Are we as a community too focused on value retention?

[tng11]

With what seems like about 1/3rd of the most recent threads being about whether X will hold its value, whether X will drop or increase in value, I've started to wonder as a community, have we become too hyper focused on value retention at the expense of our enjoyment of our watches, and other pieces we may like, but won't buy because we will take a "bath" on them.

Plenty of things we enjoy in this world lose some (or all) of their value once enjoyed. Cars are a good example. Furniture, clothes, etc., all of that stuff practically plummets once used even one time. But we buy them because we enjoy (or need) them. And why should watches be any different? Why are we as a community seemingly so fearful of losing even a penny on what we pay for watch? Yes, I get that they are a luxury good, and that it's not a great feeling to lose money on something we've shelled out dearly for, but again, there's lots of luxuries where we spend money, enjoy thoroughly and have no residual value to show at the end for it.

I will admit that I myself am completely guilty of a hyperfocus on value retention. Clearly through my collection, I have only bought pieces that I (and many others) will agree hold their value, and all have increased in value since I've bought them. There are many other pieces from brands like IWC and Vacheron that I would love to own, but I would never touch because of their poor resale value and illiquid markets. And that hyperfocus also leads me to arguably, enjoy my watches less, as I am afraid to scratch or "rough" up my pieces, or take all the plastic off, all in the aim of retaining their value. I feel more like a watch "speculator" more than a "collector" at this point.

I will also admit that I would probably change my buying habits drastically if the watches I had didn't retain their value - I would think a lot more carefully and do a lot more due diligence before pulling the trigger, whereas I'm dropping thousands of dollars in a split-second decision because of that safety net. And to that end, it's allowed me to cycle through a number of pieces to really nail down what I like in a watch, as even hours in an AD can only tell you so much.

[Chewbacca]

There's an element to what you say but I think the majority buy what they like and have a varied collection. But that doesn't mean people throw money away.

The whole TS grey dealer thing started as a bypas to AD pricing and other things. It's now more a client service and familiarity thing, but regulars still expect the deal.

But, most here have the means to take losses on toys, so the odd low desire models value adjustment isn't a killer if bought new. And if it is, they should probably prioritize elsewhere.

[Monte Cristo]

You have a valid point OP and I share many of your sentiments.

I have sometimes fallen into the trap of trying to analyse what I like vs what will hold its value...unfortunately this then turns into analysis paralysis where I can’t decide and then move onto a totally different piece all together

...and then the cycle continues once more

[AK797]

We weren't before but now it is such a huge part of watch ownership in this hyped market that it is inevitable. People are fascinated by their hobbies but often even more by money.

Scorsese in Quiz Show says it perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYEJGLURIBE

[Roger Lococco]

I think a bit for sure. Personally, I find it odd to see threads where someone has the opportunity to buy a watch that they never really considered before and want to know if they should or not - primarily because it's a hard to find reference.

[horseShu]

I was just thinking...

If someone bought a watch for its resale value... then it's likely that he'll get bored with it, "it doesn't sing to me" yada yada...

and then he'll flip it.

and buy another one, again with 'resale value' as his top criteria.

and the cycle continues.

what we have now is a flipper. Rolex's worst enemy.

Starting to wonder if Rolex secretly tells the ADs *not* to sell to WIS.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by AK797

We weren't before but now it is such a huge part of watch ownership in this hyped market that it is inevitable. People are fascinated by their hobbies but often even more by money.

Scorsese in Quiz Show says it perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYEJGLURIBE

Before this hyped market, almost every brand of watch was in play for me. I had a far more open mind. Now, I knew that buying new would be a disaster for many brands, so I was always scouring Sales Corner ads and picked up all kinds of pieces, such as a VC Overseas, Breguet Marine, Roger Dubuis Easy Diver, and so on. I didn't want to throw my money on the street, but I didn't mind a modest loss on resale.

Now the market is such that it's created an extreme degree of polarization around the hyped pieces and the non-hyped ones. Many Rolex, AP and PP models have seen prices skyrocket, while plenty of pieces that used to be more popular (e.g. the IWC Big Pilot) are almost like toxic waste and have remained stagnant, or even fallen in value. And then that leads to a further cycle of people parking their cash in the hyped pieces and widening the gap between the haves and have-nots.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by Roger Lococco

I think a bit for sure. Personally, I find it odd to see threads where someone has the opportunity to buy a watch that they never really considered before and want to know if they should or not - primarily because it's a hard to find reference.

This. I've seen lots of people telling a story of simply buying because they were offered a rare piece, and plenty of members telling others to buy simply because of the opportunity, and not because they actually want the watch.

Again, I am guilty as charged of the above.

[busytimmy]

Yes, and it’s quite tasteless and cringeworthy imho.


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[Andad]

Is there someone on the forum who is not interested in value retention?

[T-Bag]

Yes. Life is short

[GradyPhilpott]

Some members definitely are too focused on resale value.

I like the idea that my watches will have value 20 years from now, but that value won't benefit me.

I hope my heirs appreciate my sense of style, value, and practicality.

[liuk3]

I don't really feel affected by the value appreciation or depreciation in the watches I purchase. These are luxury toys to me, not investment vehicles. I love my watches, bought them because of some emotional connection to them, and don't plan on ever selling any of them. The value of the watch to me is what I deem it is. If the actual price is higher, then I don't buy it. However, what I've found shocking are the crazy price appreciations in the secondary markets for some of the pieces and the inadequate supply of the one or two watches I would like to have the option to buy. The good thing is that there are (and have been) very few watches that have sung enough to me that I have passionately wanted at what I would consider a reasonable price. For that I am thankful.

