Are we as a community too focused on value retention?

[Onikage]

It will always draw people to the hobby. I think it's a good thing. There's a youtube vid called something like 'How to get a FREE Rolex (Rich people's Secret)' where a guy got into the hobby aware that there was at least some value retention, bought a 16610LV and a 16710 some years back, sold/traded them both for a BLNR + cash = FREE BLNR. How can that be a bad thing? Illustrates perfectly to the ignorant non-wis that the hobby isn't a rich tosser's willy waving exercise, at least for some of us.

[Timetracker]

I believe for many, it’s a method to rationalize the purchase. For me, life is far too short. The meaningful possessions I’ve been lucky enough to acquire are for my enjoyment while I’m here. It’s a nice thought if my family gets any enjoyment out of them when I’m gone, but that wasn’t a consideration for me when I went after them.

[sevykor]

The only value that has been important to me is the sentimental value. Every scratch, scuff and dent builds on that value. I have always had a hard time enjoying possessions intended as investments. Life’s to short to obsess resale value (unless that was the only intention of the purchase).


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[jrs146]

It’s par for the course when you’re dealing with expensive luxury items. Of course you have a percentage of rolex owners who truly don’t care about price but the reality is there are many many people who wouldn’t touch a Rolex if it had terrible resale value. I don’t necessarily see that as a bad thing. We absolutely know Rolex doesn’t see it as a bad thing either as much of their current supply play is only helping prove they want their watches to be of value.

They being said I totally agree that specifically on this forum the question of future value, appreciation, investment etc. has become insidious. It makes for pretty dull conversation and moves us away from actually discussing watches.

Personally, I’d be in favor of a forum rule where you can’t discuss specific dollar amounts. I know that wouldn’t go over well but it may reduce some of the how much should I pay threads etc.


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[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by jrs146

It’s par for the course when you’re dealing with expensive luxury items. Of course you have a percentage of rolex owners who truly don’t care about price but the reality is there are many many people who wouldn’t touch a Rolex if it had terrible resale value. I don’t necessarily see that as a bad thing. We absolutely know Rolex doesn’t see it as a bad thing either as much of their current supply play is only helping prove they want their watches to be of value.

They being said I totally agree that specifically on this forum the question of future value, appreciation, investment etc. has become insidious. It makes for pretty dull conversation and moves us away from actually discussing watches.

Personally, I’d be in favor of a forum rule where you can’t discuss specific dollar amounts. I know that wouldn’t go over well but it may reduce some of the how much should I pay threads etc.


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It's a great thing that Rolex resale value helps a lot of people get into, and stay in, watch collecting who wouldn't otherwise, and I was one of them. It's just that lately it (resale/investment,etc) seems to have become the single most discussed aspect of Rolex, and it's getting really boring.

[samshah]

I definitely feel it has...as others astutely pointed to in the thread, it feels as though the hunt, deal and next big trophy are paramount.

Honestly, if spent as much time as I did on this site instead researching stocks, ETFs, etc. value retention of my timepiece would be completely irrelevant.

[BNABOD]

Would agree, there are way too many threads asking if x will go up because it might become discontinued or if y is a good investment....Seems to take away the enjoyment of the hobby.
Having said this am I influenced by watches that would lose 60% of their value if bought new yes I am .
As an example I love the blue dialed Girard Perregaux Laureato but knowing it will lose 40% as soon as I walk out of the ad as prevented me from getting one so I wait for one around 6k or even less used because they will get there ....
So to me value retention is not so much why I buy a watch but why I don’t buy them new.


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[jrs146]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

It's just that lately it (resale/investment,etc) seems to have become the single most discussed aspect of Rolex, and it's getting really boring.

I totally agree.



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[binarycache]

Not to mention all the speculations that turn out to be very wrong. I almost passed on my SD43 from my AD nine months ago because all the haters were saying how much lower the price would be on the used market because they would be so plentiful....

[christopheran]

I like the fact that if I buy the “hot” Rolex models I can resell for as much or more than I paid at the AD if the watch isn’t the right fit for me. With many other brands I’d end up keeping the watch even if I don’t love it just to not lose a ton of money.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

This is why I spend more time in the non-Rolex section now. Vintage Rolex collecting is a hornet's nest and modern Rolex collecting is a rat race.

