty-Fathoms, as noted above.

Even the larger case-size craze started somewhere and the rest of the industry got on board.

Plagiarism is not the word that applies here.
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Old 6 November 2017, 02:05 AM   #49
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Patek copied the Nautilus from the AP Royal Oak, or was it vice versa?

Plagiarism is not the word that applies here.
Neither, Gerald Genta designed both for them, 4 years apart, as well as the Ingenieur for IWC.
Copying a design or function has been ongoing for longer than anyone cares to remember, but no-one passes off someone else's idea as their own. Patents get licenced, like Cartier did for sister brand IWC regarding the quick strap change mechanism on the Aquatimer.
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Old 6 November 2017, 07:45 AM   #50
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Patek copied the Nautilus from the AP Royal Oak, or was it vice versa?

There's some evidence that Rolex borrowed elements of the Submariner from the Fifty-Fathoms, as noted above.

Even the larger case-size craze started somewhere and the rest of the industry got on board.

Plagiarism is not the word that applies here.
Weren't they both inspired by the Panerai Mare Nostrum anyway which was developed decades earlier!
Mare Nostrum, Royal Oak, Nautilus, deck officer, diving helmet, porthole...
The arguments are fairly hyperbolic. In the end it's all marketing!
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Old 11 November 2017, 12:02 AM   #51
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Patek copied the Nautilus from the AP Royal Oak, or was it vice versa?

There's some evidence that Rolex borrowed elements of the Submariner from the Fifty-Fathoms, as noted above.

Even the larger case-size craze started somewhere and the rest of the industry got on board.

Plagiarism is not the word that applies here.
Lots of misinformation here; I'll address it point by point.

1) As mentioned above, the Nautilus and the Royal Oak were both designed by the same person, and there's no doubt about which came first. The Royal Oak is the originator of the genre of luxury steel sporty watches, and predates the weaker Nautilus by four years.

2) There's no evidence whatsoever that the Submariner borrowed elements from the Fifty Fathoms. The Sub was a minor evolution with a new name of 1953's near-identical Turn-O-Graph.

Here's another image in case you missed the one earlier in the thread:



3) When referring to the Piaget Polo, the term is entirely appropriate, as that watch is an obvious example of straight-up plagiarism.
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Old 11 November 2017, 03:43 AM   #52
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Plagiarism is a term that applies to the copying or appropriation of written work or ideas.

Who designed the first black dial chronograph with 3 white sub dials? Was every watch with that layout that followed a copy? From a few metres away they all look pretty much the same.

Who designed the first white dial chronograph with blue and red scales printed on the dial?

Who invented the first wrist watch with a rectangular case?

Who designed the first skeleton watch?

Piaget Polo S is as much a fusion of their own long running Polo series and their own Emperador design melded into a Stainless case as anything else. Is the result a similar look to another well known watch? Perhaps but people say that watch was unoriginal as they said about other watches that followed and so on.

Many watches carry design elements similar to others, that make them look similar in many respects. Many of the interesting and beautiful watches coming from smaller specialist producers carry elements of inspiration from watches that came before.

I got this one from the bible! "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun."
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Old 11 November 2017, 08:06 PM   #53
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Actual inspiration is one thing, but the lame-o Polo S is as derivative and uninspired as it gets — it might as well be called the "Aqua-not". (The dial clearly says "Not-ilus", though.)

It's a completely meaningless and forgettable watch.
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Old 11 November 2017, 09:17 PM   #54
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Actual inspiration is one thing, but the lame-o Polo S is as derivative and uninspired as it gets — it might as well be called the "Aqua-not". (The dial clearly says "Not-ilus", though.)