[El-Duderino]

Yeah, to a point, I agree with you. However, the poor value retention of some brands/models that I am interested in usually just mean I wait until LNIB versions show up instead of buying them new. I don’t avoid them altogether. And once I have them, I enjoy the hell out of them.

However, the craziness that is the pre-owned Rolex market right now has led me to simply buy new Rolex as there is currently almost no benefit in getting a LNIB model. In regards to Rolex specifically, I guess I totally agree with your statement: I’d love to wear/enjoy some older models (16710 Coke, 16570 Polar, etc.) but I refuse to pay the currently inflated prices because of value retention concerns.


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[c41006]

Too focused on it? Maybe yes but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think about it at all.

[MinMay]

yep. If watch is worthless then I’m sure 75% of the population wouldn’t buy one.

[77T]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Is there someone on the forum who is not interested in value retention?

Me...

I want value growth...


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[77T]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

Some members definitely are too focused on resale value.



I like the idea that my watches will have value 20 years from now, but that value won't benefit me.



I hope my heirs appreciate my sense of style, value, and practicality.

Yes that’s the growth I’m looking for. One day my grandson’s son will say...what is this old thing?

And some watchmaker may say “a million dollars, son”.


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[pigman08]

I'm toiling with this issue right now in trying to decide whether to keep my 116520 or trade it for a 16710 plus 3k... The way the Daytona has taken off in value since it was discontinued has me wanting to keep it, but I believe that I'd appreciate the functionality of the GMT and enjoy wearing it more than the Daytona... I believe that a little self-reflection on my part is in order, and that I need to figure out if I want to enjoy a GMT now, or enjoy the thought of the future cash value of the Daytona.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Roger Lococco

I think a bit for sure. Personally, I find it odd to see threads where someone has the opportunity to buy a watch that they never really considered before and want to know if they should or not - primarily because it's a hard to find reference.

Took the words right out of my mouth

I agree with you Tom.

I much prefer threads where the OP has found the “perfect watch for them” and discusses the passion they have for the brand and model they chose, reasons why etc.

[Old Expat Beast]

The financial aspect of Rolex watches is, sadly, and in one one way or another, the most talked about around here these days.

[kaien]

I feel like the residual value is important to me, but what's odd about that is that I didn't buy my pieces with the intent to ever sell.

Maybe it's just the idea that, if I were to ever sell, I'd know that I could resell without losing too much value.

[fishingbear]

I will agree that a lot of members definitely are too focused on resale value.
I’ve always bought my watches based on what watches appeal to my tastes, how they end up in value is completely secondary to me.
The brand Rolex generally takes care of the latter part of that comment.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by kaien

I feel like the residual value is important to me, but what's odd about that is that I didn't buy my pieces with the intent to ever sell.

Maybe it's just the idea that, if I were to ever sell, I'd know that I could resell without losing too much value.

You've touched on an important point - it seems to raise the question as to why is resale value almost a primary consideration for some, unless their intent is to simply resell down the line? And then why buy in the first place?

At least speaking for myself, I think it's a mix of me having a short attention span with some of the shiny trinkets that I have, bragging rights, and possibly biting off more watch than I can chew or afford - know that if SHTF, I could cash in my collection on a rainy day.

Resale undoubtedly is a consideration for most - but it seems almost contrary to the point of being a real enthusiast when it is basically the primary consideration.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by 77T

Yes that’s the growth I’m looking for. One day my grandson’s son will say...what is this old thing?

And some watchmaker may say “a million dollars, son”.


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[tng11]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

The financial aspect of Rolex watches is, sadly, and in one one way or another, the most talked about around here these days.

Thanks for your insight Adam - the last few months and weeks especially are what prompted me to make this thread. Almost every single thread inevitably goes to a discussion of the financial aspect, which is pretty disappointing. The same points are repeated ad nauseam. Whatever happened to the more interesting technical discussion, the nitty gritty, the quirks of the watches themselves? I realize they still exist, but they are buried in the mountain of discussion of the financial aspect. This board almost reads more like a discussion board for stocks rather than watches!

[McLovin]

Yes, and frankly it leaves the impression that a lot of people "investing" in watches really can't afford them.

[superstarmar]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

The financial aspect of Rolex watches is, sadly, and in one one way or another, the most talked about around here these days.

Agreed Adam !!!! Albeit look where prices have soared to !!!
It’s quite perplexing at times ...

[Dr.Smellody]

I don't think a third of posts are about a "watch holding value," but will add.... Why would anyone buy something they do not plan to keep forever? To weird.... I imagine they get new cars annually too. Weird.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by tng11

Thanks for your insight Adam - the last few months and weeks especially are what prompted me to make this thread. Almost every single thread inevitably goes to a discussion of the financial aspect, which is pretty disappointing. The same points are repeated ad nauseam. Whatever happened to the more interesting technical discussion, the nitty gritty, the quirks of the watches themselves? I realize they still exist, but they are buried in the mountain of discussion of the financial aspect. This board almost reads more like a discussion board for stocks rather than watches!

This is why I spend more time in the non-Rolex section now. Vintage Rolex collecting is a hornet's nest and modern Rolex collecting is a rat race.