And you are entitled to you opinion.

So buying modern Rolex watches puts me in your rat race....well...ok.

But are we in the majority here?

[101031-28]

I buy Rolex professionals because I truly love the product and the fact that most retain value (in fact increase it) is a big plus. I agree 100% with OP that lately the obsession with value retention has guided some of my buying choices as well as make me afraid to wear certain pieces, remove plastics etc etc for fear of reducing their future value. Thank you OP for expressing my thoughts precisely, glad I'm not the only one who feels this way

[sensui]

I'd be lying if I said it's not on my mind. Like all hobbies (especially collecting types)...you are playing a game to win. So part of that is minimizing loss along the way as you move add/sell watches. This way you can keep playing!

I prefer doing my research always and know the reason I'm privileged enough to play this game is from hard earned work...so I'm never about throwing money away. I have plenty of watches that aren't big appreciating pieces per say but I love them and they were most likely bought "right" (grey/used) to minimize loss if I ever sell.

Buy what you like, not what others tell you or what you think you can sell for down the road....just buy right. Do your homework.

[uber]

I suppose the value proposition of Rolex is that you are unlikely to take a huge hit because the value will always be the same or (very marginally) less or possibly a tad more than you paid.... making cost of ownership a balance sheet vs P&L discussion.... now that is out of the way move on, unless something fundamentally undermines that premise.... it would be great to spend 99% of my time on the forum reading and learning about history, features, oddities and style.

[tomchicago]

They're obsessed with it.

[cchris]

I think some people are interested in value retention for different reasons.

It may be they’re unsure they can truly afford it and anticipate having to flip it(esp with market uncertainly lately!) Or they may just know themselves and that they’ll get bored and will be flipping in X months for Y watch. And Some may be interested in flipping for profit for hot items.

A good mix of these has different effects on the secondary market and that benefits us.

[Roger Lococco]

I guess there are at least 2 versions of the valuation threads. 1. Should I buy a watch I really want, knowing it may drop in value? 2. Should I buy a watch I don’t really want, knowing it might increase in value?

I’m oversimplifying, but personally I find #1 somewhat easier to understand.

[smym18]

I'm in charge of buying pre-owned watches in the jewelry store I work at and it can be brutal. People try to sell their Breitlings that they bought for $10k that are reselling for like $3k. I make a fair offer based on their market, then look like the bad guy because we can't buy someone's used watch for the price they paid for it. People expect to get like 90% back. It's crazy.

Then there's the people who think asking price on eBay is correlated to selling prices...

[c41006]

It really is understandable to an extent. People want to make the right choices when it comes to spending thousands of dollars. The people trying to keep their loss to a minimum if a time comes when they want to sell or flip for another piece is understandable but the people trying to actually make money have the wrong idea in my mind. Both types get a bit tiresome when it's the same thing thread after thread.

[Kyle3130]

Excellent post OP.

I agree with you that it has become a rampant topic and I feel that if value retention is your top priority as a buyer, you are in it for the wrong reasons. I bought my one and only Submariner 14060M after hunting for about a year. I didn’t hunt that long for the best “deal” so it would eventually go up in value, I bought it because it was the watch I wanted to buy at the price I thought it was worth at the time. For the last five years I have worn it like I stole it 24/7 and never thought about how much I could sell it for because I just love my watch. I will love/wear it for many years to come and hand it to my son one day when I think he has earned it.

[benlee]

Yes, most definitely. Sometimes reading some of the post here, I feel like I am reading an investment commentary on bloomberg about what shares to buy. This is actually unheathy as watches have intrinsic value which factors in their craftmanship and complication but now it’s like if the resale is bad, then a timepiece is not worth collecting because nobody likes to loose money.

On the other hand, this is a situation created by the Swiss watch industry. Most of these watches are not cheap by any means and inflating in value so people want to know that when comes the hour of need, they can be worth something. It’s frankly not wrong either.

[hchj]

Value retention is important... I’d be lying if I say i don’t care about it when making purchases. But value retention is not everything as mentioned by many others... I will probably never buy a Watch based on value retention alone.