It's a completely meaningless and forgettable watch.
Hmm. Sounds like you won't be buying one then! It's actually a pretty good watch and less derivative than you state, it also has a lovely in house movement. It's worth looking at Piaget's history http://m.int.piaget.com/history

Speaking of derivative, I guess you won't be digging this range then? https://www.girard-perregaux.com/en/discover-laureato
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Old 12 November 2017, 03:06 AM   #55
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Of course whilst the RO predates the GP by several years it has been noted to me that the RO was highly derivative of the Zenith Defy which predates the RO by several years. It was an oversized Stainless steel luxury sports watch with a waterproof case, in house automatic movement, semi integrated bracelet and an octagonal case and multi faceted bezel. Espada then added the fully integrated bracelet, and hi best automatic chronograph by 1970. So even the venerable RO was far from being as highly original as seemes to often be proposed.
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Old 12 November 2017, 03:07 AM   #56
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Old 12 November 2017, 03:29 AM   #57
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Actual inspiration is one thing, but the lame-o Polo S is as derivative and uninspired as it gets — it might as well be called the "Aqua-not". (The dial clearly says "Not-ilus", though.)

It's a completely meaningless and forgettable watch.
Have to agree. I saw it in person at the Piaget boutique and it’s as unremarkable as they come. Looks like something you’d see in he case at saks off fifth for $200.

Who on earth would buy one? I challenge anyone who owns one to post a wrist shot lol
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Old 12 November 2017, 07:44 AM   #58
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Have to agree. I saw it in person at the Piaget boutique and it’s as unremarkable as they come. Looks like something you’d see in he case at saks off fifth for $200.

Who on earth would buy one? I challenge anyone who owns one to post a wrist shot lol
To quote McEnroe, "you cannot be serious!" I would disagree without hesitation and your assertion is a bit silly frankly. I have also handled one and it is probably no more or less remarkable than most mid price stainless steel Swiss watches, actually i will amend that, the dial finish is better than most. Check out the dial quality on the JLC master stainless models, now that's rather unremarkable. Pick up a stainless RO, fine but unremarkable at around $20,000! Whilst on the subject handle a Patek Aquanaut, again $20k, the price is the only remarkable thing about it!

There seems to be a bit of pejorative commentary on Piaget, largely unjustified IMO. Does it look like a Nautilus? Yes somewhat but probably no more than a lot of watches look somewhat like each other. Is it going to be a winner for Piaget? Who knows. For those wanting to read a review of the Polo S, see here. http://timeandtidewatches.com/in-dep...ange-the-game/ As always YMMV.
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Old 12 November 2017, 07:03 PM   #59
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Have to agree. I saw it in person at the Piaget boutique and it’s as unremarkable as they come. Looks like something you’d see in he case at saks off fifth for $200.

Who on earth would buy one? I challenge anyone who owns one to post a wrist shot lol
i agree, but in truth Hublot has made a very successful go of taking existing ideas, repackaging, and putting them in a lower price point.

Big bangs are very similar to AP ROO
Spirit of Big Bang is very RM
Classic Fusion is very Royal Oak
The MP line is very Urwerk
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Old 15 November 2017, 03:43 AM   #60
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Lots of misinformation here; I'll address it point by point.

1) As mentioned above, the Nautilus and the Royal Oak were both designed by the same person, and there's no doubt about which came first. The Royal Oak is the originator of the genre of luxury steel sporty watches, and predates the weaker Nautilus by four years.

2) There's no evidence whatsoever that the Submariner borrowed elements from the Fifty Fathoms. The Sub was a minor evolution with a new name of 1953's near-identical Turn-O-Graph.

Here's another image in case you missed the one earlier in the thread:

3) When referring to the Piaget Polo, the term is entirely appropriate, as that watch is an obvious example of straight-up plagiarism.
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Neither, Gerald Genta designed both for them, 4 years apart, as well as the Ingenieur for IWC.
Copying a design or function has been ongoing for longer than anyone cares to remember, but no-one passes off someone else's idea as their own. Patents get licenced, like Cartier did for sister brand IWC regarding the quick strap change mechanism on the Aquatimer.
Perhaps Jean-Claude Biver can explain to you about the borrowing of ideas among luxury watch makers.
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