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[Fleetlord]

Other than gamblers, I don't know anyone who likes the "thrill" of losing money...

Pride of ownership plays a huge role in this. People prefer to own collectibles that APPRECIATE in value and it's part of the hobby to speculate what will become more desirable and subsequently more "valuable"...like it or not, it just is. You think we're bad, you should see comic book collectors. Visit their forums. It's all about FOMO and the opposite, fear of taking a bath...there is very little discussion about the comic's storylines...most of the collectors never even read the book because it is in a sealed plastic slab with a condition grade on it. At least we wear our watches and use them to some degree.

It sucks to spend alotta money on something....that nobody else wants.

Imagine spending $30K on a Hublot @ full retail....people were doing that back in the day. Then they were horrified when their tastes changed or whatever reason, they went to sell it. They were offered like 25% of what they paid (if they were lucky). Is that a good feeling? It makes a person feel like a twit when what they own is not as desirable as they thought...that's why most people buy luxury goods such as watches (non WIS types), to separate themselves from the plebians buy owning expensive and desirable things....but if what they bought doesn't do that, they flushed their cash down the toilet.

SS Rolex watches don't have that problem. Thats why everyone wants one. "Your money is safe", to quote the great Vladdy.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by hchj

Value retention is important... I’d be lying if I say i don’t care about it when making purchases. But value retention is not everything as mentioned by many others... I will probably never buy a Watch based on value retention alone.


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yes... however value retention to me is not losing 50% when you move on to something different. Somehow value retention morphed into investment and price appreciation. Very different and that is what i dont like.

Value retention is fine IMO and is a consideration, but I dont expect to make money on any watch i sell, ever. That is where the shift has happened, as now, making money is the goal.

[Gaijin]

I think that we don't really have to worry about value retention anymore at all. Rolex has taken care of that by limiting supply. Unless you have a winder full of Datejusts you have nothing to worry about.


Love and own the Datejust by the way.

[Quailhunter]

I buy watches, cars, guns, tools, etc. based on their “smile factor”. If using them puts a smile on my face, I feel I have made a good buying decision.

I don’t buy things I cannot afford.... no smile. I don’t buy fad things... no smile. I don’t buy over priced things .... no smile. I don’t buy things i am afraid to use... no smile.

Somehow, following these rules has resulted in collections that seem to hold their value very well without that being a buying decision.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

The financial aspect of Rolex watches is, sadly, and in one one way or another, the most talked about around here these days.

Only second to the countless threads about people whining how they can't get watches, long wait lists, premiums by grey dealers, all the supposed flaws of Rolex design department etc. Hmmm would be nice to get back to focus on watches and hobby like years ago. The forum has definitely changed over the recent years with lots of new members and the focus has drastically shifted.

[RHJ]

I found this thread when I thought, it's time to mention, that someone here likes watches and the craftsmanship.
The DaytonaC-LVc-LNBR-BLRO-PPN-APRO-$Hype$ is reducing the discussion to less than twenty models out of millions : nothing to learn or explore anymore? I love the sentimental grail watch journey and the diving in the vintage ocean...

[Brew]

Some of us likely will never sell their watch(es). I own one Rolex and one Tudor. Neither will be sold be me, but I am somewhat interested in their current values nonetheless. I like to see that others still value my choices as much as I do.

[superstarmar]

Originally Posted by HL65

Only second to the countless threads about people whining how they can't get watches, long wait lists, premiums by grey dealers, all the supposed flaws of Rolex design department etc. Hmmm would be nice to get back to focus on watches and hobby like years ago. The forum has definitely changed over the recent years with lots of new members and the focus has drastically shifted.

Can it be shifted back?
Agree , lots of whining threads ...
My AD whom I’ve spent lots of $$$ with
treats me like a 2nd class citizen but it’s ok !
I understand, I’m not a VIP to them maybe .
Time to restructure my game plan if that’s how
things are going to be from now on and in reality
it’s not the end of the world , yet !!!
As someone said recently, as long as I have a shirt
and a sandwich I’m ok !!! Things are alright !!!